Forum - View topicINTEREST: Controversial Artist Rokudenashiko Found Guilty on Obscenity Charge
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Lolicon isn't a good example because the root reason for people being arrested over it is because of its association with child pornography. What Rokudenashiko is doing has absolutely no child pornography association to it. There are "obscenity" laws, particularly in southern states (and on a county by county basis if they exist at all) which do things like outlaw the sales of sex toys unless you have a doctor's note, and they're ridiculous, and very rarely brought to court because they wouldn't hold up with Federal laws. Lolicon, the drawn images involving sex with children, is not illegal in the US. Some people would contest it, and some people have been thrown in jail for caving under pressure and admitting "guilty" to child pornography charges without proper representation. For the few cases that have existed with this, the Comic Book League Defense fund has helped even more with proper representation and have been found not guilty. Lolicon isn't a good example because the charges are usually associated with child pornography and distribution laws. A better example would be to have an artist in the US who has been thrown in jail for drawing lolicon, which there are plenty of, but I have yet to ever hear of a case where they've been thrown in jail for breaking a law. Rokudenashiko is creating art based on the vagina. There are plenty of women and men in the west who do similar, and they aren't being thrown in jail. |
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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This is gold for whenever people complain about localization changes in Japanese games when they come to the U.S. And people complain that the U.S. is prudish.
As for the court decision: bullcrap, bullcrap, bullcrap. They've basically declared anatomy to be inherently perverted, which speaks very poorly of people with vaginas in Japan. The implication here is, if you have a vagina, you're carrying something very very wrong and you should be ashamed. I kinda wish the U.N. would get in on this, because this line of thought can be disastrous for the Japanese population. Heck, Igarashi herself said she didn't know what a vagina looked like. No wonder there's a baby bust in Japan: think of how bad their sex education must be if the anatomy of genitalia is verboten. |
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manapear
Posts: 1529 |
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In total agreement with rheiders, VoidWitch, octopodpie and littlegreenwolf. Also, thanks to you all for eloquent words and having actual knowledge on the situation.
It's very telling how the more uninformed people are the most against her, or even pretentious about the whole situation. And I think this also goes to show how even in Western countries where this might not occur, plenty of people still think just the same way as the people she's against and continuing to infuriate. The problems with sexuality (especially when it's about anyone not cis, straight and male) are pretty universal in a way. Some way more extreme than other, but that these kind of mentalities seem prevalent all over is an issue, but I'm glad we have things and people that challenge this thinking. I hope she continues her work for a long time, and more like her's and the mural in London will become more common. I'm going to try and pick up her autobiography soon, and I also hope our library gets a few copies. ♥ |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5922 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Do we really want the U.N. telling nations that their culture and society is flawed and needs to change. Because what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If we are happy with the U.N. punishing Japan over cultural and societal issues, then we should be happy also when the U.N. does it to us. It pays to remember that free democratic nations do not make up the majority of U.N. member states. |
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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The last time the UN trying to butt into Japanese discussions they got rebutted by the very people they were trying to 'protect' and went back home with their tails between their legs. America already butts into foreign politics enough already, so they probably shouldn't be encouraging more of it. Also seems a bit dishonest to see people trying to make this an issue about women when obscenity laws also apply to male genetelia as well. -Stuart Smith |
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JDude042
 Posts: 261 |
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Reading the thread, I can somewhat understand that she's apparently making vagina-related art as an outcry against the obstruction of the female genitalia in general, but putting all seriousness aside, the only thing I'm gonna remember from this is that she's, "Vagina Lady/Woman." It's not really something I can take seriously unfortunately... Especially considering there have been at least two previous articles involving her in the past on ANN. I'm guessing art is her life so to speak, and something about the female vagina being taboo in Japanese culture really irked her and made her want to lash out against it? Is that it, or is there something I'm missing? Maybe it's just because I'm an adult male, and not really an art buff per say, but I feel like someone would have more important things to worry about with their time, but that's just me. Just felt like putting my two cents out there.
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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No one in the US would try arresting someone for vagina art. After the Mapplethorpe exhibit fiasco back in the 80s where a museum was charged with pandering obscenity for hosting photos containing BDSM and nudity of children, in one of the most conservative cities in the US where the prosecutors thought they had a slam dunk until the jury shut them down, because ART, people know better than to try that shit.
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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The guys in this thread (I"m assuming most of the people complaining here are male) are bringing out the hippie feminist in me: Hey, guys, did you know that almost every person on earth, including yourself, was conceived in and borne from a vagina? I know that's gross, but it's a fact!
Japan famously holds annual penis festivals featuring multiple giant phalluses. Here's an interesting article about the Kanamara festival, the most famous one (there are others, too!) So, people are allowed to parade through the streets with giant penises, but if a woman wants to send her design of a vagina sculpture to interested parties, she's being "obscene"? Why is male genitalia celebrated and female genitalia scorned, if not for outright, blatant hypocrisy and sexism? It would be cool if Japan would hold a manko festival and even the score! But until then, artists should have every right to depict the vagina, at the very least. |
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TheFullmetalOne
Posts: 170 |
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I think the primary reason is that Japan's culture has historically been (and in many ways, continues to be a male-dominated society). It's probably less noticeable in the major cities which tend to be a little more progressive-minded, but out in the more rural areas, traditional ways of living are much more common. Bear in mind, that before the post-WWII American occupation of Japan, women had few rights at all. Admittedly, Japan (and a few other Asian nations) have lagged behind the West in the area of gender equality (some have joked that Japan is 20 years behind America in a lot of aspects, so what we see as normal here in America in 2016 will probably be normal in Japan by 2036, if there's any truth to the joke at all). That's the basic summary I've gotten from Japanese people I know, ex-pats living in Japan who's blogs I sometimes read, and my own independent research. |
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Stuart Smith
Posts: 1298 |
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Intent is the main difference. The Kanamara festival is about fertility, it's not just a guy making a mold of his penis for 'art'. There's an actual purpose and tradition behind it. As for a vagina fetstival, there are already similar celebrations about female anatomy in Japan. For example, the Karube Shrine is a shrine dedicated entirely to breasts. But like Kanamara, it's a shrine women go to to pray for bigger breasts, healthy breast milk for their children, safe births, and fertility. It's not just a shrine to plaster a bunch of boobs all over the place or sell boob related merchandise for the heck of it. It's all about the intent and purpose. Karube predates Kanamara by about 300 years, so it wasn't until recently men had their own fertility celebration if you want to get really into scrutiny over 'evening the score'. -Stuart Smith |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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I don't think that's fair actually. There are at least 5 other guys in this thread besides me who are 100% against this ridiculousness.
I was under the impression that she was sending her designs out more willy-nilly than that. Not just to interested parties. And I don't think male genitalia would receive a much better reaction if someone started sending pictures of one to random people. Especially if they targeted women. |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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That's not what she did. At all. She sent out 3D scan data to people as a reward in a kickstarter style fundraising effort to make the kayak. She didn't just randomly send pictures of her vagina to people like they were unwanted dick pics. She sent people who donated a LINK to a file. There is nothing disgusting about her artwork. Does this seriously offend you? 
I had more detailed cartoon vaginas in a "what's puberty" book from when I was 12. Does this little guy really make you think sexual things? Does her boat make you instantly think about doing the nasty? If you get down to it the same reason this offends people is the same reason people are offended of someone breast feeding in public. How DARE that woman use her body part for something other than pleasing a man. How disgusting. Really what's ridiculous about this whole thing is that she was arrested and thrown in jail over this. |
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relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. I thought she was handing out pictures in public areas. Like street corners or something.
No, it doesn't. As I said already, I find the fact that she was arrested and fined, ridiculous. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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If they think Ireland will be any more liberal with her form of art they are in for a whole lot more trouble and she'll be facing a bit of time in an Irish prison as well as a fine.
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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It appears the sentence applies to the physical object itself. Since it was created on a 3D printer, I wonder about the status of the file of printer commands used to model it. Is that also obscene? I doubt anyone would get "sexually aroused" from a string of commands.
I believe along with the object she has also distributed the printer file. It wasn't mentioned in this article though. |
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