Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Dragon Ball Super
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WatcherZer
Posts: 301 |
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One way they could limit it to Earth characters would be if the rule was the homeworld of the losing combatents will be destroyed. I can quite imagine they would therefore maintain a fully Earth team so as not to risk other planets being destroyed. The threat of Earth being destroyed would also lure out some of the more reticent team members who wouldn't normally seek to compete in a tournament (Like Android 17).
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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I think 7/10 of universe 7's team (Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Buu, Piccolo, 17, and 18) are probably already the strongest 7 of that universe since Frieza during the Namek saga was considered the strongest in the universe previously and all other threats that they've faced were either just made or came from the future (the androids), in hibernation (Buu), comes from a different plane of existence than the living or Other world (Dabura), gods (Beerus and Zamasu/Goku Black), or recently had a lot of training (Frieza, Tagoma, possibly Shisami as well). Krillin and Tien are probably at least strong enough to match the level of Frieza's elite guards, so if there's time that could be spent finding anyone stronger it'd probably be more fruitful to just focus on making sure they're prepared and have trained a bit. Roshi's the most questionable, but at this point it's only one spot and compared to what they could find out in space you could probably better argue why him and not Yamcha, Goten, Trunks, or Chiaotzu. |
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WatcherZer
Posts: 301 |
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Goku did find plenty of other stronger fighters while he was in the afterlife though and they may well be living ones out there. The gods would be more knowledgeable. One of the other universes fighters in the ed looks to be a beefy version of whatever Jaco race is. And Jaco despite being a coward is arguably at least as strong as Krillin and only a low ranking cop leaving open the possibility of stronger cops.
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GhostD
Posts: 1037 |
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Based on the preview of the next ep things are gonna get more interesting. I've also been hoping to see Buu fight alongside the good guys and I didn't even see much of that in GT so Im hoping to see it here
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2417 |
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The afterlife was filler though so don't expect it to be recognized by Super. I don't think Jaco is anywhere near Krillin seeing as how he needs to rely on guns. I doubt there are any really strong cops either. The Saiyans were enough to conquer planets for Freeza. Freeza's henchmen were ruling by proxy for Freeza all over. All of those should be far weaker than Freeza's most elite unit the Ginyu force. |
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 962 |
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Low ranking cop? Jaco is a "super elite." Also, he's not "weak" seeing as how he was able to take out some of Frieza's henchmen in Resurrection F. He doesn't strike me as a coward, but rather he's someone who'd rather not get his hands messy or be bothered with combat. He's still able to do his job of busting heinous alien criminals, and didn't think twice about facing down the Great Saiyaman. Does this mean he could take down Golden Frieza? Absolutely not. But that also doesn't mean he has no fighting ability or aptitude. Also, while he may not be as strong as Krillin, Krillin has certainly gotten weaker as we saw a few weeks ago. So if anything they would be more even than if Krillin had continued training all this time. Also, why would the afterlife "filler" not be acknowledged? The Dragon Ball Super manga is specifically designed to be a compliment to the show, making the anime arguably more canon at this point.
Why would Master Roshi be questionable? He may not be the strongest fighter, but he's definitely the smartest. It's easy to get caught up in the power tiers of Dragon Ball, but time and again Dragon Ball proves that oftentimes it's not the strongest fighter who always wins. Plus, as the Universe 6 tournament showed us Goku and Vegeta are now having to come across people with different skill sets that can't be overcome with just raw power. Master Roshi is arguably the one I'm most excited to see on the roster, followed shortly after by Buu, 17, and Tien. |
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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The manga isn't subservient or whatever to the show. Both the anime and the manga are being overseen by Toriyama, and in recent weeks the Dragon Ball Room that's part of Shueisha, the company that publishes the manga, has also been having more control and oversight on the anime. This isn't like GT where it was Toei running it and their ideas like the Tuffles are the things driving the plot. The ones with the most oversight would be most familiar with the manga version. Heck, in the Great Saiyaman two parter, the crooks that Gohan dealt with and referenced beating up before with Videl never happened in the anime, only in the manga. And it's probably the reason why they retconned how the Potara earrings worked to bring back Vegito, who was from the manga, rather than just use the fusion dance and use Gogeta, a character that was only used in the 12th DBZ movie and the GT anime. Probably the closest way they're bringing an anime or movie character into Super is the whole Legendary Super Saiyan thing with that female fighter, and even then it seems like it's only the idea of their being a LSS form instead of just bringing in Broly. It's doubtful Goku and the others will even acknowledge Broly ever even existed. 2/3 of his movies don't even fit into the anime's continuity (all of them don't if you don't accept Goku and Gohan ever leaving their super saiyan forms during the break before the Cell Games).
I say questionable because I don't think most of the fighters would've normally thought to pick him before checking some of the stronger fighters they do know. And aside from learning the Mafuba to deal with Future Zamasu, they haven't exactly relied on Roshi for his smarts and techniques, nor has he been involved in combat, besides fighting off Frieza's grunts, since he died trying to seal away King Piccolo. I'm sure he will get his moments and help during the arc and they'll probably have some reasoning for why he joined the team, but that doesn't take away that he's probably one of the least expected fighters to join besides 17. And 17's more because no one's really acknowledged him since the whole Cell saga. |
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TranceLimit174
Posts: 962 |
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I didn't say it was subservient. Both Toei and Toyotaro/Shueisha work from the same outline Akira Toriyama gives them and they are allowed to make changes as they see fit. That said, this is a unique case where the anime is the primary product. So the manga acts as a complimentary and alternate way to enjoy the story that is Dragon Ball Super. Now as for those crooks, they in particular may have been manga only, but the event certainly happened in the DBZ anime. Not to mention, that 2-parter centered around Barry Kahn, a guy who I'm pretty sure is anime only and didn't get a panel. Anyway, this idea that it is out of the question that Toei wouldn't use a character like Pikkon is short-sighted. Not saying it's likely, but it's not an impossibility. I could take it further and say the reason Goku drives a tractor is because the series acknowledges he went to driving school. My point is, both the anime and manga are equally valid. As for Vegito, a more practical argument could be made that they didn't want to risk the inherent time limit of the Fusion Dance against Zamasu. People are still complaining about the Potara retcon, but I'll take Goku and Vegeta being too strong and badass for the Potara's magic to maintain its effect over magical Majin Buu body chemistry. Anyway, just because they don't use something, it doesn't mean they can't. Besides, until Super, Vegito had only 1 appearance to Gogeta's 2, so there are several other potential reasons as to why they went with Vegito aside from the idea that Gogeta's not manga canon.
Least expected? Absolutely. But that's very different from "questionable." As you stated, they recruited him to fight against Frieza's army so obviously they still respect his fighting prowess. Plus, there could be the idea that they want him there to observe and act as a head coach of sorts. No one will be able to see through a combatant's strategies and techniques better than Master Roshi. |
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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Not exactly since the scene with the crooks in the manga is where Videl figured out that Gohan was Saiyaman. This happened completely different in the anime, where she found out during a story where a guy in charge of a circus kidnapped a baby dinosaur.
Barry actually did appear in the manga. During the Buu saga, there was a scene where, after Buu had killed Babidi and was doing stuff on his own, Buu saw a handsome guy in a magazine, and tried copying his face in order to get a kiss. This scene was in the manga too, and the guy in the magazine is Barry Kahn, who was used fully in the Super anime, And it doesn't matter that the story arc in super was anime only because it's not even a major story arc, unlike the Universe Survival arc. It's filler.
Pikkon isn't valid because to revive him would require not only keeping that filler arc canon to the anime, but because the manga still follows the same plot lines, it would be forced to include Pikkon too in the universe 7 team or else the synergy between the two products would be very off. Like it would probably look confusing to have the anime advertise heavily one team of 10 fighters will be the stars of this arc, and then the manga uses a different team. And if Toriyama is giving outlines of the story arcs, and he wanted this to be the team, then I don't think Toei would argue against that line up in favor of their own picks.
Toriyama's drawn Goku being able to drive vehicles on tankoubon and chapter covers since very early on in Dragon Ball, before it even got to the Saiyan saga (in fact, that filler episode may be based on a couple of chapter covers made during the early part of the Namek saga which had Piccolo and Goku attending driving school and not doing well). Even in the beginning Goku was able to handle driving Bulma's motorcycle in the first chapter, and it's even canon in the manga's story that he can drive a car. The anime did not invent the idea of Goku knowing how to drive.
It's not something he's really done before, and they already have Piccolo who's kind of stepped into the role of being the smart, strategist of the team. My personal prediction is that while Goku's running low on people he can think of to join the team, Roshi volunteers just because he feels like it, and it's still at a point where Goku's keeping it a secret what happens to the losers so he can't really argue against Roshi joining in favor of someone stronger or else he looks suspicious. That or he originally wanted to see if Jackie Chun would join their team but winds up having to settle for Roshi, which I think would be a funny callback. Last edited by Marimo0 on Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8499 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I see a very real possibility that the "universe destruction" rule of the tournament is a lie concocted by Daishinkan (or by Whis and passed to Daishinkan) to teach Goku that his actions have consequences. None of the other teams seem particularly nervous, if they in fact know about the rule themselves. I would take a look at the next few episodes to see if any of the characters besides the ones who were told about the rule by either Daishinkan or Goku mention it or refer to it at all. If they don't, it's possible it's a lot like the lie Beerus made up about Monaka in the previous tournament arc to keep Goku from getting a big head.
It's too early to tell, however. |
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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The Grand Priest said that it wasn't announced to the others yet, so only the people at the Sacred World of the Kais and Gohan have heard about this. Though it will seem rather suspicious if they keep it a secret until really later on, like the finals. I expect at the latest it would be revealed after the first round of the Tournament of Power.
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TranceLimit174
Posts: 962 |
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Marimo0, my hats off to you for your Dragon Ball knowledge. Admittedly, I am not nearly as familiar with Dragon Ball in manga form and the reason I suspected Barry Kahn was anime only is because I couldn't find a screen cap of those corresponding panels. So on that and everything else, thank you for enlightening me.
I still say filler isn't completely off limits, at least for Dragon Ball Super's own "filler." But I get what you're saying in how even acknowledging filler characters could really screw things up when a high degree of synergy needs to be maintained. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing the other Kai's again, but since everything starts with Toriyama it's hard to conceive why he would use filler characters and it's easier to just not insert them when Toei does their own episodes.
I love this idea. It would be a very "Dragon Ball" way to get Master Roshi on the team, and Super has a penchant for these types of callbacks. As for where we're going, I know we already had the whole "What if Goku was a bad guy?" idea explored with the recent Future Trunks arc, but I still feel like we're gonna get another twist on this concept. In the sense that, as far as every other universe is concerned, Goku is the bad guy since he started this whole mess. So it will be interesting to see champions/heroes of other universes with this mindset taking on our heroes. I think this is also what's implied by Goku's smirk in the opening when he emerges from the red aura. I doubt it's some transformation back to base like many fans predict/want to believe, but rather signaling the perception that everyone else will have of him. Which of course, will only be amplified when Goku mops the floor with a few contenders. But honestly, with all the characters and gods in play there's so much that could potentially happen and the rules could change at any moment so how things develop from here is really anyone's guess. |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I'm suspicious about how everyone's keeping Goku from speaking to the Zen-chans and asking them about the rule directly. They are underestimating his relationship with them as someone who understands them on their (childish) level, and as someone they would listen to. Basically, I think he could easily convince them that eliminating universes isn't good for their long term prospects of amusement--you can't have any more fun tournaments if you kill off so many strong fighters! Goku's gonna talk to them, they're going to change their minds, and everyone will be bemused at how easy it is to get through to the most powerful beings in the universe if you relate to them plainly and stop cowering in fear.
That's not nearly as fun a conclusion as 9 universes fighting Goku as a villain, though, so that might happen first, and the mind-changing conversation will happen at the very end of the arc. Also, while I'm predicting stuff, I bet they'll be a dramatic scene in which Vegeta is forced to enter the tournament just as Bulma goes into labor, because that's how fictional scenarios like that always play out.  
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TranceLimit174
Posts: 962 |
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And this is why Dragon Ball is and always will be the shounen king. There's no fight like a Dragon Ball fight. As for the episode itself, it gave me everything I wanted from Majin Buu's fight. Also calling it now: Gohan's gonna win his fight but Goku will lose. But I'd like to think that Goku will lose because he's going to competely wreck his opponent, however because he ends the fight so quickly Zen-Oh is displeased because it wasn't exciting, so Goku is declared the loser. Either that, or the more typical Saiyan way would be Goku playing around with his opponent too much for too long. But because he didn't go all out, it gives Universe 9 a false sense of confidence while Goku then learns he's gotta step it up and can't screw around when the real tournament begins. |
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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Or maybe since they won 2 out of 3 fights, Universe 7 will be declared the winner of the exhibition match, leaving both Goku and the Zen-ohs unhappy that there isn't a third fight. However instead of one of universe 9's fighters trying against Goku, universe 11 offers to have a one-on-one match with Goku vs Toppo.
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