Forum - View topicBleach Manga Enters 'Climax' In 2 Chapters
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theNightster
Posts: 1328 |
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I'm going to say that the 1000 year blood war is kind of like the Mass effect 3 of manga arcs, it was great but the ending sucks, oh well at least it was still better the Naruto's shinobi war arc, that shit was nothing but plot holes and recons every single chapter,spoiler[ (and at least Bleach was consistent on who it's final villain was instead of replacing him 3 times)]
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6267 |
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Everything I've read about this arc pretty much makes it seem like it has some of those same problems that people had with Naruto's final arc....with the added addition of a few asspulls and dropped plotlines.
And only took about four arcs for them to settle on a guy who was never mentioned at any point prior in this series prior to this arc and of course has to have incredibly broken powers that can only be counteracted through confusing circumstances.spoiler[At least Madara & Kaguya were mentioned long before they showed up in the final arc unlike Ywach.] |
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LightYapper
 Posts: 131 Location: Somewhere on Earth |
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And the riot goes on and on... I don't want to say anything about this sudden ending at first, but it looks as if some people are making a big deal out of this. At least to me, Jump made an "ok" choice for this ex-masterpiece. Whether they did so with Kubo's approval... that definitely is debatable, though, as they didn't even bother giving Bleach any special treatment from what I've heard here.
Still, I personally think Bleach is far better than Fairy Tail overall, I mean, it seems Mashima is attempting to do the same thing as Kubo but the end result ended up worse than everything so far.
Well, Ywach does feel more like a tacked in antagonist compared to Aizen and most Naruto antagonists. Wonder if Kubo has planned the whole final arc at all? 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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According to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/2lovph/shueisha_editor_bleach_is_at_its_climax_but_not/ Shueisha editors thought Bleach was coming to a climax (but not quite ending yet) over a year and a half ago. It was also WELL established that this was the final arc, with even Kubo announcing that BEFORE it started. If WSJ was so against Bleach ending, I don't think that announcement gets made. From all indications Shueisha was MORE than fair with Kubo, giving him 4+ years to "end it how he wanted" and he decided to screw around. I mean, seriously, 4 years should be sufficient to make a good ending for a WEEKLY series. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5528 Location: Mexico |
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^Kubo had also said since the end of the Arrancar arc that he planned to do two more arcs: a short one that would last a year (so the claims that the FB arc was cut short by the editors are pretty baseless, it was never intended to be long), then a final long one that would last five years. The editors knew this from the start. At any given point they could've told him "you know what no one wants to see that stupid chicken/hand/insert whichever really long pointless fight there was anymore cut that shit already" or "you should step up the pace because the EIC is running out of patience". But the change of pace is so brutally obvious there's no way they actually told him more than four weeks in advance that he would have to wrap it up by the anniversary. And even at the sluggish pace they were going, Bleach would've ended by December especially after spoiler[Haschwalth and Gerard were eliminated] They could've easily given it four more months to reach a natural conclusion instead of suddenly axing it when it was already so close to the end
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Black Turtle
 Posts: 110 |
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But seriously are you even surprised? The fight were so annoying. Every ennemy was in the verge of losing 4 time a fight, before getting a power up out of his ass. And every quincy power was ridiculously god level. It was annoying and uninteresting.Bleach had expired and even if it was axed, it deserved it.
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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And this has lasted 4 and a half years. Accounting for some changeability Kubo has had enough time on this arc to end it, but he paced it so badly this is the end result. Also, you seem to be under the impression that they owe Bleach something at this point. If this was any other series, that was constantly ranking low in the popularity polls like Bleach was (mostly out of the top 10) then they wouldn't have given it this long to end. By all accounts, they have been generous with Kubo by giving him a long final arc to end off with, compare this to Nisekoi and Bleach's final arc is nearly as long as the entire series itself! Eventually, they are going to get tired of it, and eventually they're going to tell him he has 5 chapters to wrap this up. And you can see this in the manga, were the pacing has increased - more has happened these last 5 chapters than the 50 before them. I see a lot of people whining that WSJ is "being disrespectful" to Bleach, but really, quite the opposite was true. Their readership, which is who they have to market to, was telling them through the polls that they didn't really care for Bleach any more, but out of respect for the remaining fans and Kubo they gave him enough time to write a big arc and give it a satisfactory ending. 200+ chapters is more than enough. People complain that they aren't just giving him another 4 months worth of chapters without even acknowledging that they've already given him more than they needed to in order to end the series. Where does it end? If they gave him another 4 months, what's to say Kubo doesn't continue to pace his series poorly to stretch it out. Once those 4 months are up, and he still hasn't gotten close to ending it off, what's next? Another 4 months? Kubo must have known this was coming. He knew what he was doing, and he knew eventually they were going to pull the plug and tell him he has to wrap this up now. If Kubo is unable to write an arc after over 4 and a half years and more than 200 chapters that wraps his story up competently, then frankly the issue lies with Kubo, not WSJ. To put this into context, the entirety of Death Note is 108 chapters. Kubo has had nearly twice that amount on the last chapter alone. |
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Nonaka Machine Gun B
 Posts: 825 |
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I'm less inclined to believe Kubo is being rushed to an ending because it seems to be the same people who whine about literally every story point anyway. Is it really being rushed, or do you(a general you, not any one user here) just not like it? I see a bunch of posts about Kubo "wasting time" and it reeks of people who wouldn't be satisfied no matter when or how it ended.
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Black Turtle
Posts: 110 |
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The final boss is clearly rushed. Especially if you know it's only one chapter left. But not knowing that when I read it, I just thought there would be other - I'm beaten - I was kidding - Now I'm beaten - Still kidding. I mean it, feels rushed when you know you had the whole extent of the final fight. Not knowing it, it just like regular fight in bleach, you just feel like we're not to the end of the fight yet. about wasting time, well, yes and no. If he knew his manga was not doing well, and knew he was planned to be cut, he could have easily shortened some fight without them feeling axed (the ice kid, rukia brother and Kenpachi fight against the big guy was way to long for its own good). In the other case it looks looks like what happened since the end of soul society. battle that tend to be stupidly long, because of the little narrative content in his chapters. handled differently with the exact same story, he could have finished by now, with a end that wouldn't have shocked anyone. The question in the end is did he knew and handled his story telling poorly, or did he thought he had time and took his time, and when the date fell, he was like wait? It's an answer we'll never have. Anyway, even in the second case, I think kubo should have known his manga wasn't selling so well anymore, and wasn't badly put in polls, and that being a former best seller of the magazine wouldn't have granted him an eternal freepass. It's not black and white in here, as some seems to say. Maybe the date wasn't known, but even without the date, kubo should have handled his storytelling better. |
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Banken
Posts: 1281 |
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Has anyone given two shits about Bleach since Aizen was defeated in the anime version?
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Nakurawari
 Posts: 265 Location: Ireland |
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While WSJ are to blame for the ending being rushed, it's also Kubo's fault for wasting so much time. For me, even if Kubo wasn't forcefully rushed, this arc was already on a collision course. The arc started so well but took a huge nosedive around 60 chapters in. I honestly wish it had ended with the Arancar arc at this point. Sure, I don't like the fact that Aizen was taken out by an asspull... but at least it was cool and had impact. This current arc is just a mess, rushed ending or not.
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CrowLia
Posts: 5528 Location: Mexico |
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My issue with people saying Kubo deserved it for wasting so much time is that the editors allowed him to. Once they saw the popularity was not rising, they could've told him to change the pace, they could've told him this wasn't working, they could've told him "if you continue like this you'll be at risk in the next series meeting" but they let him drag sluggishly for years. Kubo doesn't do whatever he wants, he has an editor that is supposed to help make the manga better. Once more, they could've easily given him four more months -there were no more enemies left, so he could focus on tying up loose ends and giving the final boss the cool fight he wanted- and let it have a dignified ending, instead, it seems like straight sabotage to kill the series like this when it was already close to its end. It's not like the popularity had dropped any further, and the volume sales were more or less steady. Why not kill Toriko which doesn't really rank high and sells even more mediocre? People who read that agree that it's also being rushed to a conclusion/cancellation.
And I'll say WSJ does owe Bleach at least the minimum respect. I mean, Kochikame has been going for years, always bottom of the rank, selling like shit for a WSJ series and it's getting its 40 year anniversary celebration and commemoration anime. Bleach, which was a flagship series for a full decade and has still been selling around half a million copies per volume, doesn't even get the cover and opening color pages for its finale and 15th anniversary. Heck, even Nisekoi is getting an extended final chapter, and Bleach apparently isn't. If that doesn't speak about the magazine completely spiting the manga and trying to bury it as hard as they can, I don't know what does. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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We have no proof that they DIDN'T do this. Maybe Kubo just thought they'd still let him do it ANYWAY. Maybe his editor cried wolf earlier in the run. Maybe (like Fruits Basket and Kodocha imply for some people) he tried to dodge/ignore his editor. I see no reason to assume this was a "sudden surprise" from Shueisha.
Who's to say Kubo wouldn't stretch it out even THEN?!? I'll point out that as recently as 5 weeks ago (when it was OFFICIALLY announced, so even if they never told Kubo ANYTHING it would have shown in the magazine, that it was ending in "weeks") the story STILL has YWach screwing around and Ichigo "not using full power" and other Quincies still fighting. If Kubo told JUMP he needed 5 years to finish this story and this plodding mess that wastes a bunch of chapters is what they've gotten for 4.5, then I would not blame them for losing faith and saying "screw this". If Kubo had 5, he should've plotted for 4/4.5 and threw in some fanservice at the end if he got extra. Instead, if he told them 5, he had 3-4 years of content and padded it out to try to fill the 5. THAT is on Kubo. Also, while I admit I don't know JUMP's schedule, I DO know New Years is a BIG deal in Japan, so if they told him to "wrap it up" this year, I would expect that this timeframe was always the target so they can launch a new series in summer, or fall at latest, since you're not gonna launch something new over the new years (when everyone takes holiday and visits family). |
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Divineking
 Posts: 1297 |
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To some of the above posts, from my understanding, JUMP generally gives authors a bare minimum 8 weeks notice of cancellation (unless it's a new series that tanked so badly that it's cut after having a volume's worth of material but that's an extreme rarity) so combined with the earlier announcement about the final volume, Kubo's known for at least a couple of months that he needed to wrap things up. Yet in spite of that he still seemed to be taking his time with the earlier part of this fight, so if we end up with a ridiculous conclusion he's certainly not blameless.
Last edited by Divineking on Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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WSJ just can't win can they? If they started to tell him to speed it up, there would be an outcry of how they sabotaged the series by forcing Kubo to write what they want him to write and the pace they want him to. Instead, they said to Kubo he has one nice long arc, make the most of it, and he hasn't. This isn't a recent thing. Kubo has been dragging this out for years, it took nearly 100 chapters (or at least it certainly felt like it) for Ichigo to appear at his destination once again and then as soon as he got there he got thrown back down and had to climb back up all over again. There has been so much padding in this arc it probably is more padded than it contains actual story content. WSJ were pretty hands-off here, and Kubo, instead of making the most of it to give his series the ending it deserves, decided to drag it out as much as he could. So now, WSJ have finally told him to wrap it up, and this is the end result.
Again with this "why not just give him more" argument. What's to say if they give him another 4 months he drags it out again? What then? Give him another 4 months? For all we know, WSJ may have been telling him for ages to start wrapping it up, and he kept dragging it out, there's no reason to assume they just decided one day to end Bleach. This has obviously been long in the making, and Kubo would have known this. Bleach ranks low in the weekly popularity polls, and as I said above, if this was any other series, bar One Piece, it would have been cancelled with these popularity ratings long before it has been. It is a business after all, and WSJ will be wanted to put new series in hoping one or two stick. Bleach is going nowhere, and it's filling a spot another series could be taking and doing better in. Just because it's being steady doesn't mean they should just let Kubo carry on until he gets bored.
I don't read Toriko, but if I've understood you right didn't you just say it was being rushed? Wouldn't that then mean that they are killing it? |
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