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FenixFiesta
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 3:19 pm
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Quote: | The biggest western imports of the genre as of recent years are Steven Universe and Star VS. the Forces of Evil. |
Wouldn't the biggest of the Western MG expies be MLP:Friendship is Magic, the only thing missing is over transformations and regular monster of the week events but otherwise the tone and whimsical nature is certainly in line with retro magical girl set ups.
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Stuart Smith
Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 3:47 pm
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angelmcazares wrote: | Strictly focusing on North American fandom, is the magical girls genre that popular? |
Not really, no. To most viewers Sailor Moon and Madoka are the only magical girl series they know. The genre never caught on in America like in other parts of the world. There's been dozens of series but very few have reached America, and even fewer were properly translated. Cardcaptors, Mew Mew Power, and Magical Doremi all had terrible dubs and all of them were cut short because they weren't popular and they didn't finish. Glitter Force on Netflix is the only real recent one and I have no idea how that's doing for them. If the magical girl series is for otaku it might get licensed, but all the ones for actual little girls generally get ignored because of the whole 'girls don't watch cartoons' thing.
Darkabomination wrote: | The biggest western imports of the genre as of recent years are Steven Universe and Star VS. the Forces of Evil. The former ditching most of the traditional aspects of "girls" and changing forms, but having the empowering females and personal relationships in spades and the main male character being the more traditional type |
I wouldn't really call either of those magical girl series, but then again I've never been fond of the whole "X is just like Y, except for A, B, and C" argument. Steven Universe feels like a superhero or alien show more than anything else, like Ben 10. I find execution is extremely important when trying to define these things. For one thing having a male main character would never happen in a magical girl show, nor would a male costar like in Star VS. It takes away focus from the girls, especially in cases where Stephen saves the day a lot of the time which kind of undermines the female characters. Unfortunately male characters are required for a show to appeal to male demographics, so you can never have a truly all female cast herd. W.I.T.C.H suffered the same kind of treatment with unnecessary male characters because market testing back in the day despite the comic being all female.
-Stuart Smith
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5498
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:16 pm
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Quote: | Sailor Moon's major innovation came from making magical girls into superheroes. Prior to that, magical girl shows post-Princess Knight downplayed the fighting and functioned more like sitcoms. Their magical powers resembled the antics of Steve Urkel in Family Matters – an excuse for crazy stuff to exacerbates the episode's social conflict. While they were often still princesses, magical girls dealt with schoolyard problems more often than actual threats. They'd use their powers to go out with boys or live double lives as pop stars. |
LOL What? who wrote this. There was a show nearly 20 years before Sailor Moon that blended Magical Girls and tokusatsu.
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FireChick
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Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 2476
Location: United States
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:27 pm
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I like several magical girl anime, with my favorites being Fancy Lala, Heartcatch Precure, Nurse Angel Ririka SOS, and a couple others. I don't find myself being attached to Card Captor Sakura as much, but I like it, and even own the whole series on Blu-Ray and the two movies.
I pretty much agree with everything otagiri says here.
Quote: | I like MG shows because they depict females as humans with actual ideas and ambitions in life, other than to be attractive to males, be in a relationship, get married and have kids. Because lets face it, even in the 21st century western world the apparent decent woman should be sexually attractive and hold snagging a man and family as the ultimate priority in life.
Women who prioritize careers or other activities are depicted as frigid, antisocial and cold.
In the idealized world of anime where the focus is on female characters, they appear to have goals, overcome personal challenges, help each other, the community and the world. Most of the shows pass the Bechdel test. |
However, at the same time, I found a Tumblr post saying that magical girl anime, while considered feminist by Western standards, are actually made to make little girls conform to very strict gender roles (Granted, I don't know how true that article is, and the post is littered with the OP cursing the living heck out of the person they're attacking, and I can't find myself taking it seriously because of that), enforcing the "girls have to be beautiful, sweet, demure, and love boys" ideal by presenting girliness as a strength. Apparently, the Japanese view feminism as not focusing on presenting either masculinity or femininity as a strength. But I only heard this from TVTropes and a Tumblr post, so don't take my word for it.
Even so, I still like some magical girl anime. I did have some bad experiences with the Precure fandom, so I'm staying away from Precure for a while.
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FenixFiesta
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:42 pm
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MarshalBanana wrote: | LOL What? who wrote this. There was a show nearly 20 years before Sailor Moon that blended Magical Girls and tokusatsu. |
if you are assumably referring to say Cutie Honey or some other earlier series, then Sailormoon is hands down the first wide audience received anime of a Magical girl series that features active combat in some form at least for general broadcast television in the West.
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magvis
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 47
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:06 pm
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I feel that this was probably the defining shift in magical girl shows. For the first time, and from the beginning, the "bad guys" were trying to kill her, not just work around her. When the boy she had a crush on almost did kill her (for reasons I won't spoil here) well, it was an especially emotional moment.
This show didn't leave out the guys, there was just the one magical girl. Equally poignant as the above was the time when her two male compatriots came up with a desperate plan to save her. On their way there one asks the other what happens after the plan succeeds. The answer was a succinct: "We die." His partner answered: "Good plan".
I have it on good authority from my friends in Japan that after the next to last episode was broadcast "schoolgirls all over Japan cried for a week". They expected Ririka to die. Heck, RIRIKA was positive that she was going to die in the final episode. What happened I won't say, but it was pretty cool.
I don't doubt that if Ririka hadn't blazed the trail, Madoka would never have been made.
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Dextres
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 428
Location: Decatur, GA
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:55 pm
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Excellent article!
On to your question:
Quote: | So why do you love magical girls? |
To me, as a guy, It's the fantasy and escapism that comes with adventures. Shows like Cardcaptor, Princess Yucie and eventually Sailor Moon pull me in their world and it was just interesting seeing a new perspective different from what I knew in the real world.
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AnimeLordLuis
Joined: 27 Jan 2015
Posts: 1626
Location: The Borderlands of Pandora
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:01 pm
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I believe that Magical Girls shows are popular because they are different instead of focusing on a single character you have about five or more to draw attention to each with their own unique background story and key features and let's face it we all have our favorites in each series.
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CrowLia
Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5528
Location: Mexico
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:23 pm
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Quote: | While Usagi's relationship with the hunky but useless Tuxedo Mask is still a big part of Sailor Moon, most of what I remember from watching the show as a kid were her interactions with her fellow Senshi. With their playful bickering, the Senshi acted like a real group of school-aged girlfriends. |
I wonder if Gabriella continued to watch Crystal after she stopped doing the Daily Reviews for it, because even in this "improved" third season, Usagi's romance with Mamoru is the focus of most of the stuff that happens, while we only know the girls and Usagi are friends because we're vaguely told about it, neve really seeing how that friendship is earned or developped. It's a major disappointment
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4446
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:41 pm
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FenixFiesta wrote: | an intriguing part of magical girls is that in the genre you can sometimes get away without needing "magic" per say (ala AKB0048/Macross Delta levels of Tech) and sometimes they don't have to be strictly girls (Ore, Twintail ni Narimasu) and then you have cases where a show is about a Card Game and still delves into the realm of Magical Girl genre (Wixoss, Fantasista Doll).
That said, it is saddening that the current staple of Magical Girl genre Precure just barely recently got a form of a release in the form of Glitter Force for the Smile season of Precure, the only prior release was a regional English release of the Futari wa season which still premiered years after the source series Japan debut. |
which in itself is a complete abomination to the entire precure series. if it wasnt for the successful showing of seven deadly sins, the otaku community would be pegging netflix as the second coming of the horror that is 4kids since that hacked up dub version they gave for the smile precure series is things that was tolerated in the 90's. the only thing they succeed with that is attracting 7-12 young girls while the rest of the otaku community that make the series popular in the first place will stick to its sub version on crunchyroll.
Quote: | Magical girl shows for an adult audience, like Madoka and Yuki Yuna, often don't feature male love interests at all. Instead, there's the implication of a deep partnership (or even more) between the girls themselves. |
not quite. while the yuri romance of uranus and neptune was the original in the magical girl genre,but what re triggered the staplepoint for this was the nanoha series and the very close relationship between nanoha takamachi and fate testarossa. in a way,it kind of pegged the way for madoka and yuki yuna to explore the yuri romance as the storyline. and from the looks of things, its the only thing fans of the genre wants right now,since its starting to look like fate/kaleid prisma illya will be going down the same road and explore the whole yuri romance as well.
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2266
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:30 pm
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Heishi wrote: | I would love to see a magical girl series that is actually yuri.
There is something interesting about magical girls... |
lebrel wrote: | I can't offhand think of any female-targeted magical girl series that focus on girl-girl couples as the primary romantic relationships; anyone else know of any? |
Revolutionary Girl Utena? Not quite magical girl, but it has strong magical girl leanings. Pretty much staunchly set out to be "for girls" as it was pitched as a shoujo manga show (according to the director notes) and ran in a family-friendly prime time slot, despite, well, just about everything about that show. ^^;
I do feel that the blurb for this article is somewhat misleading, in that despite saying magical girls appeal to audiences of all types, it's mostly a focus on what it does for girls and adults. Not saying that's a bad thing--I feel like anime in general is so heavily marketed towards the "default" otaku (assumed to be male by the marketing department, I guess), that it's nice to see an article about why magical girls are appealing to those who lie outside the majority market.
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Just-another-face
Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:43 pm
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Quote: | Although the sitcom relationship is even more convoluted – magical girls were inspired by a Japanese dub of Bewitched. |
Is that like saying if it wasn't for our old black and white sitcom, the magical girl genre would never have taken off like it did in the early days?
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KH91
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 6176
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 9:28 pm
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invalidname wrote: |
Quote: | Magical girl shows for an adult audience, like Madoka and Yuki Yuna, often don't feature male love interests at all |
Or male anything. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there are any lines spoken by male characters in all of Yuki Yuna Is A Hero. |
Wasn't there a male doctor in Yuki Yuna that gave the condition to one of the characters in a flashback or something.
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Cyclone1993
Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 947
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:31 pm
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Interesting and as far as I can tell, accurate article. But it does make me wonder if something like this could be done for why so many men like magical girl shows, especially since usually they can't relate to it. I love the magical girl genre and I know a lot of other guys who do, I just wonder why they catch on with guys so well as well. I think there's a lot more to it than just having cute girls. But an attraction to the genre might be different than an attraction to certain shows in the genre.
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WingKing
Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 617
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Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:33 pm
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jr240483 wrote: | not quite. while the yuri romance of uranus and neptune was the original in the magical girl genre,but what re triggered the staplepoint for this was the nanoha series and the very close relationship between nanoha takamachi and fate testarossa. in a way,it kind of pegged the way for madoka and yuki yuna to explore the yuri romance as the storyline. and from the looks of things, its the only thing fans of the genre wants right now,since its starting to look like fate/kaleid prisma illya will be going down the same road and explore the whole yuri romance as well. |
I agree that Nanoha's had a lasting impact in that regard, but you can also point to Mai-Hime/Otome for helping push things in that direction too. That franchise's stock has plummeted over the years, so it's easy to forget how popular it was for a while in the mid-2000s (or that there was a time when people brought it up regularly in "best magical girl ever" conversations). The first time I watched Madoka, I immediately saw callbacks to both Mai-Hime and Nanoha in the first episode. Anyway, Mai-Hime came out the same season as Nanoha (Fall 2004) and had several relationships with a pretty clear yuri subtext, while Mai-Otome in 2005 went even further and pretty much dropped the "subtext" qualifier entirely. Meanwhile, Nanoha/Fate, though the earlier seasons definitely lay the groundwork for it, didn't really become a firm ship until StrikerS premiered in 2007 (and I remember there were still plenty of Nanoha/Chrono shippers at the time who weren't very happy).
Quote: | Wasn't there a male doctor in Yuki Yuna that gave the condition to one of the characters in a flashback or something. |
Don't remember a male doctor, but I think they might've had a male teacher in one episode. The biggest male role, though, was Karin's fairy ("All things must pass!").
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