Forum - View topicHow Mari Okada Writes Mobile Suit Gundam
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 962 |
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I don't mean to come off as an elitist fan, and respect the author's personal enjoyment of IBO, but as a long-time fan of Gundam it really irks me to see Mari Okada get so much praise and attention for writing one of the worst series in the entire canon.
I also disagree with the premise that these elements prove that Mari Okada knows her Gundam. The masked man antagonist alone is practically a studio mandate. If she knew her Gundam, then the first season's plot wouldn't have moved with the pace of molasses and character deaths wouldn't have been matters of arbitrary convenience.Also, moreso than any other Gundam design the Barbatos itself translates poorly to animation. One of the major battles mid-way had choreography that was near indecipherable. I know Ms. Orsini has been getting a crash course in Gundam over the last 18 months or so given her various reviews, but any long-time fan will tell you that this series is awful. Anecdotally, I've spoken to many other seasoned fans, fair amount of strangers too, and while we will all concede that IBO is a decent anime on its own, as a Gundam series it is terrible. |
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Aezreal
 Posts: 30 |
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I appreciate the fact that the plot did move like molasses during the first season since in comparison with what I watched of Gundam beforehand, things always happened far earlier than I was able to empathize or feel anything for the characters in order to be invested. The slower pace did wonders for my enthusiasm for the show overall. This work stands as the most I've ever been into a Gundam story, and I enjoy it more when I don't place it beside all the other installments in the franchise. In my case that's actually because I had a poor time with them, and for others it can be the other way around.
Putting that aside, when Lauren mentions that Mikazuki has " a permanent injury ", I didn't expect this to veer into spoiler territory with what happened in season 1 - I simply believed it referred to his near complete lack of morality or emotions beyond very basic traits. When talking about Mikazuki and comparing him to those examples of characters, I feel like "stoic" doesn't do him justice; he's completely killed most of his emotions and become a functional sociopath for the most part, barring small interactions or anchors to the real world. I love that about him! He's not the kind of character I'd expect to find as the lead, and his personality speaks a lot to me about the actual conditioning of real-life child soldiers. There's no feeling of emotional breakthrough waiting to happen or a longing for a more normal life, a need to better understand people or empathy slowly developing for others. Beyond an attachment to his Tekkadan family and close figures from his childhood, he is a machine piece, oiled and efficient but devoid of certain key humanizing traits. |
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vonPeterhof
Posts: 729 |
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zztop
Posts: 650 |
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I recall a statement Okada Mari said once about how for her, writing drama is as easy as drinking water.
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meiam
Posts: 3448 |
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Honestly the show doesn't really work for me on an emotional level, I'm enjoying it greatly but pretty much solely based on the mecha porn (to be fair that's mostly why I watch most gundam, I find most of them are really not that great on the plot part).
The shows seems to be trying its best the suck any emotional investment I could have. spoiler[Death are so incredibly telegraphed weeks in advance that there not shocking when they happen, when Biscuit died I didn't think "Oh no, not Biscuit! The horror of war!" I just though "jee finally maybe we can stop with the death flag event". And this also remove the whole "horror of war" part because everyone else won't die, they didn't get there 3 episode lead up and death flag setting. This just remove any weight from the action, everyone will be fine except the people who are obviously setup to die, nothing is arbitrary or tragic, everything is planned and happen for a reason (ie cheap emotional thrill).] Same for spoiler[Mika injury, it would have been far more dramatic if he actually lost his limbs rather than just have them being paralyzed but conveniently still there and working (It's going to be such a shock when he get to use them again /s), once again it seems like there actively trying to undermine there own dramatic tension.] A few episode ago spoiler[Kudelia and Atra though it was a smart idea to stay in a city with a giant rampaging monster on its route assuring themselves that they'd be okay, turn out Tekadan didn't have control of the situation and that was a dumb move. But nevermind, neither of them had there obvious death flag, so instead a bunch of random no name character got killed and we never hear about them again. The farm was burned out but it didn't cause a food shortage. No impact, no tragedy. Even the character who jumped right in front of the attack was just fine, cause again he didn't trigger his death flag.] On the subject of Kudelia, are we actually suppose to accept she's in love with Mika. The far more interesting in interpretation is that she feel guilty in using him for her end when he's the results of the system she's trying to dismantle. So she stay with him and try to support him but at the same time can't really consider him as a normal human. Having her just be in love with him would be... boring. Plus she doesn't she any sign of that... This is all pretty annoying because the political side of the show is pretty solid... when they bother having it but most of the time they'd rather replace it by TEH FEELS! Second arc of the season was this war between two economic block (think Russia attack USA), what were the reasons and impacts? Who knows, instead we had two episode setting up death flag then the character with plot armor showed up and cleaned up the situation, we never heard about this incident again or any fallout. The show treated one character death as more important than two major nation actively going to war. [Edit]: added spoilers. Errinundra. |
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amagee
 Posts: 333 Location: Orlando, FL |
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If I may put in my two cents into the matter, I'd like to note that, as a fan of Gundam for 19 years, I love this series. It's a great Gundam series that touches on enough Gundam staples while being unique in its own right where it counts. Is it perfect? No. But I resent the idea that being a "long-time fan" means I mustn't like something. You and your relations may not like it, but don't drag the rest of us with you.
I think it'll be hard to make a final determination of this until we can see the blu-ray releases that have polished animation. Lots of shows with action scenes look a little janky in broadcast but get cleaned up well for the home video. Last edited by amagee on Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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I liked the Macross bar scene homage where they sit around the table talking about girls & sex (after getting off captain Harem's love-shark-boat), except they're all clueless virgins who don't know where to start. Probably reflects what it was like going out for staff drinks with the Sunrise production team. Hitler's bit part as an accountant was neat, too. |
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Suena
Posts: 289 |
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This was the first Gundam series I could last through more than 2 episodes. I think it's a valuable contribution for easing newcomers into the universe. After seeing the first season and getting the 'gist', I felt comfortable trying out some of the other series. So even if some seasoned fans don't enjoy it so much, I think it does help get people in the door who wouldn't have tried a Gundam series otherwise.
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toyNN
 Posts: 252 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I'm definitely a casual Gundam fan and watched about half of the many anime produced. I really like Iron Blooded Orphans, and as a casual fan had no idea Okada Mari wrote the screenplays. Love learning about that and understand better why its a bit different than other Gundam series. Can't wait for the series to continue.
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3768 |
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In addition to seconding amagee's sentiment, as someone who has been a Gundam fan for at least 6 years (I'd also seen G Gundam when I was younger), and watched all the TV series, and nearly every other entry in other formats (excluding compilation films), the idea that IBO is even close to the worst is risible. I could name three that far more fit the position of worst Gundam. And don't get me started on the regular dismissal of Lauren's credentials when it comes to the franchise. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean she doesn't know the franchise. Every damn time this happens. Enough is enough.
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Kicksville
 Posts: 1245 |
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Gundam shows, even ones fitting in the pre-existing UC timeline, are most of the time designed specifically to be welcoming to new fans. So it does not matter one way or another to a viewer whether a veteran fan thinks it is better or worse than any other Gundam show.
Now, I also certainly think it is not at all unfair for a Gundam fan to compare a Gundam show to the other Gundam shows - I mean, go figure - but, yeah, for someone who is enjoying a current show, I can understand bristling at seeing it get beaten up over a wider legacy that doesn't necessarily have to be known to enjoy anyway. Anyway, all that said, my opinion on IBO: For all the talk about human drama in this, I don't think it's been all that effective. It feels a little too obvious here how characters are pins being slowly moved around on the way to certain plot points, and while that is something that maybe a show can get away with, well...I don't think this one does. The pace in this show is, yes, pretty darn slow...and that would be fine. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, even up to the point of having consecutive episodes of nothing but people standing in a room talking (hey, I like Stand Alone Complex). But when characters talk in this show, they...recite platitudes to each other. Monologue to each other. Often the same stuff, over and over. We're family, we're bros, I don't mind taking shortcuts, I'll do anything you say...over and over and over. Not only does it take too long for things to happen, but on the way there, these characters don't feel especially human. I mean, they're like...fine, I guess? But it doesn't feel like there's much to them. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6275 |
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Those people sound like elitist snobs to be honest.
As someone who watched Char's Counterattack and Gundam Unicorn which had their fair share of abrupt and pointless deaths that felt hella cheap I'm fine with this. I'd rather have a character's death hinted at then just have it happen with no advance warning.
I don't see how that as dramatic spoiler[as him sacrificing use of his limbs to kill whatever enemy he's having immense trouble with especially since it's hinting at the fact that Mikazuki is willing to sacrifice his body along with his dream simply to help Orga realize his. Him losing his limbs is just as unnecessary as Kamille winding up in the state he wound up in at the end of Zeta Gundam.] You don't need to permanently handicap your main characters to create dramatic tension.
They did before the Mobile Armor temporarily took Mikazuki and Akihiro out of the fight. And Iok going out of his way to keep [expletive] things up their plans and making things worse because of his pride and stupidity.
Well to be fair they were nondescript civilians. And their deaths were simply to illustrate the threat level of mobile armors do to their specific targeting of humans..
I don't believe the agricultural center was stated to be the only place on Mars to be where food is being grown so course it getting destroyed wouldn't have lead to that.
Most of the mobile suits have special armor designed to reflect laser weapons something that was stated prior to the above scene so Ride not getting lasered in half shouldn't have come as any surprise.
...I haven't really gotten that impression especially when that's more applicable to Orga whose watching Mikazuki tear himself apart for him and Tekkadan. While the latter doesn't care even if it means he doesn't get to realize his own dreams. Naze mentions after the incident with the Mobile Armor that Orga seems to be rushing to accomplish his stated goal but it's yet to be revealed exactly why...with the above being the likely reason why. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3019 |
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I'm curious to know what these seasoned fans consider to be a good Gundam series. Do they consider Gundam Wing a good Gundam series? What about MS Igloo? Brave Battle Warriors? Destiny? Each of these shows is considered "great" by a different segment of the Gundam fanbase (and before you start in on Destiny, people, keep in mind that it's one of the top five highest grossing anime series of all time in Japan in terms of Bluray sales, so somebody obviously likes it). I've met several die-hard Gundam fans at cons who swear up and down that G Gundam is the best Gundam series ever, and plenty of others who prefer 08th MS Team or 0080. I've encountered just as many UC purists as fans who've recited lists of "the only Gundam shows that aren't horribly misogynistic". If you pop on over to TVTropes and you can see discussion threads filled with self-described Gundam fans arguing that Destiny is hundreds of times better than Zeta... and five years from now, there will be plenty of "seasoned fans" who think Orphans is the best Gundam show ever made. There has never been any sort of consensus among Gundam fans. |
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Topgunguy
 Posts: 258 |
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I'm still waiting to watch season 2 dubbed so I don't have a solid opinion on it yet. But so far the Bernstein is a very cliched and overly idealistic character. She's more naive than Relena and Cagalli but at least G Wing acknowledges it and deals with it and SEED (Destiny) gives Cagalli the verbal abuse she needed, courtesy of Shinn Asuka.
This series acts as though her beliefs are absolutely correct and seems to back her up all the way, so it feels very preachy. I'm expecting season 2 to turn that around. Also, what's the deal with Yamagi Gilmerton? |
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Ranemoraken
Posts: 139 |
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I'm not a fan of IBO, though I did finish it.
The narrative lacked no subtlety. Mikasuki, however, is distinct in his stoicism. He's not timid socially, or even all that awkward. He's a touch playful, aware of his stoicism to make for deadpan jokes. And he's ambitious, and practical. He really carries the show. But the plot points and characters are so blunt as to make a hammer blush. About the only surprise I got was going, "WOAH! Biscuit is BUFF as hell!" |
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