Forum - View topicTo CG or Not to CG
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avius viator
 Posts: 101 Location: Ohio |
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A post on slashdot today reminded me of an article I read which discussed the “death” of 2D animation in the face of 3D. The gist of both articles was that Disney is going to cease making 2D features in favor of full CG productions. This got me thinking about the increasing use of CG in anime, and how it’s affecting the medium as a whole.
I didn’t really have specific question here… I just wanted to generate a discussion about the increasing use of, and the trends toward, CGI in anime. Its a broad topic....Any thoughts? For example (brainstorming): -If the major studios in America tend toward 3D animation, will anime become the primary source for 2D? -Do you think a larger 3D trend is coming for anime as well? -Would you like to see more CG use in anime? Less? Better integration of the two? Which anime have done it right? -Why is 3D animation so popular in the states now? Because its new? Because recent 3D features (Finding Nemo, Shrek,etc) had better storylines than the 2D features? -What do you think of Disney’s decision to stop making 2D features? Will it decrease diversity in the animation market? Or open things up for smaller companies and anime? -Would you like to see you favorite anime redone in 3D? Is a CG remake somehow better than live action? |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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-If the major studios in America tend toward 3D animation, will anime become the primary source for 2D?
In my opinion, yes, Japan will be the primary source of animation now. Now that Disney is no longer making future animated features, and Fox's animation studio went bankrupt with Titan A.E., things such as Miyazaki's films will be the only family feature films we'll get now. Course they'll be other stuff out there every once in a while, but you can probably count of the Ghilbi movies to eventually be considered "Disney" movies here with them being distroed by them. I think for a while no one will notice that Disney isn't doing any 2D work. -Do you think a larger 3D trend is coming for anime as well? I really hope not. I love the animation, and it's just so great to see how much it's progressed since the 80s. I hope that companies have realised that people, or at least anime fans, like the hand drawn animation more then the 3D stuff. Gonzo I think is a good example of it. They're working on Peace Maker at the moment, and though the 3D is noticable, it doesn't take the attention away from the hand drawn animation. The same went with Last Exile. Hopefully they'll stick with it. I really don't want to see them go all 3D like Disney and have the art of 2D animation lost. *no matter what people say, it IS an art* -Would you like to see more CG use in anime? Less? Better integration of the two? Which anime have done it right? I mentioned before Stuido Gonzo, and they do the limit of what I want to see 3D. Blue Sub was overdoing it a bit, but Last Exile, Full Metal Panic, and Peace Maker are great examples of what they do with 3D. Don't want to see it overpowering the animation. -Why is 3D animation so popular in the states now? Because its new? Because recent 3D features (Finding Nemo, Shrek,etc) had better storylines than the 2D features? I think better story lines have a part in it, but people like my mother are just AMAZED at the 3D animation. Heck, she bought the Final Fantasy movie just because she found it so cool. To watch. "Ohhhhh! Look at that hair! It's so neat! Wow, that looks so real!" I think people are just in awe with 3D. -What do you think of Disney’s decision to stop making 2D features? Will it decrease diversity in the animation market? Or open things up for smaller companies and anime? I think they're stupid idiots. Their movies are flopping becuase of their crappy stories. What ever happened to projects such as beauty and the beast, and the lion king? They can continue to release great movies, but their attempt at "modernizing" their stories and animation led to this unpopulatrity. Now it's up to Japan to give up our animation. -Would you like to see you favorite anime redone in 3D? Is a CG remake somehow better than live action? No, I wouldn't want to see it redone in 3D. Look at Voltron, bleah. Keep it animated, or live action for me. |
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RantingOtaku
Posts: 219 Location: Sudbury, Ontario, Canada |
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I like the look of both, especially when combined effectivly... GitS, Spirited Away are two good examples. Disney going all CG was kind of a shock, even though I don't care much for them anymore, old Walt must be rolling in his grave now, as for the Anime situation, I kinda hope it never changes, even if production times are harder causing strain on artists, I dunno why, but Anime itself seems perfect with 2d.
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Mou Kaoru
 Posts: 298 Location: Simple minds are easily amused. |
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Agreed. The problem with Disney is not the art but the storylines. In a way it seems that they're running out of ideas.
I think that there will and will always be 2D animation. Not just Disney but other studios as well. 3D is fast becoming more popular now because of advanced technology and it has certainly come a long way. Plus it just looks cooler!  But as littlegreenwolf stated, as long as the 3D animation doesn't override the actual drawn animation. Ghost in the Shell, of course, a great example. I think Finding Nemo did so well because of the story (such a cute movie nyo!  ). But I mean people were probably more amazed at how realistic the water looked!
I was... 
Either way suits me just fine, although I still prefer good 'ol fashion 2D animation, which is why I would never in heck want my fav anime 3D-ified! 
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king_micah
 Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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Cg is to be, but preferably it increases options and lends to an expansion of the Media.
Now if I can just get Macross redone in Macross Zero Style.... (drool) |
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Serpentar
Posts: 10 Location: Doniphan, MO |
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CG is good dont get me wrong however..
At the moment unless a good amount of effort/money is invested it just looks fake, esp when they try to emulate human movement with it. Examples The Hulk, FF: Sprits Within , etc the chars were done very well with CG but however they had to use motion capture inorder to make their movements seem human. Using CG on building on inanimate objects takes less effort but at times it detracts form the whole suspension of disbelief. At times CG is preferably when 2d drawing doesnt caputure the oh ah of a star expolding or a car cruising off a cliff and such. Everything has its place personally I am saddend by Disneys move they had a good thing going with their older 2d cartoons ie Tale Spin, Dark Wing Duck, and Duck Tales. I would hate to have everything end up as a Buzz Lightyear or Transformers Armada copy. I like special CG effects like in the matrix and such but such stuff takes time and money. Personally Id rather Anime/Cartoons stay were it is at price and quality, then suddenly switch to CG becuase it is the next big thing and the quality go down due to price or I suddenly have to start shelling out 45 bucks for a new dvd volume. |
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Iron Chef
 Posts: 487 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I dunno on this one. I'm hedging between sort of "keeping it real" by using only hand-drawn animation, but on the other hand it makes sense both financially and aesthetically to include CG in anime.
Hand drawing and animating each frame of the copious quantities of anime being produced would result in either poor quality or poor work environments, though the continuity of the show would remain intact. CG is a bit easier to create and edit, plus it looks cleaner, but sometimes it just clashes with the hand-drawn stuff (Dual!, anyone?). I hate making decisions. 
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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I agree with littlegreenwolf here. Studio Gonzo is probably the best example of how CG & cel in anime should be combined. I've been most impressed with such works as Full Metal Panic! thus far. 
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charite
Posts: 12 Location: Denmark |
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Something people seems to be overlooking here is that CG no not mean 3D, but any computer generated image.
Many animation studioes already uses CG in non-3D animations, often with backgrounds, or in some cases, like Spirited Away, moves the entire process to computers. So while cel animation may slowly become a thing of the past, I dont think that 3D animation will replace 2D styles, but eventually bend together with it, using the strengths of each. Sure, there will be made 3D movies and series, but i dont think the animation audience wants to have the 2D styles replaced by 3D just yet. |
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hellsing
 Posts: 248 Location: top of mt Fuji killing sin with Titus. |
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some animes they should leave them as is but for classics like robotech they should remake them!
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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The Utena movie had an awesome computer generated sky for the dancing sequenece. That you couldn't even tell was computer genterated. And lately I've noticed Gonzo has been using computers to animate complicated camera angles, like one of the opening scenes to Peace Maker. Both these things didn't take away from the animation. It was possible to animate it by hand, but that would cost even more money. They're still hand drawing the animations, just coloring them on computer, and once in a while doing the bgs for budget's sake. Spirited Away was still hand drawn, and not all their backgrounds where rendered with the computer. Another use of computers with animation that I think is good to point out would be Blood the Last Vampire. Even if the story wasn't that great, visually the movie rocked. Their 3D objects were blended in rather well, and the lighting effects they had throughout the whole movie were rendered with the computer, and that there gave the movie a stunning look. As long as the CG does not replace the hand drawn animation, CG can be anime's friend. One form of CG I cannot stand is Cel Shading. It's ok I guess in videogames, but keep that out of anime, unless it's for a inanimate object. |
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rage-demon
 Posts: 356 Location: WA, USA |
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[quote="littlegreenwolf"]
I actually think that if cel shading is done properly, it can kinda disguise the 3D animation and make it look just like the rest of the anime/cartoon. I added cartoon because the two best examples of cel shading that i can think of are Invader Zim and Futurama. Now you have to admit, these cartoons show a very good use of 3D animation. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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The cel-shaded Spiderman cartoon on MTV looked pretty good. If only the story wasn't so...blegh.
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ÄlveKatt
 Posts: 96 Location: Sweden |
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You know, i really like the style used for ex. Ninja Scroll. In it motion becomes sort of abstract. And it gets this wonderful arty feel. I really miss this with all the 3d and cgi-enhanced movements of most newer anime.
Soon now Nausicaä is released in Japan. I have preordered. And i am looking forward to it. Purrrrrrr. |
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Legato 2057
 Posts: 437 Location: Soon to be Japan |
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I don't think that animation will die here in America just because Disnye decides to go CG. There have been plenty of excellent cartoons on American TV that have used animation. Batman Beyond, while not the most detailed animation, had great stories and very fluid animation. Cell shading still doesn't look right IMO.
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