Forum - View topicRevolutionary Girl Utena (TV).
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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Revolutionary Girl Utena (TV) Genres: drama, magic, psychological, romance Themes: duels, feminism, school Plot Summary: Just after Utena's parents died she was consoled by a prince who gave her a ring with a rose crest on it. Utena was so impressed by the Prince that she vowed to become one herself one day. A few years later Utena is attending Ohtori Academy where she gives all the teachers headaches because she dresses in a boys uniform so she can be like the prince she met long ago. After Utena's friend is insulted by a member of the Student Council, Utena fights in a duel for her friends honor. Utena's rose crest allows her to enter the dueling arena where Utena wins the duel and becomes engaged to the Rose Bride. Unknowingly, Utena is pulled into a series of duels with other members of the Student Council for the possession of the Rose Bride. As she becomes fond of Anthy, the Rose Bride, she must fight to keep her friend safe and to discover the horrifying secret behind Ohtori Academy. ---------------------------------- Anime Marathon Discussion (Nov. 6th, 2015 - Nov. 15th, 2015) starts here ---------------------------------- I just got done with the Utena series and I thought that the final DVD was something of a let down after the big build up from the DVD immediately before it. The last three episodes just opened more questions than they answered. If that's what I wanted I'd go watch Eva again. For Utena I was really hoping to have a real ending with real answers instead of a furious rollercoaster ride that flew off the tracks and somehow ended up back in soap opera land. They had TEN DVD's to work with for Pete's sake. I really enjoyed some of the filler episodes, I mean the cow and egg episodes were priceless, but I would have preferred for the creators to strip them out if it meant we could have had a proper ending with a real conclusion. Oh well, I guess I just don't have the mind of a mystical artist. Maybe I'll listen to the commentary track to see what all that imagery was supposed to mean and see if I can fill in some of the blanks. Last edited by daxomni on Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SlyphGlitch
Posts: 35 Location: Fighting my way out |
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Utena is a series that desperately needs a sequel. I always thought the series end was suppose to lead to another OVA or movie. I guess I was wrong...
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Eh? I thought Utena's ending was splendid. There are no open ends I can think of, but there is a lot of subtext. Perhaps if you pointed out specific questions you were left with after finishing the series, I (or other Utena fans in the forum) can answer them for you.
Utena was such a bizarre show from the very beginning, I personally think it would have been a mistake to produce a conventional, straightforward ending. |
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daxomni
Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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Thank you for the offer. Maybe this thread was really more about just needing to vent about my disappointment. I was so taken with how the storm was developing in DVD 9 and I was very excited to see how it all came to a close. Instead, there really wasn't a very clean close (in my view) and I was really disappointed with how seemingly critical events were glossed over or nullified. They go through the trouble of explaining that the castle in the sky was just a projected image, but you can apparently have a sword thrust through you and then fall a great distance only to survive without any explanation? Heck, at least two people survived that. How was the world supposed to be revolutionized? I guess I'm just not looking at this from the right angle. |
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Cloe
Moderator
Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Utena is open to multiple interpretation; however, this is my take on it. spoiler[As for the swords, it is revealed prior to the last disc that Anthy has been continually tortured by unseen swords, every minute of every day. The Sword of Dios, which Utena draws from her body in every episode, is merely one of the swords that rests in her body. It is also revealed that Anthy is, in fact, a witch, and she used her powers to sacrifice herself for Dios (how long ago is not specified; it could have been centuries ago). I belive Akio represents one aspect of Dios, while the prince in the floating castle is another. So when she is thrashed by swords in the last episode, it's basically just a more intense version of what she has already been living with. I assume her powers and the curse of the Rose Bride keep her alive. As for Utena, she's an incredibly strong person. I'm not suprised that she survived the sword being thrust through her. It also makes her rescue of Anthy more touching. She must overcome her injuries and still become a prince. She's not such a weak person that she would die just from that. And as for revolution, I think if anyone other than Utena had gianed Anthy, they would not have set her free, thus taking advantage of her powers and gaining it themselves. Utena, however, freed Anthy, left Ohtori for the "real world." Anthy, finally free of her curse, decides to go to the real world as well and find Utena. There has been some specualtion that Ohtori academy itself is all a grand illusion, and one can only break free from that illusion by travelling to the outside world. This, in itself, is a kind of world revolution. This motif is expanded further in the Utena movie, which I highly recommend.] Anyway, feel free to disagree, but that's my explanation. |
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varmintx
 Posts: 1235 Location: Covington, KY |
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First off, this entire post is an analysis of the show so there won’t be any spoiler tags—if you have not watched the show through its entirety, STOP READING NOW. While I did my best, this is obviously not an in-depth analysis; it is the framework for what I hope will be a lengthy discussion. I have only watched the show once; I’m sure many of you have watched it many more times than that and are much more familiar with it. I hope you expand upon, add to and maybe even counter my assertions.
I immediately loved the flamboyant art style—it’s what kept me from getting too down on the repetition of the first arc of the story. Have any of you counted how many times Anthy gets slapped?  Anyway, the fairytale motif along with the shadow players do a nice job of letting the viewer know that much of the story is not told in a literal fashion; but rather, through symbolism.
The labyrinth of symbolism that makes up the show will cause many to interpret its meaning differently. Impeding my ability to do so is the fact that I’m an adult male but feel the show is intended for teenage girls. The idea of a valiant prince coming to the rescue is an archetypal dream for young girls—similar to the dream of a beautiful, white wedding. The final episode’s shadow play features girls discussing their plans for the future. One girl says she’s going to be an actress and gets hassled about the improbability of it. Another girl says she is going to marry a high-ranking man; included in this is the line, “Hey, aren’t women supposed to be good at nabbing handsome guys?” Let’s examine movement in the show. First, we have the elevator that the Student Council takes in the first arc symbolizing their personal desires to move up in the world. Utena slowly climbs the stairs to the dueling arena; this of course represents her first steps towards what she will become. During the Black Rose Saga, the challengers take an elevator down as they are airing their grievances--not hard to figure out. In the Apocalypse arc, Akio takes the challengers out for a ride on an endless road for which we never get to see where it leads; we’re simply told they are shown “The End of the World.” Is this the future? It is more likely the fear of an indeterminate future. Also, a gondola suddenly appears out of nowhere that takes Utena and Anthy up to the highest part of the arena while a tree grows and flowers bloom. The idea here is that they, together, are growing and leaving the illusion behind. The most prominent symbol in the show is of course the rose, a classic representation of femininity. Swords are also quite obviously a representation of masculinity. We are all well aware of the inherent difficulties of being a woman. It is not simply discrimination by men; there is also a contingent of women who favor the traditional gender roles. Anthy represents that contingent; she refuses to be anything other than the bride. She is the one who is fought for, but never fights. Utena, on the other hand, dresses like a boy and has no problem with taking up the sword. It is only when she is depressed that she retreats to femininity. However, she discovers by the end of the show that simply becoming a man is also not correct. Utena needs to learn that the world is no fairytale; it is cruel and violent. She learns this through the entirety of the series; discovering the incest is simply the natural progression to the most disgusting things the world has to offer. Utena learns that it is her prince that is causing everyone pain; she learns that he is literally creating a fantasy for everyone. She also figures out that her rescuing of Anthy time and again was motivated by her ego, and not by some pristine vision of what a valiant prince should be. In the end, Utena discovers that no matter how hard you try, you can fail. Now, she is an adult; she has escaped the delusion. Of course, unbeknownst to her, she didn’t fail. Anthy has indeed discovered that she need not devote herself to another if it means causing harm to everyone involved. She has also escaped the delusion. Anthy leaves the school, the illusion that everyone else is still living in, to go find her friend. |
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geishageek
 Posts: 571 Location: Pleasant Valley, NY |
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I've watched Utena twice and I own the manga. The first time I watched it, I had no idea what the hell to think. The second time I finally understood the madness created when Utena loses. She grew up. She no longer idolized her prince and began to be the true adult woman she was intended to be. But the movie was just so bad I couldnt stomach it more than the one sitting. ugh. Did you watch the movie as well or just the show? I really would like to hear an opinion on the movie because everyone only just says how bad it is and never gives an explanation why its so bad. The whole spoiler[lets change into a car thing] is what ruined it for me. Yes, I am all for cheesy antics but I found it so stupid and pointless to the plot.
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8daze
Posts: 92 Location: USA |
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The most memorable part of the show for me was always the shadow girls. A sudden, strange interlude that pops up in the middle of an episode. They never say anything straight out, but they can help you look deeper into each episode.
And I agree, geishageek, the spoiler[car wash scene] was about the strangest thing I've ever seen in a movie.Anyone want to take a stab at explaining the symbolism behind that? spoiler[Washing away the old to reveal the new...car?] |
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Dranxis
 Posts: 591 Location: Ohtori Academy |
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Ha, the car scene was the only thing I truly loved about the movie.
 Up to that point, the wacky symbolism was interesting and everything, but only then did it all seem to make sense to me.. I'm guessing that in the movie, cars are supposed to represent spoiler[becoming an adult, and taking control of your life. Akio, who was a complete wuss compared to his TV counterpart, was unable to move on in life because he lost his car keys: his control of the situation. The car chase was Anthy and Utena's attempt to escape the idyllic world of make-believe and fairtyales that fascinates youth(Ohtori, and the castle on wheels) and enter the real world of adults. Shiori also "turned into a car" prematurely, but ended up crashing because she didn't have the resolve that Utena and Anthy did. ]. At least, that's how I look at it.
Anyway, I would say so much more about the wonderfulness that is the TV series, but at the moment I don't feel much like whipping up a thorough analysis.  ;
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varmintx
Posts: 1235 Location: Covington, KY |
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In case you can't tell by the number of posts I’ve made in the six months I’ve been here, I prefer reading others' opinions, not spewing my own. The only reason i created this and the NieA_7 thread is because there weren't any good threads for them for me to read.
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Raven Shinobi
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You have no idea how much I dig Utena, I heard about the show a few years back, but was hesitant to try it out because of all the homosexual and incestuous themes that it's associated with and since I'm not a yaoi/yuri fan and absolutely don't find incest amusing, I decided to not bother with it, but last year, the show was recommended to me by someone who has similar taste to mine and finally decided to purchase it to quench my curiosity and I'm glad I did.
Warning: a long-ass and probably boring analysis: Art: The art and character design is reminiscent of Versailles no Bara that I was obssessed with back when I was a kid (I heard that ROV was one of Ikuhara's inspirations when he created Utena), but I think I like Shoujo Kakumei Utena a bit more, though I think Oscar is more badass as a heroine than Utena. Characters: this series has some of the quirkiest and best developed cast that I've seen since Evangelion, not to mention all the main duelists -Touga, Saionji, Juri, Nanami and Miki- were voiced by some of my favorite seiyuus
My favorite is Juri, I 've always had a thing for tragic characters though I felt I could relate to Utena more, I've noticed that Juri had a similar demeanor to the heroine of ROV than Utena -they're both beautiful and graceful, extremely skilled with a sword, firm but compassionate, have a strong presence, not to mention they both have tragic backgrounds and a rotten luck when it comes to love. Nanami, though arrogant and nasty, has given me some good laughs, so I loved all the episodes that centered on her, especially the one with the cowbell that I think was one of the funniest episodes that I've ever seen in an anime, I also loved the one with the egg, especially when Nanami imagined what the others' reactions would be if they found about her 'secret' -if you had noticed, everyone's reaction in Nanami's narrow-minded head from Utena to her little clique was identical, which gave us a view on how Nanami was seeing the world through her eyes and how she would have reacted if someone else was in the same situation that she was in at that time. Then comes Saionji, I absolutely loved watching this character and his strange, twisted way of expressing his love to Anthy which I found the most interesting detail about him. I've got to admit that I felt a bit bad for him when she didn't return his feelings -which I at the same time couldn't blame her for, for the horrible, possissive way that he had treated her with. Touga: I was also a bit sad when Utena didn't return his feelings, since he was the only one who truly cared for her, I'm always looking for good fanarts and fan fictions that pair them up together 
That's it for this post, I'll add more thoughts later. |
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Viga_of_stars
 Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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i remember talking about utena with a friend before I've seen the last story arc and after i seen it and him telling me beforespoiler[akio does everyone! utena, anthy, touga, his engaged girl...] im like whoa. hentai. but it wasnt. now its pretty ovious that happened with the 1st 2 but what about the two latter. especially touga.
but the series in a whole i loved. but i dont fully understand despite seeing every ep. the first arc was quickly gotten but black rose i didn't get at all. and the last one i understood a little. but by reading your stuff im getting a slight grasp and wish to rewatch it in new eyes. |
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8daze
Posts: 92 Location: USA |
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We really, really should. That was great. Between that and the spoiler[episode where she hatches an egg], Nanami is officially one of the most unintentionally funny characters ever. |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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I think I'll just start with Nanami in general. (I decided to jump in--when I should be doing stuff for school.) Last spring, there was a discussion over at alt.fan.utena (AFU) where we discussed who we felt grew the most throughout the anime series. While everyone had arguements for all of the characters really, most of us agreed that it was perhaps Nanami that grew the most throughout the show. What we began with was a spoiled, mean girl with a very strong brother complex (to the point of being creepy). Moreover, we had an incredibly naive girl who tried to pretend she was an adult (I felt that was part of what she tried to show when she spoiler[stood in for Touga during his time away from the Student Council]). However, her childishness and naivety was blatantly clear to those watching, from her bullying of Anthy (for being too close to Touga), to her complete devotion to her brother (without truly realizing what it meant), to her belief that she spoiler[laid an egg], it really all showed her immense immaturity. However, we see her change and grow. Slowly, we see her making better decisions. We get to watch her learn what brother-sister love really is, as well as realize that's what she was heading towards spoiler[ and being mature enough to say no when it came to that]. We also saw her finally realize that not everything was about her, not everyone should serve her, and she seems to accept this. My thoughts for this come from the last episode where spoiler[we see her entourage being wooed by her former fanboys, her sitting with Touga and Saionji calmly, and her willingness to be around Touga at all after what happened before]. While I'm sure Utena and Anthy grew more, it was Nanami's changes that were remarkable--it was enough that I actually found myself truly liking the character the second time I watched, even though I hated her for the majority of my first viewing of the series. That being said, there was even more to the AFU discussion. It was shortly after the "most growth" discussion that we discussed which character was least needed in the series. Most of us agreed that Nanami was that character. While she grew so much, she really didn't have much of an affect on anyone around her, not significantly at least. She was her own story, not really a part of the story. Perhaps this is why Saito Chiho did not have her in the original manga, aside from a framed photograph in Touga's room (spoiler[I loved it when Utena and Miki broke in together]...I'm in the minority that loves the manga and the anime, it seems.) She's such an interesting dichotomy, really. She grows so much, yet she's perhaps unnecessary to the story. ...well, aside from being the comedy relief. And being my personal favorite side character. Last edited by Mylene on Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Raven Shinobi
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I believe there was nothing sexual going on between Touga and Akio, since the former made it clear in the Nanami's Egg ep that he was only into girls and seeing by all the women that Akio was involved with I got the impression that he too was straight---and a bit into receiving sisterly love 
I also didn't get the black rose arc that much, was all that to get Mikage to challenge Utena, because that was what all that led to in the end 
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