Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-03-23]
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Mephistophilus
 Posts: 200 Location: Fresno, CA, United States |
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On the rant, I can see how that slightly erroneous train of logic evolved, and I'm assuming it also came out of a criticism of the writer's downloading or liking of fansubs. However, this does not change the fact that it was just that: erroneous.
As mentioned above, someone can't say that they would get the anime for free on TV regardless, and not all income comes from airing on TV (in fact, anime airing on TV here does not generate a profit in most cases-On adult swim and the like). You don't watch TV for free here anyway most of the time, and I haven't seen anime outside cable networks anyway. Yes, income does come from advertising rather than (for the most part) subscription fees. However, in order to gain that advertising income the shows must be popular enough on TV to generate enough of an audience to advertise to in the first place. If everyone downloaded fansubs because "they would get it for free anyway," the medium would definitely be hurt at the least. Assuming that the ranter is a sub-lover (maybe even an "elitist," but I'll touch on that later), I think that the ranter is disregarding the other aspect of anime: localization. It's nice to be able to own a DVD copy, and lots of people love to watch anime in English anyway. Anime has to be localized to be brought over, and if EVERYONE downloaded fansubs, there would be far less incentive to localize anime and there would thus be no dubs or DVD copies to buy. You might say that those who download fansubs are in the right because they create that incentive in the first place, but the rant suggests that everyone watch everything for free and not buy the anime, so this becomes a moot point. There's also the fact that if the market shut down in the US, Japan would be far more strict with their copyright issues regarding anime, as there would be no chance of the anime going to the United States because of those fansubs. The ticker seemed to be the use of the word "elitist" turned around to make it sound like those criticizing fansub "elitists" were in the wrong. The tone of the rest of the rant lent me to believe that this person was one of those elitists, as the issue of dubs was never touched on in the crusade for fansubbing. The fact of the matter is, anime is not viewed only by people who wish to read subs. You may say it only requires a little more effort, but a lot of people (a portion of the market large enough to make creating dubs worth it) do not want to read them, and would rather make anime watching a passive activity. The condescending tone in speaking of dub watchers as essentially "lazy" leads me further to believing that the author of this essay seems to be an "elitist" him or herself, except on the other side of the coin. It's okay to have that opinion, but I at least would appreciate a more balanced view of the subject. On the rest of the column, I definitely agree with the adaptations answer. After all, though the three LOTR movies were slightly altered and thus adaptations, they were good adaptations, and an "adaptation" that was exactly like the books would have killed a lot of the fan base. If a book exists, there's no reason to have a stiff, by the letter adaptation when it is put on screen. Some exist, but they tend to have a limited fanbase because of that aspect of wooden adaptations: They are stiff, and will most likely come off as stiff. I think the cosplay issue is one that goes along with some of the more ugly and yet more prevalent ideas of society: If you aren't pretty or perfect, you will be shunned in some way. My only advice is, be different, and do not care what others think of that difference. People who wish to beat you down will always exist, and the only thing you can do is overcome their unwarranted criticism and do what makes you happy anyway. I haven't seen Ouran myself, but I have to say that that flake is why I feel bad watching shows with moe characters, and I really wish that people like him would be distinguished from the genre as being different from the norm. Regardless of what I think of moe, this person is obviously not an individual that should be listened to, as he obviously has problems. |
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Hiraleth
Posts: 6 |
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I have to say, I kind of agree with the rant. Now, before everyone starts attacking me, hear me out. I try to buy the official release of all the anime I like. But, it's just not possible, unless you're extremely rich. Some people that watch fansubs are in their early 20s, having a hard time paying rent as well as trying to pay tuition for university or whatever. Now, I know fansubbing isn't morally and legally right and everyone should try and buy as much of their anime as they can afford, but what's the problem with someone who just can't afford it downloading it. Even if he didn't, the companies still won't make any money off of him. By the time he can afford it, he won't still be interested in the same series, so they still won't get his money for it (unless he really enjoyed it, in which case he still might purchase it). As for the fansubs creating popularity and getting shows licensed, I do believe it is true. Look at Haruhi. It was so popular as a fansub, they knew if they licensed it, it would make money. The same thing will probably happen with Ouran and it also probably happened with Naruto, back before it was licensed. So, I try not to download licensed series (I don't see harm in downloading unlicensed ones), but we all know that it is not realistic to always buy anime. And like I said, I will always try my best to buy my anime, but you also have to see the other side of the story.
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sabriyahm
 Posts: 291 Location: Georgia |
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Wow Never thought of the guys in Saiyuki as fan girl types. I always liked the show because of the excellent dub humor. ( I never bother to watched the later seasons) But maybe I am just shallow and easily amused.
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JCB
 Posts: 11 Location: Hopewell, VA |
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A toast to Zac for mentioning Symphony of the Night!
 Getting Castlevania is the Xbox 360's first step in a long battle to make their Live Arcade worthwhile compared to the Wii's Virtual Console. Castlevania and Metroid have always tied as my two favorite video game franchises. This is like a return to my gaming origins as I haven't played Symphony of the Night since I first got my PlayStation back in '98. I hardly remember it and so it's taken me the past two nights just to clear the first castle! Ah...memories...  Yet despite the undeniable quality of Symphony of the Night and its influence on the rest of the series and video games in general, I still think one or two of the more recent handheld installments (Dawn & Aria of Sorrow in particular) did manage to refine the formula even further and nearly attain perfection.
Now, once Super Metroid gets released on the Wii, I'll be set. 
Last edited by JCB on Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I want a PS3 but it's going to have to wait until the price drops. I just can't justify spending $600+ on a game console. Once they release some games I want and have a robust online system in place I'll probably cave in and get one. I have a Wii and it's cool. I don't use it a lot, though. As for the PSP, I will likely not buy one just for the Dracula X collection; if I can get one cheap, maybe, but they're changing the voice acting for Symphony of the Night, and to be honest it just won't be the same without the awesomely terrible voice work. |
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Jubet
Posts: 15 |
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I always liked the elements of parody in Ouran
 the concept of 'pretty boys' is exploited, literally and figuratively.
Another fansub rant, I know everyone has a different opinion of fansubs, and the legality of them (well, they're not legal, I guess the availability of fansubs), but surely there are other rants to be ranted? |
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Lady Multi
Posts: 675 |
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Rant: ...hmm...most anime nowdays are "claimed" before they come out...
"Sponsered by (insert company here)" For example: "Sponsered by Bandai" typically gets liscenced by Bandai. I've seen "Sponsered by Geneon" too and they were liscenced by Geneon. Has the ranter done research or are they pulling it out of thin air? I vote "air". I watch fansubs, too, but I find that rant silly. If it's gonna get liscenced, its gonna get liscenced; if not...it's not. Fact is fact; fiction is fiction--don't get your wires crossed. |
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Cowboy Cadenza
Posts: 243 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY |
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Call me old-fashioned if you like, but Super Metroid will always be the best video game I've ever played. If Ocarina of Time wasn't the best. |
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10円
Posts: 605 |
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You know it's a screwed up world when admonishing folks who steal openly is somehow considered "elitist."
Actually, my argument is that it's wrong to steal, regardless of who does or does not get short changed. What kind of parents didn't teach you that from your earliest years onward?
Giving away art for free can only enhance its value? Sorry, but I simply don't buy that twisted logic.
If fansubs are what drive the market then explain why a seriously legitimate anime market really only exists in couple countries when fansubs are available almost everywhere?
I'm not aware of any 'film festival' that gives away millions of free tickets to virtually every movie ever made. Your logic is so weak that it's hard not to laugh out loud while reading it.
On the contrary, it's apparently you who can't be bothered to 'dirty your fingers' with an honest day's work to pay for all the anime you watch.
The internet didn't really change that much; you simply failed to update your concept of theft to include modern reality.
Just keep telling yourself what you want to hear and I'm sure everything will work out. Oh, and don't forget to list what you do for a living so the rest of us can do our best to undermine it while you 'adjust' to a life of unexpected irony.
I'd much rather be a snobby 'elitist' than a casual thief in self-denial. |
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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A little unknown OAV called Shamanic Princess. I had the old skool (yes, I misspelled that incorrectly) video fansubs of it and it's pretty good. That reminds me that I NEED to buy the DVD of the show. @ The person who complains about the fangirls: You know, I'm pretty much sick of hearing this type of complaint over and over. It's nice that the person overlooked the massive population of FANBOYS who obsessed over the latest harem series or what not despite being the same crap over and over again and usually crappy plot and usually watch for the lolis, "healthy" girls, or the milktank girls. If you're gonna call out the fangirls, you might as well call out the fanboys too. I mean, honestly. 
PROTIP: There is nothing wrong for watching the show for the cute girls or cute guys. It's a preference, but I doubt a majority of fans who does this would defend the show as a literary masterpiece if it's obviously not, like Zac said. Sometimes choosing an anime from its attractive character designs can lead to watching an awesome show like Ouran. I don't think anyone who liked Ouran only watched it for the bishounen. In fact, alot of fangirls of Ouran I encountered truly enjoyed the story and find the unflappable spoiler[(except when it's thundering and lighting outside) ]heroine, Haruhi, a fresh breath of air in a genre that is stagnated with bubbleheaded, clumsy, academically retarded girls with a heart of gold who love completes them as main characters. Haruhi is blunt, indifferent to gender roles and can be mean at times. Yeah, Haruhi's got a heart of gold, but it seems much more geninue given her nature. Of course Ouran's being a comedy shoujo series, its humor won't appeal to everyone. @ The girl who wants to cosplay: Fudge on the people who might make fun of you and just do it, woman! But seriously, if you're gonna cosplay, please, PLEASE don't half-@ss it and give it your best. If you can do a well made Sakura outfit, you'll be praised more than you think. I've been to cons before and fans LOVE, LOVE well-made cosplay outfits. And Zac's thoughts on cosplay message boards are right on the money. Even 4chan's /cgl/ board (it's cosplay board) is regarded one of the worst, if not the worst, boards of 4chan. And 4chan being 4chan, that's pretty bad. So go and have some fun. @Ranter: *sigh* This is why I get annoyed with people who feel entitle to keep fansubs and forego buying the anime completely. I'm not saying to buy every anime that you watched fansubbed, but at least pitch in. I personally find fansubs a great way to pick out what anime should I buy and watch anime that I KNOW won't get an American license, but if I can't buy the anime, I usually buy the manga to show some support. If people felt the way that the ranter does, the American anime industry would completely collaspe. Last edited by ArielTsuki on Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Oh yeah, this one is gonna get ugly, that's for sure, I can think of at least one user we're going to be seeing a lot of in very near future. I'm not going to bother replying to the rant however, it's was so delusional and unrealistic it's not even worth a real response or argument, that person obviously needs to learn a little bit more about the industry and economics before posting another rant. The logic was so absurd I actually started laughing about halfway through..
That would be nice. I know. I agree on the comments on Saiyuki, I actually watched some of that series and aside from a few comedy moments I found it to be incredibly poor. The animation in a few parts was also laughably bad. I never understood how it remains so popular but I suppose if there is such a legion of fangirls that would explain it. And props to Zac on the mention of Castlevania:SotN, definitely one of my favorites as well. I'm with you on the PS3 though, I want one but the price tag is ridiculous, I haven't even picked up a 360 yet either. The 360 has a better line up right now but there's a lot of PS3 titles I'm looking forward to. Last edited by Keonyn on Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NGE1113
 Posts: 1081 Location: Alexandria, VA. |
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Key, your rebuttal was very nicely written. Just had to get that out there.
And I would like to expand on this notion. It seems clear that the ranter has forgotten the notion of consumer sovereignty, and how the market responds to it. When I purchase a DVD, my money sends out a clear vote to whatever supplier I bought it from that I would like them to continue what they're doing. Not doing so is an indication that I don't need (or want) what the supplier's putting on the market. I know, one person can't make a difference, but if enough people take on the "Hey, I know Japan's getting it for free, so that makes it okay for me to do so, too" attitude (with resulting drops in sales), well, dropping demand equals dropping levels of product released. Truly, this is a worst case scenario, and I sincerely hope it remains that way. But, if it does happen, I guess Megan'll get her wish: all anime will be free... courtesy of secondary methods, of course.
I can understand where you're going here, since I'm a unemployed college man, myself. It's the (misguided) view out there that since anime somehow magically airs on TV for free, it validates the use of various websites and YouTube to circumvent buying the DVD. That's what gets to me. EDIT: Mephistophilus, you beat me to the subject matter of my post. |
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10円
Posts: 605 |
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Dear god that acting was awful. Bleh! I really enjoyed SOTN on the PS1 but it looks so dated now. Maybe on the PSP it wouldn't look so bad. Even my beloved SCV4 is just too old to keep me interested at this point. Or maybe I'll go find it and fire it up. Mmm. Fond memories. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Wow, called us "elitists". I think that it was well thought in the beginning, the rant. However, I see where there's a few flaws and things like that. You don't have to pay for your anime via buying a DVD, since there's sites who legally provide sell you anime episodes online. Fansubs are something that somebody got their hands on without the company's permission, and then are distributing it on the web.
To the flake: I have more experience with Japanes women than you will ever know, if that's how you think they are 
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SoloButterfly
 Posts: 239 Location: Masaki Residence |
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Ah! A Shamanic Princess banner! Lovely. A series that gets passed by far too often in my opinion.
As for licensing dating sim and H-games, well there is a company that has released several titles, Anime Play. I'm sure they would have licenced more if their first offerings had been snatched up. (I recommend their Hourglass of Summer myself, lots of similarities to the soon to be released Premonition). Cosplay: Not everyone has the body of the of a supermodel. The point is to make your costume work for your body type and not try to dress like you do have that body. I've seen lots of people who don't match the exact measurements of an anime character but they knew how to make the costume work for their body and so it turned out great. Fansubs: since we all love opening this can of worms. The problem comes when you go..oh, well I don't like this series enough to buy it..but I'm still going to download the whole series and burn it on to DVD. *rolls eyes* Use it as a preview if you want, but only as a preview. If you don't like it, then delete it and don't keep watching it. If you did like it, buy it. If you can't afford to buy it, rent it or encourage a friend to buy it, or split the cost with a friend, birthday presents, something, anything to show your support. True, there will be series that you like but not enough to buy, so there's no need for you to have them stashed on your harddrive now is there? (I don't even want to go into YouTube and other streaming video places as it's a mess right now and headed for some major revisions in the near future, but streaming a whole series doesn't make it any wrong). |
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