Forum - View topicNEWS: Fire Emblem Fates' Western Release to Remove Controversial Conversation
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2266 |
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Oh no, I heartily agree that the drugging was way out of line, and not at all funny or whatever it was intended to be. I was just pointing out that if she's bisexual, then her entering into a relationship with a guy isn't out of the question, just unusual given her preference for women. It'd be a whole other nasty can of worms if she was a lesbian--that would be out and out "conversion therapy". It's just that this particular support doesn't mention her passing interest in men, so if you don't know about the other supports that mention her bisexuality, you could take this away as "curing" her lesbianism. As for StuartSmith, not knowing Japanese, I can only go off of the two translations I've seen. In both of them, the language used implies that her feelings for women go beyond aesthetic admiration or playing dolls or what have you. So for me, she's leaning hard on the bisexual front. Last edited by whiskeyii on Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:51 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Lili-Hime
 Posts: 569 |
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I read the scenes provided here in the translations. There is. A magic potion changes a character's attraction for girls into an attraction for the male main character.
Come again?
I never said she was. I said the stupid, outdated, homophobic idea that women specifically can be converted to be exclusively sexually attracted to men is very harmful to gay women (and bi women!) 1.) It still assumes that a sexual attraction for the same sex is an abnormality or sickness that needs to change to be socially accepted as normal and that women being attracted to men is the only normal state for a woman's sexuality. 2.) It assumes that men can control women's sexuality or a man can 'help' a woman realize she's straight. 3.) These kind of attitudes do lead to the practice of 'corrective' rapes because all it takes is a magical penis to make women start craving men instead of other women, apparently. In some countries corrective rape for lesbians is a matter of state policy. Here in the US and other western countries these attitudes allow conversion therapy to exist which is proven to be psychological traumatizing. I don't know if you've seen a Jdrama named 'last friends', but essentially a woman's fiancee rapes her when he thinks she's been seeing a lesbian woman. Even if it is not state policy in many countries, 'correcting' a woman's sexuality by rape does happen from family members and especially lovers/husbands who are being left once a woman figures out she's gay.
I'm reacting based off the translation of the scene presented here. Since Nintendo is allowing same sex relationships in this game on the whole logic tells me that this scene is indeed offensive and problematic or else they would not feel the need to alter or remove it. Even if what you're saying is true I was making a case that if hypothetically this game DID allow the male character to change a woman's orientation via magic potion that it should be removed because the right to play games 'uncensored' is not as important as the safety and well being of gay women everywhere who are damaged not specifically by this game, but by these kind of attitudes perpetuating society. |
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CaRoss
 Posts: 457 |
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Ah Soleil, the poor unfortunate controversy that was started over inaccurate translation and sketchy writing, I'm glad to know that NoA is looking to make some alterations to this support chain. It was horribly written in the first place (as is her character) even without the incorrect Tumblr translation.
Anyway, I'd just like to make a few comments based upon both the situation and the other comments I've read. 1) There is no gay curing of Soleil, since she isn't a lesbian in the game itself, she's heavily implied to be bisexual. Now, this doesn't change the fact that people can view it that way, or be offended by the way she was written (both are completely valid beliefs). However, it is worth pointing out that all of her romantic supports, not just with Corrin, are exclusively male. She's pretty much the definition of a "yuri-bait" character. 2) Yes, even in the original Japanese version of the game, the usage of a potion without her consent is sketchy and easy to draw date rape allegories from. The same could be said about the love potions in Harry Potter (and I'm still disgusted by the fact that they only bring them up to be played for laughs). It is absolutely uncomfortable, and could have easily been different if they discussed the plan together ahead of time. I mean, even in western media, magic potions are used for a whole lot of problem solving (think, once again, Harry Potter and many other wizard/wizard school franchises). 3) Soleil is a horribly written character overall. She's meant to play to the same tropes that Inigo filled in Awakening spoiler[and still fills, somewhat in Fates, seeing as he is her father and she had to learn them from somewhere.] Would it have been better if they had purely written her as a lesbian, or put more emphasis on her being bisexual? Absolutely, as either of those options could have helped to avoid this situation here; either by removing her romantic supports with male characters, or changing the implication of her relationship with Corrin. When a character has only one support that reveals such a vital nature of her character (in this case her support with Foleo), it is an easy sign that they've missed the mark with a character. |
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RitsuLaw
 Posts: 212 |
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Uhh, It makes me wonder if they'll even keep the bissexual romance options at all. Can someone give me a little light on this? Like, has the localization team said something about this already?
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Jacquipuff
 Posts: 274 Location: Silver Spring, MD |
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I don't know if the localization team has said anything, but I don't think the removal of this scene with Soleil is any cause for concern about the removal of the same-sex marriage options. In this case, they are removing something that could be seen as homophobic, so after doing that I doubt they would then turn around and themselves do something that could be seen as homophobic (ie removing the same-sex romance options). That being said, now that you've brought it up I myself am curious as to whether the localization team has ever mentioned it. |
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Aura Ichadora
 Posts: 2301 Location: In front of my computer |
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I have no real interest in playing this game (I stopped playing FE a long time ago... namely because I used to always borrow my brother's games and now we're an hour apart so I don't bother anymore). But I admit, I'm actually not too offended by this scene being removed. Drugging anyone against their will is just plain wrong, and especially if it's being done for a laugh. It's not right in real life; it shouldn't be right to laugh and play with it in a fantasy world either.
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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They have said nothing beyond this vague email. For all we know the assertion that there won't be this kind of dialogue in the American version just means that it will be the same as the Japanese version, and its heading off any claims popping back up from last year by saying there was never anything to begin with. That being said people thinking this is some kind of statement by Nintendo of America about ' correcting' problematic dialogue might want to be careful. Nintendo has never really cared about these issues, they're more focused on appealing to parents who might find this content objectionable for kids. There is always the strong possibility the actual homosexual romances will be removed from the game in order to appease the parents. Just be careful about supporting censorship because it might end up turning back on you in the end. For the record nothing about this magic drug was about curing her of her lesbianism. It was strictly about helping her be more comfortable around women. If anyone's played Awakening, it's like the Lonqu/Tharja support. -Stuart Smith |
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cg89
Posts: 4 |
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i can see where your coming from, but i don't feel that her being attracted to girls was the joke, it was that she couldn't deal with being super attracted to people, she was like lon'qu in FE awakening he struggled being around any woman, she seems to be the exact same but a girl....then again haven't actually played it yet so im not certain. and she seems to be an example of somebody more romantically attracted to men, and more sexually attracted to women, which is something i haven't seen in media before but how lgtb are usually treated in media is complete BS |
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AiddonValentine
 Posts: 2323 |
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Ah, this little issue again. I remember when Serenes Forest had a tizzy over it, thought it unfortunately got hijacked into people just finding a new way to whine about things in the current generation of FE they don't like. In my interpretation of this it's nothing more than Soleil getting the short end of the stick in terms of characterization. It happens in every FE, it just so happened to land on her this time. Ouchie.
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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I'm disappointed by how poorly online journalism is reporting the story. Nintendo never said they'll be removing anything, they said there would be no expression of "gay conversion" in the game. They're just restating the original scene was not gay conversion...it's just been reported as such due to click-bait journalism and people's eagerness to be offended.
The thing is, Corrin wasn't doing anything with the intent to change her sexuality. He was doing it with the intent to make her more comfortable around woman, the exact opposite of curing her attraction to them. |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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I hope the European version is uncensored. Europe got the bikini DLC uncensored. I wonder if America will take out the massage mini game and incest relationships as well.
Still seems weird to me to call a character who can't even date women a lesbian just for finding girls pretty. Maybe this is just a touchier subject in America compared to the rest of the world. |
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Zimmer
Posts: 197 |
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No doubt the same people saying this isn't an issue would be livid if they were removing a scene that looked like a straight character was turned gay.
Just because content is objectionable it doesn't mean it should be removed. And yes that is censorship. |
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GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
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Keep in mind, they haven't said they've removed the scenes. All they've said is "there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters". That covers a lot of ground. On one hand, they could simply dummy out the options for a support line between Soleil and the male main character. Resulting in the removal of all the problem causing scenes. Soleil would be left with five other male characters she could marry, so it's not like players would be starved for options for her with the removal of one. On the other hand, they could rewrite Soleil's character entirely to revolve around something other than an obsession with cute girls. This would remove all the things causing people to say she's a lesbian/bisexual, but they don't seem to have intended her to genuinely be bisexual, much less lesbian to begin with, or she wouldn't have solely male romance options. And in between the two, they could rewrite the support conversation line with the male main character to be something else. Or it could just be minor changes to the existing lines. |
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Shay Guy
 Posts: 2257 |
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Arguably not. Honestly, I'm really starting to question the treatment of mass entertainment's original-language script as Holy Scripture. It was a writing choice somebody made for a popular work of fiction. Writing choices can be bad choices. |
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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Ironically, it seems that most people who are agreeing with this scene being cut (if it has been cut) are effectively trying to change a straight character into a gay one, then screaming that changing sexual preferences is disgusting and degrading. It is, but it works both ways.
Firstly, it's a translation, and a sketchy one at that, as is to be expected at this point. I think it was Stuart who mentioned Oreimo, and this is pretty much a fantastic example of what I imaging has happened here. Kirino basically fangirls out over "moe"/"kawaii" little sister type characters. Does this mean she is lesbian? No. No, she isn't. It's just a character cliche, where someone is affected by "moe" to the point where it visibly bothers them, it's just a laugh really, they usually progress over it and that's that (they may not, and the joke is then recycled, but I digress). It's not a sexual or romantic attraction, annd it's not a commentary or substitute for gay relationships. To say it is is really just trying to substitute in a sexual preference to create drama and controversy where there really is none. I agree the main character spiking the drink is dodgy, but I don't think it was intended to be that way, but that's really the only issue here. It's not about trivialising minority sexualities, it's nothing to do with them. If she was available as a same-sex romantic option, then yes, we have a problem, but she's not. Like it or not, regardless of what the "translation" (which is clearly going to be at least slightly inaccurate) says, the character is straight. That's just a fact. If you don't like that, then sorry, but it's not changing. The translation does not supersede the fact that she is only available for straight-partner relationships, and shame on anyone trying to claim otherwise. |
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It's still a male taking ownership of female sexuality which hey I guess that's what Japan's all about at this point. 
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