Forum - View topicYuki Kajiura vs. Yoko Kanno: Your Take
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Tsunami3k: Wow that quite an in depth post. I truly commend you for the effort you put into to it. And I pretty much understand the entire gist of the message you are communicating with the great deal of detail and conciseness of your opinions. As far as the detailed history of each artist's credits I both agree with and feel much more enlightened by facts that I did not know about previously. I would feel bad about disagreeing with you on any of the points you made. However, and a very apologetic however, one additional thing I need to mention and this is merely something that is just important to me but I just really prefer Yuki Kajiura's music over Kanno's. And now after having the .hack//Roots opening song in my head for weeks and then just recently discovering it was also composed by Kajiura-sensei, she has permanently taken my personal #1 spot of greatest anime music composer ever. I'm no authority on music standards so my opinions are purely subjective and should not be valued in any way as to who's music is better.
It may be a matter of personal opinion or it may be a matter of technical merit and real-life aptitude but I place greatest importance in who I personally feel delivers a higher quality performance and does it repeatedly. Many of Yuki's critics say that her style is formulaic and she consistently drives home a particular theme but fails to expand to new horizons. Conversely though, when I hear her music I am never disappointed with what I hear; for me I can depend on the fact that the next song I hear from her is going to uplift me. So in that sense, I think her consistency is one of her most outstanding qualities, not something to berate her for in the least.
Sometimes when you have doubts about an artist you really like; that they can continue to provide you with music you love you tend to avoid that artist for a short while fearing one of these days they are going to produce a song you don't like. That has never happened for me with Yuki Kajiura. Even if I were to try to "run from" her music there's always a song that I discover that I really like and then realize it was composed by her. Completely the opposite is true with Yoko Kanno. I have been "running toward" her music for many years now because of all the great praise she gets from others, but there have only been a few compositions that I have been truly impressed with, the Escaflowne soundtrack being one of them, and a few other that I can't think of off hand. How can Yoko Kanno's music be so great when I try to persue it and find a mix of mediocre and wonderful stuff but when even avoiding Yuki's artistry, it always forces its way into my heart and makes me fall in love all over again? |
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Tsunami3k
 Posts: 43 Location: Overland Park, KS, USA |
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Thank you for the reply; you are generous in calling my manifesto "concise" but I appreciate your kind words. It's a pleasure to get a response from someone who read it in its entirety. My primary motivation in posting was mostly as a cathartic means of resolving my quandary in deciding for myself who I thought was truly the "best" composer. It's all a matter of perspective and, from select angles, I would agree with either camp.
Nonsense; there is no shame in expressing a differing opinion as long as it's done in a civil way (but your delicacy is a rarity in the online World and is appreciated). While I may speak with great passion about those things that truly inspire or intrigue me, please do not interpret my enthusiasm as being closed-minded zealotry or otherwise implying some underlying expertise regarding either Yuki Kajiura or Yoko Kanno.
I can completely identify with your experience. I can't count the number of times I've watched the first episode or two of a show and been intrigued enough by the music to look up the composer here on ANN only to find that it's either Kajiura or Kanno nearly every time. You've also touched upon the heart of what first inspired my deadlock. Because of this very thread I decied to look at my top 10 and top 100 lists on my MP3 player. Yoko Kanno dominiated the top 10 list which, after looking at the titles, is pretty easy to see why (4 were Escaflowne titles and 2 were Bebop titles [very sentimental since they're from my first anime OST ever] and 1 from GitS:SAC). However, when looking at the top 100 list, Yuki Kajiura easily wins. Per album I'd say that I like a measurably higher percentage of the tracks than the average Kanno CD.
I feel compelled to clarify my "talent pool" comment lest it be misinterpreted. My implication didn't regard Kajiura's talent directly but rather her access to as diverse of a talent pool of people to execute upon her musical vision. I think she would be quite capable of composing something on par with Escaflowne (her layered vocals are extraordinary) but, at least thus far, I haven't heard her employ any resources on a scale on par with the operatic tracks on said CD. [BTW, this is 100% speculation on my part.]
I'm really frustrated for those who are of this mindset for they will never come to know the beautiful music that we are so endeared with.
I agree; you've hit squarely upon the exact point I had intended to convey; I hope I did not inadvertently imply otherwise.
Again I agree. While I've never run from or towards either musician in the sense that you refer to, my experience mirrors your own as is evident by my top 10/100 lists but, at least for me, I cannot declare either the winner for the same reasons. I'd say that, on average, I like about 35% of the tracks on the average Kanno CD enough to add them to my main playlist (many tracks are fun and often fit the mood of their anime very well but aren't always tracks you want to add to a list for repeated listening) whereas it is more like 65% for Kajiura. Regarding the average rating of those songs, however, I'd consider Kanno's tracks somewhat ahead. You're completely correct, however, when you say that this is all very subjective. There's definitely enough grey area here for me to commit one way or the other without a guilty conscience but I clearly have commitment issues. I'm certainly not proposing that my perspective is any more valid than anyone else's but I sincerely hope that there's some chance that this discussion might dilute the notion that it must be an "either/or" consideration (as, in some cases, it has seemed to devolve into). I would instead rather encourage people to fully experience and appreciate *both* composer's works. - Tim |
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omnistry
 Posts: 1019 |
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For me it would have to be Yoko Kanno. No matter what anime it was just her music alone had made it memorable (Bebop, Escaflowne, GITS: SAC). What makes her truly great is the fact that her work stands alone equally well. You can put on one of her OSTs, and people would think it would be solely an artist's album; not knowing that they're enjoying an anime soundtrack. If Hollywood one day calls on her to score a film, no doubt she'd be in the running for an Academy Award; no matter what movie it was.
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san-san
Posts: 26 Location: Far Reaches of Space |
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Yoko Kanno works better for me in my book. I have to admit I haven't heard a lot by Kajiura but what I have heard just doesn't attract me as much as Kanno's work does. Like everyone else has said Kajiura's style is formulaic and Kanno has a definite newness and an appeal to that. I suppose Yuki's formula works but I was never completely in love with it in the first place. Yoko Kanno's music has that aspect of something new and works so well with the anime it's composed for my example would be the bonus track on the second Wolf's Rain OST Go To Rakuen used during the final minutes of the very last episode of the series...it brought such sadness and then a sort of hope(if you've heard the song)...in short (I'm not very good at explaining things)it was just an amazing composition and possibly my favorite BGM of all time.
I don't know maybe it's just a matter of whether you like something you know or not but anything I hear by Yoko Kanno i usually end up liking (xcpt for Cowboy Bebop's composition but that's just because a good portion of it sounded country...I don't like country music x_x) p.s. on a side note...would anybody happen to know if the 2nd Wolf's Rain OST has been lisenced and if that's the cd included in the the boxed set? (*feels silly for asking*  )
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Tsunami3k
Posts: 43 Location: Overland Park, KS, USA |
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Sadly, the OST included in the box set is indeed Wolf's Rain OST 1. I've heard some of the second OST and I like it better than the first (of which I really loved the music in the show but for some reason has never stuck with me as stand-alone music [oblique GitS:SaC OST pun purely accidental]).
As far as I know the second OST has not yet been licensed for domestic release but the fact that Trigun: Second Donut Happy Pack was just released after all this time gives me some hope that we'll still see Wolf's Rain OST 2 release sometime in the future. Then again, I had hoped that the powers that be would see the Bebop Remix re-release as a perfect time to issue all of the Cowboy Bebop OSTs but it hasn't happened. <pure_speculation_on_my_part> My fear is that Bandai's penchant for bundling OSTs with limited-edition DVDs has somehow skewed their OST sales numbers and has made them a little skittish about putting out anything but "guaranteed" hits. For example, they managed to get Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex OST 2 [I think] in decent numbers on Best Buy shelves; pretty gutsy and great to see in my book. The only problem was that the CD was also available in significant numbers bundled-in with one of the series special-edition DVD volumes so I didn't see too many copies sell even though it's a fantastic soundtrack. Now if they had instead bundled both Brain Powered OSTs (rumored to be among Kanno's best work) with their full-series Brain Powered brick pack then I think their inclusion could have really helped boost the sales this otherwise marginal title. Sorry if I've gotten a bit off topic; I think about these things too much. If, however, my observations (and subsequent speculations thereof) are even remotely correct then, if Bandai wants to partake in the anime OST business at the level of, say, Geneon (it's good to be the king), they would do well to capitalize on the relatively untapped Kanno fanbase here in North America. There is clearly a strong following here and the only outlet we currently have is to pay a fortune for an import (or corrupt our collections with bootlegs[which I am not advocating]...gah!). </pure_speculation_on_my_part> So anyhow.....what was the question again? ;-P |
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Raven Shinobi
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Yoko Kanno -while Kajiura's music is always good to listen to, her works in general lack variety in Kanno's works and some of them give me a feel of deja vu, like some of the tracks in Mai-Hime reminded me of tracks that I've heard in .hack//SIGN, her latest work on Xenosaga III suffered from the same problem as well, while many people on the game forums (most of them were Kajiura's fans) praised the music like it was a Godsend, many of her tracks were actually recycled from her past works on Xenosaga II and even Madlax.
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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Although I respect both Yuki Kajiura and Yoko Kanno for their amazing works, I definately prefer Yoko Kanno.
While Yuki Kajiura has a very beautiful hybrid style, I can't listen to her for hours at a time, because she gets repetitive very quickly. Not to the point where I can't tell the songs apart, but just enough to make it dull. Although her music works well with the anime set to it, it's not something I can listen to and appreciate alone, with the exception of a few songs (Echoes, B.T, and Tasogare no Umi from .hack and Salva Nos from Noir) Yoko Kanno composes a wider variety of music, always using similar chords (I've noticed), so she also has a kind of 'signature style'. But the main reason I prefer her over Kajiura is that her compositions make me feel. Particularly the music from GitS:SAC. The flowing orchestral parts mixed with techno beats and haunting vocals almost seem to make my heart hurt after a while, and I love that feeling of being so moved. Kanno's music evokes such incredible images and feelings that I can listen to her all day and never get bored. In short, if I just want to put something on while I do schoolwork, I'll take Yuki Kajiura, but if I'm writing, drawing, roleplaying, or doing something else where I need to have emotions running through me, Yoko Kanno all the way. |
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dgreater1
 Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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I'd probably go with Yoko Kanno on this one for the reason of not getting tired of listening to her music. On the other hand, Yuki Kajiura's music is really fun to listen to but it gets a little tiring after a while (that's for me though). Perhaps because it's like listening to some orchestra (or probably, because all I ever heard was those kinds of her composition), the feeling is always the same. Ah? Did someone post that already? Eh... nevermind...
Darn right, my money will definitely go to Shinji Orito, his composition is so attractive and relaxing (from lively to wacky to weird to depressing), specially when it's backup by I've's singer. I'm worshipping... erm... I mean enjoying his Air Game OST, Clannad Game OST and Kanon Game OST as of now  ; But I may be biased since it's Key/Visual Art's we're talking about... but I guess not since I'm not the only one who thinks that it's the greatest and he's probably the first that hook me to this BGM thingy.
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Yuri Kawai
 Posts: 31 Location: Lesbos Island, where everyone is Lesbian |
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Yoko Kanno IMHO:
- Well diversed - Worked for many popular animes (Cowboy Bebop alone boosted her reputation to near max) - Worked with many talented people Yuki Kajiura IMHO: - Sticked with her unique style - Worked for many sucky animes (many people dislike Noir and .hack//) - Except for Emily, most of the vocalists she hired can't even pronnounce an Engrish word right It seems that most of you chose Yoko Kanno because of her popular works like "Cowboy Bebop", "Escaflowne", or "Wolf's Rain". And you listened to one or two songs of Yuki Kajiura, and decided that her music is repeative. I didn't see anyone mention Yoko Kanno's "Brainpowerd" OST. It's great, but the anime sucks, so no one knows. That's the case of Yuki Kajiura. Most of the anime she worked in are sucky (even Noir, Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle, .hack//SIGN are not that great), people just know, say, "Mezame", and "Salva Nos", and say that her music sounds the same. Listen to all the tracks in Noir/hack/Madlax/Mai-HiME/Eremental Gerade/Tsubasa Chronicle. Each of them has different a theme. I myself have all Yuki Kajira's soundtracks, and most of Yoko Kanno's. I think they both are very talented composers, and I like Yuki Kajiura more. Edit: Holy cow, it counts that I edited for 6 times when I only clicked once 
Last edited by Yuri Kawai on Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:19 am; edited 10 times in total |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Heck, I have both Brain Powered OSTs and all the Turn A Gundam OSTs, and those are even less known. Not to mention her soundtracks for live-action stuff like 23 Ji no Ongaku or Ashura-jo no Hitomi. Plus game music like Nobunaga's Ambition and Napple Tale. Trust me, I'm sure most the Kanno fans here are well-versed enough in Yoko Kanno to have good reason to pick her as their favorite artist. |
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Raven Shinobi
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I don't mean to sound hostile, but why does all Kajiura fans jump to the conclusion that if someone preferred "X" composor over Kajiura or said that her music was repetitive means that he/she isn't familiar with her works? Like that time in another forum when discussing Xenosaga music and I commented that I prefer Yasunori Mitsuda and that his music fitted the mood of the game better than Kajiura's, though I mentioned that I loved "Godsibb", "Testament" and "Hepatica" and that they were some of best tracks that I've ever heard, Kajiura's fans started bashing Mitsuda and argued that I don't know squat about Kajiura and brought up how she's more famous in Japan than Mitsuda. Well, I don't own every single album by her, but I've listened to enough of her works to give it an evaluation and what I personally noticed in her works is that in every soundtrack -with the exception of the first disc of .hack//SIGN that I loved almost every track in it- there are a handful of awesome tracks and the rest are generic and not memorable. She's talented alright and I like her style, but her music could use some variety. |
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Meccanica
 Posts: 101 Location: Brookline, MA |
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I almost feel bad that I haven't heard more of Kaijura's work... but I have heard some of it, I just can't say I was inspired to find out more about her. I definitely go for Kanno. Tank! may be one of the most memorable opening themes I have ever heard, but I listen to almost every other song from Bebop, (and GitS, and any other Kanno music I get my hands on) and love all of them.
I also think, though, that music is not a complete experience by itself. The best part (for me) about most music is the images, characters, emotions, etc. that I associate with it. For example, (and forgive me for giving only Kanno examples) 'Blue' is a very powerful song for me, but I don't think most people who hear it alone, ie not while watching Bebop, would be nearly as moved as I am by it. When I hear it, I recall the emotions that I felt, and imagine Spike feeling, when I finished the show, but otherwise it would just be a song. Even when there is no particular character or event to attach the song to, I still feel more involved in songs like 'The End To All You Know', or even more upbeat, purely instrumental songs like 'Too Good Too Bad' and 'Torukia', because I have an association with the visuals, themes, and characters of Bebop and GitS. That's definitely possible with any show, but I just didn't like .hack or Noir much. In fact, I tried to like Noir again recently, and bought vol. 2 used, but I was rather disappointed. I really want to like the concepts, but they just aren't executed to my tastes. I'll keep an ear out for Yuki Kaijura, though. I did like a few songs from Noir enough to pay attention to them, and I rarely can tell whether I like music the first time I hear it anyway. |
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Yuri Kawai
Posts: 31 Location: Lesbos Island, where everyone is Lesbian |
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I agree that Hepatica III ~ I believe in you, Lamentation , Jr. III (Xenosaga) etc are pretty cool.
Actually, I changed my mind. Now I snub Yoko Kanno. Her music are mostly popular american genres. Jazz, Blue, Techno, etc. Not cool. She even made one rock song (In My Dream), which isn't exactly the worst rock song I've listened to. Tank isn't among the decent Jazz pieces in my book. Stamina Rose is "meh". And I don't like Steve Conte's voice. Stray, for example, is bad, especially the full version. The only good thing of that song is the lyrics, which is not Yoko Kanno's. Blue, my favourite song is cool thanks to the lyrics and the singer (again, not Yoko Kanno's). Yuki Kajiura writes her own style, writes her own lyrics. You can't deny the fact that they both are not normal composers. They make anime soundtracks. Which leads to two things: - The songs are used as background music, not meant to be listened alone. I think Yuki Kajiura's music fits the mood of the anime she composed to much better. Noir, for example, won't have the haunting atmosphere without her music. When she makes normal songs, they are good. Listen to Vanity. I think Yoko Kanno thinks about polishing her own image more than the anime when she is composing. Someone said that some of Kajiura's songs is generic and not memorable. Yeah. I agree. Because you can't expect the background music to be some grand emotional pieces while the characters are eating ramen on TV. - Because the are anime OSTs, the popularity of the show affects the soundtracks'. Le Portrait de Petit Cossette is pretty good, Madlax too, but most people only know about Yuki Kajiura for Noir, .hack//SIGN, and Mai-HiME. Even a n00b heard about Cowboy Bebop. Without Cowboy Bebop, or were it a sucky show, Yoko Kanno is nobody. I respect Yoko Kanno for "Goodnight Julia", "Memory of Fanelia", etc, but in my opinion, Saints + Eyecatch A + Eyecatch B > anything Yoko Kanno can throw in. No matter what you say, Yuki Kajiura is number one for me. And I'm starting to dislike Yoko Kanno because people always compare her to my favourite anime composer. 
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Murasakisuishou
Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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....Well that's stupid. Yuki Kajiura and Yoko Kanno are possibly the two most well known anime composers out there, of course people are going to compare them. And so what if Yoko Kanno takes American genres and composes pieces to fit them? You can't say that her music just knocks off or imitates existing songs, because it doesn't. Sure, she works within other genres, but you can't deny that the music she writes fits the series it's supposed to go with. I disagree with you completely about Steve Conte (even my eyes start drooling  ) but that's sort of beside the point 
Also, I was a fan of Yoko Kanno before I saw (or heard the soundtrack from) Cowboy Bebop. It was actually her work on Earth Girl Arjuna which interested me. Seriously, listen to 2nd Life and tell me that's not the best damn helicopter chase scene music ever. Then there's Ghost in the Shell, which quite arguably has one of the most evocative soundtracks ever written. Listening to the music actually made me want to watch the series. It doesn't make any sense to say that Yoko Kanno is just out for herself, because even if that were the case, her music has continued to be incredible, both within the context of the anime it's written for and without. You can't be out to pump up your own image and do so by writing sucky music. |
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Raven Shinobi
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Heh, I can't blame you, I kinda started getting sick of Kajiura when her fans started bashing Mitsuda-sama in the Xenosaga boards, but that didn't deter me from enjoying some of her music til now 
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