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REVIEW: Zegapain DVD 1


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LordPrometheus





PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:56 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
A couple of days ago Chris Gore from Film Threat mentioned on G4's Attack of the Show that Solty Rei is one of the greatest anime series of all time. He even compared Roy to Bruce Willis!


Wow, that's pretty high praise. Smile I got that same feeling about Roy; he reminded me very much of Bruce Willis.

One of the greatest of all time, huh? That's interesting, because I currently rank it as my third favorite anime, right behind FullMetal Alchemist and Gunslinger Girl. The show's "180" right in the middle just blew me away, and I love it when a show does that to me! Very Happy

lol, I guess I'm drifting off topic here. Razz
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Kaioshin_Sama



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 1215
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:56 pm Reply with quote
Westlo wrote:
Quote:
Yes, it does tell you something doesn't it, perhaps the fact that those scores are based on the WHOLE, not on the first 5 episodes?


Yeah people only rate shows when they're finished airing, Clannad isn't in the top 10 with 89 votes after only 3 out of 24 episodes have aired... *whistles*

Quote:
Some titles take up to 50% it's airtime before getting real


And a lot of titles manage to do this without being as crap and boring as Zegapain is.


First it was I'm the devil for pointing this out, and now your doing it yourself. What do they call this again..... oh right.
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daedelus



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 743
Location: Texas City, TX (ajd: 6/11/05)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:01 am Reply with quote
I bought this volume completely on a whim because it is a mecha show and because the box looks pretty cool too. I was going to watch it today, but time got away from me.

When something gets a glowing review, I tend to always agree with it. When something gets a bad review, I always decide to wait and judge for myself. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't.

With all of this response both positive and negative, I'm now really looking forward to watching.
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Buster Blader 126



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 1207
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:13 pm Reply with quote
Funny, I actually thought that the first few episodes were interesting enough, albeit nothing special. Though that's probably because it's very hard for me to find faults within the titles that I watch.

Though I have to agree that it gets MUCH more interesting at the half-way point, and it was at that point where I got really hooked into the series. So if anything, try lasting to the 2nd or 3rd volume first. Razz It's really a shame that I still haven't gotten around to finishing the last 5-6 episodes yet. Rolling Eyes

As with the Solty Rei review threads, it's going to be really interesting hearing others' thoughts about Zegapain. Perhaps we'll see the ratings increase by the time the next couple of volumes are released. Smile
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zetsuie



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 193
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:56 am Reply with quote
i previewed the first episode and i have to agree with reviewer it was boring and cliche and really i think they only put in mecha so they could sell models to gundam fans. I say that simply cause of how the first episode used them, cough cough boy instantly knows how to use his giant robot to fight enemies. WTF i have seen that like fifty times already. When will there be another good mecha anime on par with eurkea7.....oh wait I forgot there is 1 TTGL.. and i think it aired in the same timeslot as eureka two
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Westlo



Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 1684
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:05 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
There is really something wrong with this review. Zegapain is probably the most underrated series of 2006. The beginning is slow and not much interesting but later on it becomes NOTHING short than awesome.


How is there something wrong with the review when it reviews the part you yourself admit to being slow and uninteresting? A review of DVD 1 tends to review the episodes contained on that DVD, the rest of the series could be Gunbuster 4-6 amazing but it doesn't matter because the review is based on DVD 1.

As for most underrated, try The Third, Saiunkoku Monogatari & Simoun for starters....

Kaioshin_Sama wrote:
First it was I'm the devil for pointing this out, and now your doing it yourself. What do they call this again..... oh right.


Listen little kid, before you type your reply clutching a gundam model in your hands (cute pic I must admit) with tears streaming down your face realize one thing. Anyone with half a brain can tell the difference between what I typed and what you did. Need I remind you of the crap that came spewing out of your mouth?

Quote:
Pretty typical stuff for Kyoani anime. When I woke up in the morning to see it already in the Top 50 despite only one episode airing I said 2 things, "Only Kyoani fans would have the audacity to vote masterpiece for their beloved studios new show almost immediately" and two "Only ANN's system would allow them to get away with it". I agree something needs to be done about the system in general that will only open up the voting AFTER the anime has finished airing

That and the anime page now has two pictures since the Kyoani fanboys can't calm down and obey the one picture per anime rule as set out in the terms of use.


You're deluded if you honestly think that's anywhere near what I said lol Now go play somewhere I'm busy, shouldn't you be reading up on the Clannad game scripts so you can troll the episode 5 thread better? By the way grats on "pretending" to watch episode 4, maybe next time you shouldn't say something like the next episode needs to stop with the comedy when it's apparent to anyone with half a brain the next episode is going to be serious. I'm not even going to bother mentioning you getting emo and quitting on the show after episode 3.. oh wait..
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daedelus



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 743
Location: Texas City, TX (ajd: 6/11/05)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:22 am Reply with quote
Well, I finally watched this volume today and I seem to be in the extreme minority(based on the people who have posted in this thread,at least). I thoroughly enjoyed these episodes.

There's a bit of mystery to figure out. I like stories that have time/mind trips involved. The incidents with the clock in episode 2 is an example. There were quite a few laugh-out-loud moments too.

Is this EVA 2: The Second Coming? No, of course not. There is quite a bit of re-used footage in the various battles. I wasn't bored at all. In fact, I can't wait to see the next volume. This show does have a lot of potential, and I'm looking forward to seeing how everything plays out. Who knows? Maybe I'm just easy to please.

One of the best things of all is that I'm reminded of a certain Keanu Reeves trilogy. Wink
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Caiobrz



Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:23 am Reply with quote
Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
Normally, if you read 20% of a book, and you don't like the author's style or the characters or the plot, why the hell would you keep reading?


I agree, but that's where reviews come into focus, to tell you the first 20% suck but "keep going because it gets better". The whole point of a review is to tell you if something is worth or not for people who don't have a clue.

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
The review also mentioned the fact that the main characters are archetypes and that the plot is uninteresting.


Explain to me how one fifth of a whole can be enough to actually come with those labels. You cannot say the plot is uninteresting while it DID NOT EVEN START. These episodes, and actually the next 4~5, are more of a curtain-raiser for the characters and plot. Some anime takes even longer. You can curse all the way against these episodes, but a serious review MUST do it's homework into noting "it will get better" or "it keeps sucky this all the way to the end".

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
You're clearly biased because you've seen the whole series and think it's fabulous


You are only trying to dismiss my arguments with a personal attack that I'm biased. The ratings on the anime prove my point, people who watched the anime, even those who did not like it, agree it's unfair to judge it from only one fifth, and actually, common sense also dictates this one cannot judge a whole from part. A review, while judging the part, should make clear "things can get better or worse latter".

Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
The reviewer is rating these episodes, not the whole series, so give them a break.


Seriously? read on...

Zalis116 wrote:
Does ANN need to have a disclaimer, similar to the Season Previews, on every review saying "Disclaimer: This is only a review of the first X episodes of the series


No disclaimer is needed if the review is fit. If the review clearly denotes and judges only the FIRST DVD, anyone can realize that, but this is NOT the case, even with a disclamer, the reviewer is passing judgements on the whole.

I will now quote parts of the review, as W-general did, to discuss who the phrasing was unfortunate, making this review quite plain and unfair:

Review wrote:
In the eternal quest to keep the giant robot fresh (and profitable) it's amazing how few series strike upon the simple solution of telling a good story and instead opt for high-concept gimmicks....


The reviewer is judging and ranting about the PLOT and STORY, not the first episodes. It CLEARLY gives a bad impression for the whole anime, not just the DVD.

You cannot judge a PLOT from only the BEGGINING. We all know a PLOT have a beginning, development, and conclusion, and most people tend to rate a PLOT from the development and/or conclusion, seldom the beginning, which as I mentioned, is often slow paced and only a curtain-raiser (true some are cool action packed, but again, that does not mean anything. Some anime start off amazingly only to die later on).

Suggested phrasing would be: These early episodes leaves us hoping for a better plot and story that so far is shown, or this would be just a [place original here].

Review wrote:
...and characters that are such nonentities that they don't even serve as plot devices.


Character development per se takes several episodes in any form of work, if not all the way to the end, to be portraied and displayed. How can the reviewer, again, judge and conclude they don't serve a plot device if the early episodes are only INTRODUCING the characters and enviroment IN WHICH the plot WILL take place?

Review wrote:
...and the remaining cast members have stock personalities so thin they're transparent.


Again, with so few episodes some people might not even memorize their names, how can you say they have stock personalities if they didn't even SHOW ANY PERSONALITY AT ALL? Judging the whole, from part, again. Everything have a starting point!

Review wrote:
...The concept itself has been beaten to death (and then flogged some more), and the answer to the question is so glaringly obvious (just ask yourself which option offers easy drama) that it doesn't even warrant a thought.


Any veteran knows that almost everything out there have similar concepts to older series, the "this is copy of that" is quite useless as a review argument since what really matters is how it is delivered during the series, the characters, and how it manages to reach to the end. I bet a lot of people here know "EVA-like" animes that are far better than EVA. ANY plot would look empty and pointless if you watch only a fifth of it, after all, with only these, you can't see the development, let alone guess the ending.

Review wrote:
That excursions in Zegapain involve overly simplistic missions and the same three types of enemy mecha being destroyed in the exact same ways (complete with repeated animation) doesn't help much...


True, but forgot to mention that this is where they are only introducing the concepts of the anime, which will later be used for the main plot. Although not really judging, it's also clearly giving off signals about how weak the whole supposedly is. Again hoping for things to get better, or it the reviewer knew this was going to happen, would help a lot the review be unbiased.

Review wrote:
Zegapain doesn't even deserve the epithet "escapism." In order to be escapism there needs to be something there to escape into;


Can anyone really say this is not a judgement of the WHOLE series, not the first fifth? I for one would NEVER even try buying this DVD or any other from this conclusion.

(end review quotings)

Zalis116 wrote:
I didn't see this as a "poor attempt of a review" because I felt that Carl backed up his opinions with solid evidence from the episodes on the disc


What arguments? as I mentioned, any argument pertaining to the whole plot or how the characters are developed from their early stock personalities at this point is, well, pointless. ALL characters start with a "stock personalities", and only than we can see if the title will do a good or weak job on moving away from it.

Zalis166 wrote:
But when it comes down to a decision to buy the initial DVDs, I'm more apt to trust the pros' reviews.


Pro review!? I work under the assumption that every opinion counts but, in the end, it's your own judgement that is important. I have read reviews far more insightful and unbiased about Zegapain, from non-Pros (?), than this review. There is NO SUCH THING as a Professional reviewer. It might be a profession, but it does not make your opinion more worth than the guy next door, as long as he can convey his emotions/feelings on a title properly. It's the same as saying there is "Pro' writers" ... anyone with a good mindset can write a book ... or ... a review.

Experienced reviewer might be a better phrasing Wink

zetsuie wrote:
i previewed the first episode and i have to agree with reviewer it was boring and cliche and really i think they only put in mecha so they could sell models to gundam fans. I say that simply cause of how the first episode used them, cough cough boy instantly knows how to use his giant robot to fight enemies.


^___^ if I told you there is a solid reason why guy knows how to pilot mecha this time, what would you say? Also, what if there wasn't, what if the point of the series were not mecha fights but a plot or character driven storytelling? would that really matter than?
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:45 am Reply with quote
There is no common thread for this anime, so this thread is perfectly fine.

After watching four episodes, I have to say the show is mostly embarrassing so far:

1) the setting almost beaten to death cliché,
2) the fights are boring,
3) The mecha design is bad and weird spoiler[why huge green d*cks on the chest? Do not get me wrong, I am not against mecha having giant green d*cks, but the placement is strange. Laughing],
4) main red hair hero is said to excel at studying, but this boldly contradicts to his depiction and behaviour in this anime: he is empty-head,
5) the grey-haired boy is supposedly super pro, but needs saving three times in row,
6) and the grey haired guy spoiler[beats red hair guy for no reason (the grey one knows the red is clueless and means no harm by his comment)] -- he is disgusting character for that.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:21 am Reply with quote
Addition after watching up to eighth episode:

7) main hero has a friend that is girl, but this is unlikely unless he is gay -- boys and girls usually have drastically different interests and thus mostly group with their own kind -- and yet he shows affection towards a girls. I am not against gays (even more: if the character was gay it would be less of a cliché) but authors have to create realistic characters so viewers could empathise with them. For that, characters have to be believable;
8) main "genius" hero is as clueless empty-head as ever; not only that, he is outright dumb, the show spends several annoying episodes of fake drama to crack his thick skull with some basic or otherwise easily deductible truths about the reality -- this is where you start to hate the character. He is useless pathetic stupid weak-minded hysterical wuss you can not stand;
9) commander of the airship is depicted making orders with his hand theatrically reaching out;
10) one of female characters has a cockroach hairstyle (paired antenna), and it looks as horrible as ever;
11) animation is not crooked, but very plane and cheap; chins do not move when characters talk.

Points like ##7 and 8 I care the most because they always expose how artificial the story is.

Up to episode sixth, I was at complete loss why this anime has "Very good" rating. However, there was a little bit of idea since then, so the show is not complete waste.

By eleventh episode, even though exposed concept makes no sense spoiler[there is always ways to story copy of data, and transmission is always lossless since there is protocol that calculates control sum and resends portions of data if they were transmitted wrong], there was piece of believable drama, which raises the level of this project.


EVENTUALLY, AFTER ALL EPISODES: this anime suffers from rigid 24-26 episodes syndrome. There are some interesting things in it, but significant portion of this project is dreadful because authors could not make it, say, 18 episodes long instead of 26. Overall rating is "Good".
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