Forum - View topicAldnoah.Zero (TV) (both seasons).
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15580 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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You are correct, I bring it up too often and its largely out of frustration from feeling a character is attacked on something I sympathise. Like being told to die because they are awkward. I know the comment is not on me, but I can't help but feel hurt. I am not even trying to say he is, what I am responding to is the notion that those traits make a person some sort of monster, that they unrealistic, and the idea that just because it was not shown on the face then it did not happen. Some have decided that the discussion has already been decided against him, yet my points and I have to make it personal to actually get listened to. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24236 |
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Well, I don't care what anyone says, DP - *I* still like you.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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The problem with doing that it tends to conflate reality (your RL condition) with fantasy (Imaho's personality). Imaho's personality may *seem* similar to yours, but in reality it is probably just a personality created by the writers without any regards to any actually existing condition. I'd guess they said, "Let's make him really unemotional! We'll make him the opposite of the hot-blooded hero! It'll be all clever and unique (except we already have Mr. Awesome from Irregular Student at Magic High School in this season's anime). I *seriously* doubt any of them were thinking about real life autism or were actively attempting to make his personality fit someone suffering from that. It's already pretty evident (at least, it is to me) that this series is only tenuously attached to RL considerations, so I think attempting to identify something like autism with whatever is going on with Imaho is going to lead you down the wrong path. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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Similar to others, I highly doubt that Inaho was supposed to be any kind of autistic character. All along, I've simply gotten the impression that the writers wanted to make him as cold-blooded and badass as possible, and the best way to do that is to make him seem completely unflappable and detached from any emotional drawbacks.
A missile is flying by and potentially threatening him and his friends with death? He's just chillin, like this is just a normal everyday occurrence. Aliens are attacking and slaughtering millions of people all around him? No biggie, Inaho's just hangin out in his apartment and cooking some breakfast. He's on a ship that's under assault by the same alien forces, bent on the destruction of mankind, and the adults in charge of the military can't come up with a plan? No problemo, Inaho pulls out his trusty iPad and comes up with the perfect plan for victory while he's in a bathroom stall taking a #%$@. All of this type of stuff is just meant to make him look like the coolest dude alive. It's not meant to be a commentary on some sort of condition |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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Regardless of what we, the audience, thought of Inaho's character in any manner, the intention of the series certainly was not to make some sort of social commentary about a fictional character who may or may not have some sort of mental condition. |
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Don't you think that these scenarios you have created in your mind are incredibly biased? I'm a Slaine fanboy and I admit the guy is pretty unstable but he would NOT go to the lengths of what you have just typed. You seem to be painting him as some obsessive freak. Based on what I've seen he isn't THAT bad. We aren't shown him masturbating to her picture in a dark room. He isn't sniffing her panties after he does her laundry. He has dedicated his life to the princess because she saved him. If he had been found by ANYONE else when he crashed landed I'm pretty sure they would have killed him on the spot. She likely spoke for him and even if he has been treated like shit since then at least he's alive. So yes she is very special to him. Why is that a problem? It doesn't make him a freaky psychopath in love. Before meeting Inaho he did everything he could RATIONALLY to try to stop the situation. Speaking with the dumbass emperor WASN'T a bad move. He is literally the only one who could stop this war if he wanted too at any moment. Talking to the guy was the best course of action that ANYONE could have taken. But shortly after he is branded a traitor and forced to try to find the princess on his own. I think it's reasonable that he is unhinged when he talked with Inaho. I don't think that excuses him being hostile with Inaho but it's more understandable in my opinion. Still I don't really like the idea of "Just because this character was right means he made the right choice". No, he was right because the writer made him right. Not because the audience was supposed to be able to see exactly why he made his decisions. We are never shown that. We are never properly told why Inaho didn't utilize Slaine but instead trusted Rayet. In fact I think that would have been a good topic for someone in the group to bring up. Because as many people have said it's inconsistent. But it really doesn't help that the anime just leaves it up to the imagination of the viewers instead of possibly expanding on Inaho's character using this very important event describing it in detail. However here is my opinion on the matter. I don't believe that Inaho shot Slaine down because he couldn't trust him. He shot him down because of how he responded to the exploiting comment. Slaine reacting the way he did made him a "potential threat". I think Inaho knew that Slaine was a dedicated knight but would be to much trouble to handle. So in a sense Inaho could have came to the same conclusions you did Ohoni. HOWEVER I do not believe that is what Slaine would ACTUALLY do which you seem to be implying. Using the information that Slaine could have given them they would have been able to come up with a more effective plan. Not only that but Slaine is a Terran too. If he was explained to WHY the Terrans needed her he would understand. He isn't thick headed. The guy obviously still cares about the Terrans since he had couldn't bring himself to shoot at them when he was with the giant purple robot knight guy (forgot what his name was nor do i care). He isn't going to go bonkers and ruin everyone's plans. If the princess still wanted to help the Terrans why would Slaine who is ALSO a Terran interfere with that? Slaine knew that the princess giving a message to the Martians would do nothing since the emperor likely wasn't listening at the time and the majority of the martians are in on the plan. So Inaho taking her to the main base for the military was a mistake since the enemy nearly took out two birds with one stone. Inaho could not have known with the knowledge he had but the point is he COULD have known had he used Slaine. This is why taking him prisoner would have been a good idea. He very well could be dangerous to everyone but he has information on their enemies which they could utilize for a better plan of action. Plus I'm sure seeing the princess would have calmed him down a bit. Which is sort of the main point here. Inaho didn't really have to trust him. In fact I sort of think it's reasonable that he didn't. But he still could have USED him which would have been the smartest idea at the time. Even if Slaine did shoot at Inaho he DID save them so in my opinion hearing him out would still be within reason. But lets compare Slaine to Rayet for a moment. Rayet for the most part has not socialized that much with the Terrans. I think the only person who has had decent screentime with her is Inaho's sister. Everyone else (aside from the princess) barely know or talk to her. So I find it hard to believe that Inaho spared her because they were friends. They were acquaintances of war at best. But key thing her is that Inaho said as long as Rayet had the same enemy he did she was useful. Uh..........guess who else had the same enemy? Slaine. But you know what Slaine DIDN'T do? Nearly kill the damn princess who is the key to their survival! Rayet was even more unstable than what Inaho could of thought Slaine was. In other words she was a "immediate threat" while Slaine was only a "possible threat". She had her little breakdown and afterwards Inaho not only puts his trust in her but still sees her as being usable. Now is this development a bad thing? If it was executed better I'd say no. But even up to the last episode Inaho is viewed as being cold and calculating. His own sister calls him out on this in the 11th episode. There isn't ANY point between his encounter with Slaine to Rayet's little episode that we start to see him change his views on how he should see these situations. Did the princess make him softer over time? Possibly, but it's not something that is shown in detail. There isn't any realization that he might have be better off treating people like Rayet or Slaine with a different view or try to understand what they are going through. This could have been used as a crucial moment of Inaho's development from being cold and calculating to smart but still able to trust people better. So to me it would have been within consistent Inaho logic to have Rayet removed from the ship. But seeing him suddenly sympathetic of someone who was a threat to him? It's not a case of people not WANTING to accept it. It's just bad writing. .
It would have made Inaho's reunion with Slaine all the more ironic with how things ended. Even if I admit to being a Slaine fanboy/Inaho hater I can see why someone might hate Slaine in favor of Inaho but for some reason today I'm trying to be fair to both sides. Just one of those days i guess
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Admittedly those scenarios could have played out differently, but I don't think what I wrote would be out of character for him, given his prior experiences. He's a total loose cannon. And no, he isn't obsessed in a perverted sense, but he is obsessed in a "knight" sense. He believes that she needs him, he needs to get to her and "help" her. It's a little romantic, but only in the tragic sense. He will seek to do what he believes she needs, even if she doesn't want that, and even if it leads to the worst possible outcomes.
It wasn't a terrible idea, but he could have made a better case. He could also could have told Cruhteo about the princess. No guarantee that he wasn't in on it, but if he was he'd know already, so no harm done. Now in hindsight, we know that if he had, Cruhteo likely would have been better prepared for Sazzbaum's betrayal and would have protected Slaine, and backed his claim to the emperor.
True, but I don't think we need to know. He made the calls he made. I agreed with them. And again, this talk of him "not trusting Slaine" is overblown. If Inaho had his way, would he have shot down Slaine? No, that was Slaine's choice when Slaine first targeted, and then fired on him. For all the talk of Inaho "provoking" him, there is no way anything he said could be a catalyst for violence for any rational person, it was all Slaine being Slaine. If Slaine had been any other character, they would have landed peacefully and life would go on. Inaho did not trust Slaine, and nor did he have any reason to, but he would not have shot him down had Slaine not just tried to murder him, which is good enough reason for anyone to shoot someone down. As for Rayet, I agree with his decision. She had a psychotic break, but she moved past the inciting circumstances. I would not believe she'd be likely to do it again.
No, he shot Slaine down because Slaine tried to kill him. It was self defense, nothing more. I do believe that Slaine's comments mde him suspicious and view him as a potential "problem," but not a problem that Inaho would have "taken out" on words alone. Slaine is the sort that engages in irrational violence, not Inaho.
Part of Slaine's problem is that he's always conflicted, he never knows which side to be on. If he felt, correctly or incorrectly, that the terrans were using the princess, or were putting her in danger, then he would likely try to escape with her, whether she wanted to or not.
The majority of martians weren't in on the plan, so far as we know, only Sazzbaum's faction was in on it, that's only like one out of 23 or so factions. Now as it turns out Saazbaum intercepted the transmission, but even Slaine could not have predicted that knowing only what he knew by ep7. Slaine really had very little intel that would have been of use that the Princess was not already aware of.
But the thing is, he may not have known a lot about Rayet, but they had lived together for a week or so, he'd been around her, so he had a better grasp of her range. Slaine he only "knew" for like five minutes mid-combat, so he had a lot less to work with. And again, Slaine just tried to kill him. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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1. But there is really no proof that Slaine would respond like that. We see him around her in the first episode and he doesn't really seem possessive. He treats her with respect while showing reasonable worry about her.
In my opinion he is a simple loyal night with a teenage crush. There is nothing wrong with that and there is no indication that he would suddenly snap and take her with him like a maniac. We are talking about Slaine prior to being tortured. And Slaine aside from that incident where he fired at Inaho due to being riled up from prior events had done nothing wrong in terms of saving the princes/stopping the war. He made smart decisions based on the limited things he could do. Slaine is indecisive but he's still a competent guy. Of course there is no real way to prove what either of us believe but if he had settled down in a jail cell while being allowed to see the princess he'd be a valuable ally imo. Slaine isn't just concerned with the princess but he also cares for the Terrans. If he truly only cared about the princess don't you think he'd be firing madly at them for revenge instead of hesitating due to his own moral agenda? 2. Actually you have to remember Slaine asked certain questions about this princess incident to Cruheto to feel him out and figure out whether he was in on the plan or not. Slaine misjudged him thinking he was in on the plan too since Cruheto didn't seem genuinely worried about the princess and merely exploited her for war. This ALSO was the smartest move for him to make at the time. Outright saying that Martians killed the princess would have been a bad move simply due the fact Cruheto was still racist prick at the time and would never believe him. But if he had been able to subtly figure out Cruheto could have been an ally at the time after he saved the princess he could bring her to him afterwards which would prove his claims. Again I don't blame Slaine for making this move. He made a mistake in judgement but Cruheto did not come off as convincing that he didn't know about the plan. 3. Didn't you notice that I said "utilize" instead of trust? I never said Inaho had to trust Slaine. In fact I already agreed with you saying it would be weird if he did. But as I've already said Slaine had been pretty rational in his decisions up to that point. Please note that I'm not one of the people painting Inaho as some heartless rock who provoked Slaine into shooting at him. I think what Slaine did was uncalled for too though reasonable due the shit he had to put up with prior. Still there would be no harm in keeping him around since he is an ally who could know a great amount about the enemy as long as he is heavily supervised. Slaine tried to harm Inaho but he still did just save their lives which is why it would be fair to keep him a prisoner not outright leave him. 4+7. You are being far to black and white about it. Inaho is far more calculating than that (at least I'd hope so). Yeah Slaine shooting at him obviously isn't leaving any good impressions but the reason WHY he shot at him is what Inaho likely made his decision off of. Slaine didn't like the idea of her being exploited which is exactly what the Terrans need to do in order for her to survive. Inaho likely saw that he would be an irrational person about his princess being used and could lead to problems with him interfering with his authority. Which again is why making him a prisoner NOT a highly trusted comrade would be the best course of action. Rayet nearly killed the princes, threatened them all with a gun and was clearly out of her mind. As someone brought up it's really "cartoon logic" to think an unstable person like this couldn't possibly snap again just because they had a little heart to heart conversation with someone. It is clearly hypocritical to believe in Rayet and completely dispose of Slaine when their two situations aren't that different. You can believe that Inaho somehow bonded with Rayet in the mere minutes of dialogue the two have had together but it's just silly to act like her and Slaine's scenarios are completely different in my opinion. Slaine and Inaho fought the together with the rocket armed lady for a good majority of that day. True they didn't talk much but it would be reasonable to see Slaine as a competent ally after that fight. He had a little freak out the same way as Rayet but because of what Slaine represented himself as after shooting at him (an overly loyal knight) Inaho didn't care to use him NOT because he tried to kill him if we are going by the logic he used on Rayet who could have possibly ended up killing many people on board. 5. That's simply your own interpretation of how he would act. In the presence of the princess the demeanor we've seen from him could change. But again he really wasn't being indecisive until after episode 7. He had a clear goal to stop the war by saving the princes. He also wants this because he cares for the Terrans being one himself. He would not simply freak out and leave them all to die by taking the princess with him. Not our Slaine
6. You are forgetting that the majority of the Martians wanted war while the princess was in the minority wanting peace. It is not unbelievable to me if a large portion of the higher ranking officers knew about the plan since Cruhteo is the only one who we saw didn't know. Slaine could have easily concluded that sending a message to the Martians would do nothing since one could assume the knights were controlling any messages that the Emperor would receive. Why wouldn't they? After finding out the princess is still alive that would be the smartest move and a conclusion Inaho would probably come to after hearing Slaine's story cause he's smart and all. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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You're right, there's no proof, and as I said it could go very differently, but that's my honest impression of how I think it would, based on his other reactions. The last of which being when he spoiler[clearly saw that the Princess had genuine feelings (fondness if not love) for Inaho, and yet rather than immediately joining Inaho's side he chose to brutally execute him instead. Certainly it was a time of duress and he can't be held entirely responsible for his actions, but it does seem to indicate his true feelings.]
He does care about the Terrans enough to not fire at them, but I don't know that he would be on their side if not for the Princess, and I still think he would be very suspicious of their motives at every turn, and when Slaine gets suspicious, he acts on it, usually with a dramatic escape.
I think he still should have told Cruhteo. He might not have believed him, but the information would have been out there.He shouldn't have been like "Princess! OMG, gotta save her!" or anything, he should have just reported what he saw, the Vers guy was about to kill the humans, and then the princess appeared. Weird, uh? Then there was some radio chatter where he said something like "how can you be alive, we killed you!" and the Terrans took hm out. I don't know what to make of that." Let Cruhteo make of it what he will.
They never fully detailed what happened after Slaine was shot down, but it's fair to assume that they did not have the time, nor the means to recover him. Sticking around too long would mean that the Vers recovery team would have intercepted them, and we don't know how easy it would be to recover either the ship itself, or remove Slaine from the ship. I feel safe in assuming that they would have taken him prisoner if it had been prudent to do so, therefore it likely wasn't prudent to do so. I doubt they just decided not to.
My feeling is that her actions were the result of trust issues, and of her trying to maintain a "secret identity." I feel that the way that scene resolved, in showing her trust and forgiveness, it made her trustworthy. Now that doesn't mean they just give her the run of the place, they did lock her up, but i doubted that she would do anything to betray them again, her reasons for doing so were removed.
I don't believe that it is, because of all the various differences.
And yet Saazbaum wanting to be careful about discovery leads me to believe that while the majority wanted war and would take what excuses they could get, only a tiny splinter of the group was actually aware of the conspiracy and wanted her dead. Also, keep in mind that Inaho was already aware that the assassination was a Martian conspiracy, so he was aware that they had their bad guys too. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Almost forgot i commented here!
1. You pretty much answered the issue in the last part of your comment. Slaine was pretty screwed in the head after this whole ordeal. But the way i see it he didn't really kill Inaho out of jealously. Probably still pissed off at him from their last encounter even though it was mostly his own fault. There totally needs to be an alternate universe OVA series where Inaho and Slaine end up teaming up instead of becoming enemies during that scene =). 2. He might be suspicious of Inaho but he wouldn't do anything drastic in my opinion. The Terrans never really involved the princess in anything dangerous that she herself didn't already agree too do so in hindsight they were never exploiting her so much as protecting her. 3. But you've got to remember Slaine didn't know if Cruheto knew about the plan or not. If he knew about the plan don't you think telling him that would be a bad idea? They'd lock him up so he couldn't talk or get involved. I still think it was best for him to be vague about it. It was to risky to outright say it. 4. Could be. But we'll sadly never know. I think not picking him up because the enemy was approaching would be a reasonable excuse but we have to consider the fact it could have just been a case of Inaho not wanting Slaine on board at all. Which is what makes the vagueness of this situation all the more frustrating. The audience has to come up with their own conclusions. 5. Human behavior is unpredictable. With someone as stressed out as Rayet it's fair to assume she wouldn't be the best person to have around in a time of crisis. Slaine was disposed of for the same reason. I mean yeah they locked her up but it really just seemed to be more of a "time out corner" than anything. But as I said before it would have been a bit more consistent with Inaho's cold logical self to keep her from being a threat regardless of her just blowing off steam. The fact she was hiding she was a Maritan could have ment was an assassin following her fathers foosteps trying to kill the princess. Maybe it's just me but it's just bizarre seeing situations like that happen the way they did. I mean the princess blaming herself for something that's not her fault? Sympathizing with the girl who just tried to kill her? It runs in line with her naivety but jesus that's really stretching things for me. 6. This again is something we can't really confirm. We don't see any other factions in the army but it's safe to say Saazbaum had the biggest influence of all of them since the Emperor puts a lot of trust in him. He didn't tell Cruheto about the plan because he was way to loyal to the princes. He'd have to dispose of him if he told him which he didn't want to do. It would be reasonable to only have a few people know but it's not out of the question a good portion of other people knew since Saazbaum likely had a great influence over the army. Inaho knew there were bad guys in the enemy but he didn't know that they knew the princess was still alive. If he did why would he take her to the military base and have her speak her message? The enemy would obviously keep any unfavorable messages from reaching the ears they didn't want them too. That's why Slaine would have been able to prevent Saazbaum finding out about their military base since he tracked the message to their location. But by going there they put the princess AND the base in danger. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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 Nooooo, I really don't think it was that. I mean, in normal conditions I could see him being upset about Inaho dumping him in the drink, fair enough, and that may have prompted him attacking Inaho in their mechs rather than Saazbaum, but seeing that the Princess liked him should definitely have tuned down that reaction below the "murder" threshold. It would barely be acceptable for Slaine to punch him in the face in retaliation. No, spoiler[it was almost certainly jealousy at work, although I could give him the benefit of the doubt of maybe saying it was rage that Inaho had allowed the Princess into such a compromised position that she could be killed. This is not a rational reaction, but is an understandable misplaced anger at himself for being considerably more culpable in her death, since he did everything short of pulling the trigger himself.]
There was no safe answer, but taking a risk that Cruhteo might side with him would be worth it. There were hints in play that the conspiracy came from outside (since the knight he knew to be a traitor came from Saazbaum's forces), it was a solid gamble.
Maybe, but again you can't blame Inaho for that one. If they didn't pick him up, that would be the captain's call to make, not Inaho's. If they were capable of picking up Slaine, and the captain wanted it to happen, it would have happened. Since it didn't happen, I think the safe guess is that they just didn't have the options to recover him safely in the time available.
But she was in a position to kill the Princess and there was nothing they could do to stop her, but she chose not to. She probably could have shot the Princess, Inaho, and the Captain before anyone could stop her, and chose not to. She was going through an identity crisis, but came out the other side. I would not chalk her up as entirely stable after that, but I would not flip out.
It's not a rational response, but it is true to the Princess's character. She is naive and tends to take more responsibility than she deserves, but that's who she is, and it makes sense from her perspective. I would disagree with her as a human being, but I believe it's a response that a human being could make.
But at the time Slaine was shot down, he didn't know more than the Terrans did about who to trust on the other side. Even if they didn't feel that the Princess's announcement would work, going to the Russia base was still their only real play. They did not have a ton of options. |
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Stark700
 Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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A twitter post has posted a visual lately regarding season 2. I think that might be who I think it is...
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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uuuggghhh... spoiler[The issue isn't that they will come up with an excuse for it, it is that by doing so they remove the last element of suspension of disbelief and this series might as well reveal that it is secretly occurring in the Matrix, everyone with there brains hooked to a mega computer would make more narrative sense than whatever BS they set up to give for why HE is still alive.] |
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Night fox
 Posts: 561 Location: Sweden |
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When I watched Aldnoah.Zero, I couldn't help but notice some similarities with Code Geass. You have the magic-like abilities: Aldnoah/Geass, the strategic-minded leads: Inaho/Lelouch, the short-tempered infiltrators: Rayet/Kallen, the naive pawn-princesses: Aseylum/Euphemia, the defected champions of justice: Slaine/Suzaku, and last but not least, the Orbital Knights/Knights of the Round (Could the wordplay be more obvious?
)
Aldnoah.Zero is more polished than Code Geass, though. The art, sound effects, and music, are all great, and voice actors like Ai Kayano (Darzana), and Shō Hayami (Cruhteo) are a joy to follow. The major issue I have with the series, is that the plot is too obvious, and that mysteries are revealed too quickly, and too thoroughly, effectively bleeding the story dry. To be honest, I don't -want- to have everything served on a silver platter. I am looking forward to season two, however, so there better be some mystery left, or I'll be sorely disappointed. *pokes Vaisaga* I do watch mecha from time to time you know. It's just that series like this are good -despite- the fact that they badly suffer from Gundam infestation. 
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Stark700
Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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Season 2, episode 1
spoiler[So no one died?] And right now, I think spoiler[a lot of characters are being deceived by that "fake princess". Idk exactly what Slaine and his new sub-coordinate Harklight is planning but it doesn't look pleasant] spoiler[Inaho is back too! He seems to gotten an eye enhancement with his return. Curious to see his roles in this season. I have no doubt he will probably try to avenge what happened and find the real princess.] |
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