Forum - View topicTranslation: Cultural or Just Lingual?
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hentai4me
 Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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Speak_Up attempted this, the topic was interesting, just badly presented.
When an anime is translated from Japanese into a different language there is obviously a good bit of difficulty getting across concepts and ideas simply due to differences in culture and often these kinds of things wont translate well or work in the new language. Thus a company/group will alter the dialogue, cut or add details (such as genders, names, historical references, etc) and generally alter things to make the anime appeal to their target demographic and/or increase sales...or even make it legal to distribute. What do you think of this? Is it 'right' to alter content of a show and potentially alter great parts of it merely for increased sales? Speak_Up used the gender of one of Sakura's companions being changed in Cardcaptors as an example...do you find this acceptable or not? Remember people not everything is translated for an American audiences only, Captain Tsubasa for example is available in America, Europe, the East and in Arabic countries so different degrees of alteration are required for each of these places. Personally I don't actually care in the slightest, as long as the show is enjoyable and makes sense I couldn't care in the least as to what had to be done to make it that way. Afterall if I need to get a degree in Japanese Cultural Studies to enjoy an anime then I wont enjoy it...as no anime is worth that much effort. (I don't have such a degree, mine's in personnel management.) |
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Enjeru
 Posts: 221 |
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Anytime something is translated from one language and culture to another, some modifications have to be made for the audience's sake. There are many reasons for this. Since we are talking about anime and most likely the issues of dub translations, subtitles, and even the scope of the story, I will only cover my opinion in those areas.
Most anime, much like anything done in ones own country, has many cultural references that one who is not from that country may find confussing. It could be something as simple as common courtesys' or holidays/festivals. These are things we have grown up with and been a part of our life, even if not directly. For someone who is from another country to just be expected to understand something that they have a limited understanding about is asking a lot. Which is why a lot of DVD's and *other sources* lately have been either adding information about the culture that is refered in the episodes or the culture bubbles that show up. I for one am glad to see this. Azumanga Daioh is a great example of this. ADV had the inserts in each DVD that covered the cultural references or jokes that were in the episodes that followed. Of course there are some of us such as myself that attempt to soak up as much about Japanese culture, so maybe these aren't as needed as they would be to the more casual viewer. And that brings up my point. This is a business, and to be a successful business, one must have a broad target audience. Only cattering to the "hardcore" fans is a sure path to failure for these companies. Thus, there is a fine line to keep those on both sides of the line happy. Now in regards to the subtitles that may not match up with the exact Japanese dialogue. Well that is just impossible. English and Japanese do not directly translate into each other. Japanese, much like English is not just about what is said, rather how it is said means a lot too. And that is where the main issue is. Things such as sarcasm differ in their approach from language to language. Even England english and American english have differences when it comes to this. Again, a fine line must be drawn. To get the main point of what is said in the Japanese dialogue and put it in such a way that relates to our own understanding and experience is a difficult thing indeed. When it comes to the English dub, all of the same issues that are stated about the subtitles are present, but now there is another factor to think about. All of this must take place, but now it has to match the "mouth flaps" of the characters. I assume you all know what those are, but for those who may not.....mouth flaps are the movement of the character's mouth to look like he/she/it are talking. So now, american companies not only have the difficult task of translating the Japanese dialogue into English that gets the point across, but now they are limited to what words they can use and also the length of the dialogue so it can fit the flaps and give off the image that the character is saying what you hear in the audio. Now as far as changing names, genders, and other parts of the story to better fit the audience, I really could not say one way or the other for the entire issue at hand. For me it would have to be as it happens. There have been a few series that changes such as this were made and all I could do was shake my head in disbeliefe, of course there have been others where I knew major changes were made, but I really didn't care because the enjoyment of the series was not altered. Most of the distribution companies have either translators working on the script who are either Japanese or are proficient in Japanese. It's not like there are people who very little understanding of the language working on the scripts. Even in some cases, the american company has to send their finished project to Japan and have the origional creators look at it before it can be mass produced. |
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jetz
 Posts: 2148 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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The other one ended up in some sort of a fight... Something to do with lemons too.. that's kinda sad
Anyway, enough with the sarcasm. I'm kind of in between.. In some ways it's right, and in some ways it's wrong.. Let's start with the positive. If some series are not "altered" and made to fit a country other than Japan, it might not sell, so altering it is a must. Although when I say alter, I meant that it should be altered minimally (that's some use of the word "alter", huh?).. Also, Japanese culture may not be understood well in other countries. I remember watching a clip of Elfen Lied on youtube, showing Yuka and Kouta kissing and they're cousins, right? Someone posted a comment saying "aren't they related or something? yuck" someone replied "in other countries, including Japan, allow marriages between cousins" Anyway, I am not sure if Elfen Lied is being shown in the US, since another comment on that same clip was "I wish they would show series like this in the US too", but if it was shown, the distributors would probably remove the family ties between Yuka and Kouta just like in Card Captors, where Shaoran and Meiling are simply childhood friends.. But then again, wouldn't it be better if anime was enjoyed the way it was meant to be enjoyed? I was so mad when I found out how I was duped back when I was just a twelve year old girl. Them translators made it look like Kurama was a girl, and Genkai was a guy. I was so confused when Kurama started sounding like such a manly man (My "Kurama - Hiei getting married" fantasies turned to dust shortly after) and I was so "disturbed" when a relationship between Toguro and Genkai was implied. Anyway, here's what I think. If a series has to be altered, it shouldn't be too major that Japanese culture has been compromised. I think what would be considered otherwise would be wrong, since the Japanese are the ones who brought anime to foreigners like us and as much as possible we should accept anime the way it is without tarnishing the Japanese culture.. Names, genders and historical references should remain intact.. Oh and with regards to translations, well you can't directly translate Japanese to English cause that won't make any sense, and I guess this is already accepted..(does my lengthy post make sense? time check: 1: AM.. Still stressing over my grades  )
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11507 Location: Frisco, TX |
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In anime, yes, on two occasions: if they at least provide two versions (cut, uncut), or if it's being directed towards a younger demographic (a la the Pokemon crowd) because I doubt they would cognitively understand such "triviality" anyway and most older fans just don't care. However, the subtleties of aesthetics come into play in that a lot of things out there for older, more mature people, be it anime or whatever, and are usually considered works of art or intended for a specific purpose. Just because someone wants to make more money doesn't give them the right to completely deface the said entity for extra kicks and cash within a given society. I mean, let's take the Bible for instance. It's pretty serious stuff in retrospect to religion, personal philosophy, and all that other stuff. But some people might find it, I don't know.. boring. Let's say we alter the material just a little bit so that we can sell more copies and make a few extra bucks. How about we say Jesus piloted a Gundam and that he actually died by blocking a beam shot to protect the earth from the Genesis weapon fired by Judas? Oh, and the pose his Gundam struck when it exploded resembled that of his crucifixion. But then he's resurrected 3 years later as a clone wearing one of those Char masks and lives on to prevent the discovery of tobacco and mono sodium glutamate and fight the machines of The Matrix with his girlfriend Haruhi Suzumiya. Let's call this "The Newer Testament." If it gets that silly, I wouldn't really know how to feel since I'm not a Christan. But I'm sure a devout Christian would see the whole thing as a mockery or defamation of their beliefs. But if that someone who 4Kids'd it was making the extra money, I guess it's not our place to dictate how business should be done, right? Of course anime and the Bible are on two completely different contexts, but maybe some people care more about anime than the Bible in that kind of fashion. That's where objectivity and subjectivity come into effect. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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I agree with Tony for most parts, but I've noticed a specific remark he made:
Mmm... maybe not. 
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mind over matter
Posts: 67 |
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I think recently there probably has been a rise in demand for original anime., and the mouth flap issue is something that really bothers me.That's one of the reasons that I preffer not to watch dubs. Editing out or changing the content to make it more understandable seems to defeat the purpous..there are always some things I don't get, but I preffer to see it that way, and learn from the refrences.
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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In some cases, I think the dialogue may need to be adapted a bit in order to make sense to most people. For a manga example, the other day I was reading the first volume of The Gentleman's Alliance and Ushio said, in the Viz translation, that she hated people that sucked up to others to get ahead. In the notes in the back, it points out that in the original version, she said some Japanese saying about a ball of yarn. In this case, Viz went with what she meant, rather than what she literally said since few people reading it would understand what the saying meant. I think this kind of 'alteration' is acceptable, since it was the intent that mattered, not the saying itself. If it was one of those cases where the characters started discussing what the saying meant, then obviously they should have used the actual saying.
But changing cultural aspects like holidays and food into something more 'American' should not be done. Riceballs should remain riceballs, not become donuts. Wether they are onigiri or riceballs is a translator's decision, but I don't particularly care whether or not they translate the term. And CardCaptors levels of changes should NEVER happen. They should never, ever, change the freaking main character |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11507 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Woah... I had no idea the God of Manga was into the Bible  . I think we should add "Original Novel" to the staff list, but then you'd have disputes over who to credit. I think we're in need of another Crusades or maybe a variation of the Holy Grail War to determine the title of "Beginnerer." 
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mistress_reebi
Posts: 735 Location: Canada |
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I notice that when watching anime first year students are called freshman. I think it's only in the States they call first year students freshman. I don't know Japanese but one would presume they have a name for it, which I would rather they used. For example in France, high school is called Lycée, and watching a French film in subtitles I prefer they used the word for the school because of the cultural difference, same with anime. Del Ray ususally writes the sayings/words they can't translate in the back of the book.;Viz does that as well.
I was thinking about buying that because I liked Full Moon. Is it any good?[/b] |
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Asako
 Posts: 751 Location: Hawaii |
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I think it's alright to be forgiving on some food products. For instance, if Serena/Usagi was called "rice dumpling head" instead of "meatball head" a lot of people wouldn't be laughing since they wouldn't "get it" 
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digitalkikka
 Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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I see nothing wrong with an edited/altered version being available for younger or mainstream audiences (for increased sales), but an uncut version needs to be available too. In an "uncut" version I want the show presented to me (through subtitles or a dub) in a way that I can understand and that does a good job of conveying the spirit and meaning of the story and characters. I understand some things need to be adapted but those adaptations shouldn't alter the content of the show.
Jesus... a CHAR?!?!? Did he pilot the God Gundam? |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11507 Location: Frisco, TX |
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How do you think he wrote the commandments on that huge tablet for Moses? With the exploding God Finger, of course. 
He's crying because he doesn't get to hold Rain. Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife/girlfriend, after all. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Char Jesuznable: "I believe in the rebirth of a humanity that lives in space. However, in order to develop all of us into Newtypes someone has to shoulder all the evils of humanity." - abunai |
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Malintex Terek
Guest
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Under the recommendations of several people at this forum, I actually went for the Azumanga Daioh anime and hated it, but I tasted the manga and it wasn't repulsive at all - however, I think that some of the localization in the title seemed quite obvious, namely, when the girls were speaking "Spanish" when they most likely were speaking "English" in the original Japanese. Localization should really only be applied for children or something so complex is goes over the heads of most people; case in point, most of the jokes in Bo^7 and Flint: The Time Detective. |
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Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
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