Forum - View topicThe Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (TV).
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Malintex Terek
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Irrelevant. I'm claiming the entire site is a red herring to get people to believe the Japanese somehow "endorse" Bang Zoom! Entertainment's casting. Given the wholly tepid and or negative criticism of the cast, it's a contingency measure to try and regain some ground with the irritated fanbase.
Elaborate, since I think I spoke clearly the first time and if you had trouble understanding, I'd rather you re-read what I wrote instead of demand fresh material at my expense.
Bandai is implying an ecological fallacy, that is, to use one instance of a Japanese speaker expressing him/herself to say something about the Japanese perception of Haruhi in total. That is, "hey, this Japanese speaking person thinks our dub is alright! If that's the case, the Japanese think our dub is cool, too. That means, if THEY, the intended audience of Haruhi, like it, you should too!". That's the message Bandai is sending, and it's a form of psychological engineering. Telling people how to think. I'm defounding that by pointing out: 1. There's no guarantee that's a Japanese person, we just know that person can write in Japanese. 2. There's no guarantee that person is not a paid representative of Bandai, since Bandai suddenly "discovering" this website is dubious. 3. Mentioning Alucard's dub voice indicates this person is well aware of how stuff operates in the West, which only further de-legitimizes that person's "authenticity" as being a credible source of information. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8499 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Malintex Terek, just because you are tepid about the dub and the release, doesn't mean you can apply it to everybody. The fact is nobody's even watched the dubbed version, they're simply reacting to short clips of the dub. And you didn't seem to expect much of the dub or even the R1 release as a whole, to begin with, so is it any wonder you don't like it?
I'm pretty sure that Bang!Zoom's viral marketing doesn't extend to some massive conspiracy cover up campaign like you suspect. Get over yourself and your theories and don't watch the dub if you don't like it. Your cynicism has become full-blown paranoia. |
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Mirrinus
 Posts: 230 Location: La Thiene Plateau |
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It's academically dishonest to immediately assume that any source you're studying is wrong. Why do you insist that the default interpretation is that it's not a real Japanese person?
Yeah, the same way Bandai's Kyon myspace "discovered" the gundam hare hare yukai parody, the haruhi cars, SOS brigade figurines, Amazon Japan, and Akiba Haruhi displays? I'm sure all those were also really advertising campaigns by Bandai. Seriously, I'd be in extreme awe if Bandai would actually go to such lengths to promote their product. And btw, this isn't the first time Kyon's myspace has quoted a Japanese blog. I refer you to his post on Feb. 15th as well.
So, uh, you think knowing how something works in another country automatically de-legitimizes your opinions on your own country? That's just wrong on so many levels...Your argument basically is that because the writer of the blog knows about Alucard's English dub, he must not be a Japanese person. Think about it. Your "evidence" against the writer of the blog being Japanese is that he talked about Alucard's English dub. Are you telling me that no authentic Japanese person would ever think to listen to an English dub and compare it the original Japanese? Most Japanese students aren't English-illiterate, you know. It's practically a required course for them to take. In completely unrelated news, here's the translation to Kyon's character CD version of Hare Hare Yukai. It's pretty funny, since he changes the lyrics just like Ryoko Asakura did: http://atashi.wordpress.com/2007/02/20/the-melancholy-of-haruhi-suzumiya-character-song-vol-9-kyon-hare-hare-yukai-verkyon/ |
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Malintex Terek
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As usual, either with intent or mistakenly, you pitch a ball to left field and start screaming at first base; what do my stances toward the dub have to do with pointing out Bandai's trying to decieve the innocent? And what does "just because you are tepid about the dub and the release, doesn't mean you can apply it to everybody" supposed to mean, anyway? Do you mean, "not everyone shares the same opinion as you?" Elementary, my dear Watson! Who could have imagined that even the most simmilar of people could have strikingly contrasting opinions of the same material! Since you do not seem to have the capacity to summon up a counter-argument, I'll provide you with the ammunition, but I will also point out why it's so low-grade it isn't even worth firing; as a critic of the dub, it would be in my best interest to say as many bad-things about it as possible to amass enough negativity to impact sales. Afterall, if I truely dislike the dub so much, the only way to "punish" Bandai, BZE, and all involved would be to cripple the industry in whatever way possible. In defense of myself, I must first point out that the possibility of this is nil, for despite the number of people that patrol this forum not many read these discussions, nor care to. They're pre-programmed to purchase the R1s anyway; even then, most of the people in this topic ignore my responses because they are perceptive enough to recognize it's a meaningless opinion and poses no threat at all. This is something you, like your contemporary bennyb, have yet to conceptualize. My second reason in defense also applies to why I am elaborating on your attack on my foundation; I enjoy writing about stuff. Either in critique or compliment, it is a sensual experience to spin yarn out of letters, either here or abroad; I am not writing out of rage or even irritation, but out of genuine love for writing, whatever the subject may be (in this case, anime/manga). So, the idea that I am criticizing Bandai or its associates "because I hate them" is rooted in a misconception, since I'm only out to play devil's advocate for those who are legitimately angry. As much as a courtesy as is a desire, I take pains to make my criticisms as constructive as possible, since that makes them entertaining to read, structurally simplistic in following, and just plain "make sense". Roaring against something using an argument planeted solely in subjectivity is not only unsophisticated and unhelpful, it is annoying and only serves to agitate people. In analogy, I am a gunsmith forging weapons and providing the ammunition for people to use, but I bear no ill-will to those killed by my guns or those who use them for malice.
Haha, oh wow.
It's not dishonest in the slightest, and quite frankly, society through mass-media like television have degraded the human conscious resistance so much that they passively accept all stimulus they recieve as "truth", which leads to confusion when someone dissents. Frankly, doubting something at first glance is a cornerstone of a methodology called Critical Thinking, which emphasizes the foundational rules I base my logical dissertations on.
Totally.
I'm implying that, but I cannot nor will outright say it since there's not enough evidence to assert it. I'm just casting doubt on it being a 100% authentic Japanese person commenting on the dub. It could be real, and it could not be; to disregard the red flags as to could not is the err. You've got to admit this whole incident is a little fishy, since coincidences like this are so unlikely to be discovered, let alone capitilized on, it would appear to be a fabrication.
Sigh, what is with people and "absolutes"? Black or white, red or blue...look, I never said *no* Japanese person would listen to the English dub, I'm saying that the overwhelming majority would not. Such is a reasonable assumption to make, no? At that, the assertion that Japanese students not being "English-illiterate" is naiieve, for while the courses are mandatory, many Japanese people leave school with a fractured understanding of English due to the teaching style of Japanese schools that degrades from a lack of use. Such is no different from myself losing a grasp of Spanish after three years of High School education (even after a single year), and having to learn everything all over again.
Sigh, I wish I could hear it right now; I do adore those songs, such that I own the single CDs except for Kimidori, Imouto, Kyon and Itsuki. *thinks* Wait, maybe I can! 
Last edited by Malintex Terek on Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:54 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Malintex Terek: I disagree with most of what you write, but I have to compliment you on the way you write it. Although it's rare for me to share your opinion about something, it's always interesting to see how you've expressed that opinion.
I admire the style of your posts if not the substance. With that said, I wish to ask a question of the Haruhi fanbase as a whole: when do you think they'll actually post a real image of the art box? The waiting is eating away at my brain like a cancer and I'm beginning to suffer delusions about bunny suit figures coming with LE release. (Never going to happen but a nice dream.) |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8499 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Excuse me, but pointing out Bandai's various attempts at campaigning for their newest hit license isn't unmasking some kind of deception - they're being pretty forward about their strategies. Where's your proof that the Japanese site is set up by Bang Zoom? And if it was, how would that even be decieving? Given their marketing strategy, much like the Kyon Myspace page, something like that would actually be expected. But as you have no evidence besides your paranoid rants, I can only conclude you're taking this far too seriously. Last edited by penguintruth on Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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I find it amusing that they faked the broken image icon from an old version of netscape. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Dude, not only does the sites diary go back to 2001, but the Alexa Archive confirms the sites existence at least as far back as 2004. The page linked from myspace is just some obsessive fan charting every change to the site, much like we've been doing on the forums ourselves (I have 36 versions of the site source code saved on my HD, and I still missed many of the changes). |
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Malintex Terek
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You are asserting that Bandai makes no secret of using any venue to promote its series; I agree. However, I am pointing out that this particular venue isn't completely credible, for the suspicious reasons I have said before.
Sigh.
I'm not here to tell you lot what to think or do. That would fall under the "psychological engineering" I just denounced. I'm just pointing out stuff that most people would miss, that is, to make you lot think over stuff instead of accept something at face value like mindless cattle. On digression, BZE is not behind this at all. It's Bandai, the distributor.
I agree, I'm not surprised this sort of thing happened. But, I'm just trying to shine some light in the eyes of the "'omg' I think I'm turning Japanese" people to not be fully trusting of whatever they read. It's one of my personal philosophies to be naturally distrustful of what I've been told and to reflect over it before accepting it as 'fact', let alone a logical 'truth'; the proletariat lack the training I have and therefore are more easily decieved, and whenever possible, I'd like to set them on the path to truth if deception is present. Heck, said lot can start by doubting what I say. In fact, I welcome it! Anything will do to jump-start those latent gears in the minds of today's stagnating youth.
I've seen this conclusion from you numerous times, so let me flip the quarter; why do you have such an interest in what I say?
I meant just that page, sorry. 
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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And he was referring mostly to that site as well as far as I can tell. Anyone can claim a conspiricy theory, but if you really think every piece of fandom out there is all some sort of consipiricy theory from Bandai, you're absolutely out of your mind. Is it really so hard for you to believe that Bandai can find this stuff? They don't need to make it up. Please, enlighten us if you have some sort of extra knowledge on the issue, but if your only point in posting is to warn us that it may potentially, in theory be a sort of plot on Bandai's part... save your breath, and more importantly, our time and effort of having to read your posts when you don't know anything about it. |
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Malintex Terek
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Again, honored citizens. I'm not saying stuff is concrete here. For the final time, I'm just trying to point out that the weird smell coming from Bandai's crate of bananas could be due to some rotting fish. What you have said is not all that difficult to believe at all, but there is some suspicious material up there as well. Heck, Bandai very well may have just stumbled upon this website, yet that doesn't invalidate the other suspicious stuff I pointed out (i.e., the Alucard reference). For we know, the person who runs the diary could have informed Bandai of the website hoping it would get blogged. Any one of what I bulleted could be right, or all could be wrong! I am merely acting as the town-crier, OK? Yeesh, is this really such a tough glass of Citrucel to swallow? =|
Pardon me, but I have a legitimate right to point out what I see as suspicious coincidences as you do to say I do not. I shouldn't have to have some enchanted dirt on lonelygirl15 to come here and make accusations or criticisms, since few if any people on this forum would have access to such information. Rather, I am the first person to point out something new and some are vigilant in attempting to remove my credibility in fear of people considering what I say to be prophetic for the end of the world. Jeez, I'm no John of Patmos. In before, "oh ho, you WOULD like to believe that, wouldn't you?" ... Whether or not you agree with me is not only fine, it's downright cool; I myself was expecting posts along the lines of, "do you reall think that? I disagree because" (Mirrinus) not, "shut up Terek, you're just a trolling paranoid conspiracy theorist 'cause you've got hate!" (joking, PT  ). That's really the kind of discussion I come here for, not bouncing a basketball off of a brick wall.
... In other news (yup, a shameless attempt to change topic focus), I got to hear Kyon's Hare Hare Yukai and...it's OK, I guess. I hear Sugita singing as Hideki from Chobits a while back and he sounded better, but I would suppose his HHY was a bit weak because he was in-character as Kyon...? It's strange hearing that since Chihara clearly isn't "Yuki" when she's singing on her single. How does Itsuki sound? I've been told he's more...flamboyant than usual. |
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Mirrinus
Posts: 230 Location: La Thiene Plateau |
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Well, Itsuki's lyrics are clean of any homosexual undertones. Not sure about how he sings it, as I haven't heard it myself yet. Meh...
Seriously though, I think his character has been blown rather out of proportion. I stand by what he says in novel volume 8. |
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Malintex Terek
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I'm at a disadvantage here since Volume 8 has not been translated (will you elaborate, as in, give a chapter?), but in previous installments Kyon has expressed "observations" of Itsuki's tendancies. spoiler[I believe in Book IV or V, probably V, Itsuki makes an action and Kyon makes an off-hand remark along the lines of, "Oh Koizumi, it will take more than that to melt my heart". ] NOW, if Kyon says hillarious somethings like that, there's *got* to be something he suspects about Itsuki. |
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Mirrinus
Posts: 230 Location: La Thiene Plateau |
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Here's my thoughts on Itsuki, minor volume 8 spoilers:
spoiler[At the beginning of Editor-in-Chief in volume 8, when Itsuki is speaking with Kyon about how the Organization has been manipulating many of the things going on around them, he strongly implies that his own outward personality that he shows to Kyon and the SOS brigade is also nothing but a facade. He claims that he is capable of discerning Haruhi's thoughts and feelings, and using this information, he appears exactly as Haruhi wants him to appear, regardless of his actual person. From this, I tend to believe that Itsuki's homosexual implications are nothing but a farce being played out to amuse Haruhi, just like everything else he does.] More thoughts on Itsuki, major volume 4 spoilers: (DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT THE (most likely) SECOND SEASON PLOT TO BE A SURPRISE!!!) spoiler[If you want to take a look at what the REAL Itsuki is like, I would venture to say that the closest we've seen of the real Itsuki is in volume 4, when the world is reset so that nothing supernatural exists. In the alternate world created, Itsuki is just a normal gifted high school student. While everyone's circumstances are now different (i.e. Yuki isn't an alien, Mikuru isn't a time traveler, Itsuki isn't an esper, and Haruhi isn't a god), it's important to note that at least in the case of Mikuru and Haruhi, their personalities are still identical to their other selves (Yuki is different mostly because she now actually displays emotions). We can conclude, then, that in the alternate world, we are able to see Itsuki for who he really is, without him having to don a facade for Haruhi's sake. We see that he does genuinely enjoy philosophical ramblings and long explanations, true. However, we also discover that he is, indeed, heterosexual. After all, in the alternate world where he no longer has to mask himself, he actually has a girlfriend, and once again we learn more of his genuine fascination with Haruhi. Which is almost more than we could say for Kyon. *cough*] |
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NGE1113
 Posts: 1081 Location: Alexandria, VA. |
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Another round of source code changes:
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