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Sariachan
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1507
Location: Italy
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:15 pm
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SilverTalon01 wrote: |
Sariachan wrote: | Honorifics, once you learned what they means and all the subtle cultural stuff behind them, add a lot to the relationships between characters and how you perceive them. |
If you know what they mean, why do you need them in the subtitles as well as the audio? If you know what it means, shouldn't you know what it means if you were to hear it even without reading it? |
First of all, because I only learned them after watching anime for years. So, in general, I prefer when the honorifics are kept in the subtitles so that other people can learn about them, too.
Furthermore, if they are only spoken I could miss some.
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EricJ2
Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:49 pm
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Polycell wrote: |
Ali07 wrote: | I just don't want to see many other "Nagato-san" to "Miss Nagato" subs. That was something I never got used to in The Disappearance of Nagato Yuki-chan. Thankfully, YenPress' manga releases doesn't have that. And, while I hope that Funi changes that for their home release, I'll still buy the show...even if her teen friends refer to her as "Miss Nagato". |
This is how Bandai translated the original series, though, so I suspect that Funimation will keep that for consistency(if they weren't already inclined to dump honoriffics entirely). |
The Japanese don't really seem to understand the lack of traditional casual honorifics in Western culture, so it's extra effort for them to try and come up with an "equivalent".
On the Japanese version of Ranma 1/2, one of the jokes of the Principal's broken/American-accented English is his using Western honorifics and proper name sequence--"MISS Akane Tendou!"--so you know he's speaking a "foreign" language and not Japanese.
We've become too used to "-kun" to just skim over it and use names, unless someone is deliberately trying to use "-chan" to be annoyingly cute or "-sensei" as part of school tradition, and then we leave it as is to make the point.
(It's not like the days of "the Fuu-ster" for "Fuu-chan" or "Lord Tenchi" for "Tenchi-sama".)
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roxybudgy
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Western Australia
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Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:54 pm
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Sariachan wrote: | First of all, because I only learned them after watching anime for years. So, in general, I prefer when the honorifics are kept in the subtitles so that other people can learn about them, too.
Furthermore, if they are only spoken I could miss some. |
I think some people are making out the honorifics to be more important than they actually are.
Yes, they have meaning and provide insight on the relationship between characters, but without them, you're not really losing much.
I remember reading old copies of Viz's translation of Maison Ikkoku, and I still enjoyed the story. In fact, I enjoyed it so much, I later purchased the entire manga series in Japanese. I'm not fluent in Japanese, I can maybe read a third of it without reaching for a dictionary, but I did notice that Kyoko refers to Yusaku as "Godai" (surname) throughout most of the series. IIRC, in Viz's translation, she often called him "Yusaku". I think later in the series they switched to Godai. I think the earlier volumes also had Yusaku call Kyoko "Kyoko", but later changed to "manager" (in the original Japanese, I believe he always called her "karinin-san").
I still don't think that detracted from the story, or that anything significant was lost.
Edit: also, there was one chapter where honorifics played a greater role, involving a kitten named "Kyoko-chan", which was translated as "Kyoko Baby". Despite not using the Japanese honorific, they still managed to get the meaning of the story out.
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YotaruVegeta
Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:31 pm
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EricJ2 wrote: |
We've become too used to "-kun" to just skim over it and use names, unless someone is deliberately trying to use "-chan" to be annoyingly cute or "-sensei" as part of school tradition, and then we leave it as is to make the point.
(It's not like the days of "the Fuu-ster" for "Fuu-chan" or "Lord Tenchi" for "Tenchi-sama".) |
Subs still say "Doctor" for sensei or "Lord/Master" for -sama depending on the context.
I don't need honorifics in subs. I hear it, and you understand the meaning when certain honorifics are used.
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Sariachan
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 1507
Location: Italy
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:02 pm
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roxybudgy wrote: |
Sariachan wrote: | First of all, because I only learned them after watching anime for years. So, in general, I prefer when the honorifics are kept in the subtitles so that other people can learn about them, too.
Furthermore, if they are only spoken I could miss some. |
I think some people are making out the honorifics to be more important than they actually are.
Yes, they have meaning and provide insight on the relationship between characters, but without them, you're not really losing much.
I remember reading old copies of Viz's translation of Maison Ikkoku, and I still enjoyed the story. In fact, I enjoyed it so much, I later purchased the entire manga series in Japanese. I'm not fluent in Japanese, I can maybe read a third of it without reaching for a dictionary, but I did notice that Kyoko refers to Yusaku as "Godai" (surname) throughout most of the series. IIRC, in Viz's translation, she often called him "Yusaku". I think later in the series they switched to Godai. I think the earlier volumes also had Yusaku call Kyoko "Kyoko", but later changed to "manager" (in the original Japanese, I believe he always called her "karinin-san").
I still don't think that detracted from the story, or that anything significant was lost.
Edit: also, there was one chapter where honorifics played a greater role, involving a kitten named "Kyoko-chan", which was translated as "Kyoko Baby". Despite not using the Japanese honorific, they still managed to get the meaning of the story out. |
"A lot" or "a little" really depends on personal sensibilities though.
To me, it's missing a lot, since I love to not only understand the story, but its cultural/social background too.
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Otaku Heretic
Joined: 30 Nov 2017
Posts: 4
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:47 am
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I admit I used to be very weary of official translations, since I thought they were very "barren" and devoid of the "spirit" that fansubs have. However, I have since seen that that is not the case and that the vast majority of professional translations are perfectly fine.
However, fansubs do have some advantages to them:
-- They're not bound by any copyright laws. For instance, in JoJo's Bizarre adventure, nearly all characters are named after famous bands, so they had to be changed in the official translation. However, fansubs aren't bound by such constraints and can just use the original names.
-- They're not bound by demands from the licensor. For instance, they wouldn't be forced to use the English Pokémon names instead of the original Japanese ones nor would they have to put up with stupid "corrections" to their more than perfectly fine English translation "just because".
-- They can be just as aggressive with their language as need be. They don't need to conform to any standards and practices, so if there's a character that just swears the living heck out of everything, they can keep that swearing in the translation instead of toning him down to just be "rude".
-- Being fans, sometimes that means being more "in the know" about certain in-universe topics and therefore, they can translate stuff in a way only they could.
Then again, while the best fansubs may even be better than the best professional subtitles, the worst fansubs are far worse than anything produced professionally. I've been enjoying professional translations more and more lately (despite some of them still having some issues) and Justin made some great points.
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Errinundra
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 6583
Location: Melbourne, Oz
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:18 pm
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Locking dead thread.
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