Forum - View topicMawaru Penguindrum's dub being directed by... Steven Foster?
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SpacemanHardy
Posts: 2509 |
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.............I'm just happy that I can watch the show without having to read the subtitles.
Is that so wrong? 
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Maidenoftheredhand
 Posts: 2634 |
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Well Ill give the dub a chance but this is one series I will most likely be sticking with the sub for.
I loved how the original track was a mixture of new & veteran seiyuu. It probably had my favorite overall cast of 2011. |
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MadShadow42
 Posts: 56 |
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I can watch most anime in either language, but I tend to prefer dubs. However, there are still some dubs I can't stand. Steven Foster is responsible for quite a few such dubs. I will give the Penguin Drum dub a fair shake, but I nonetheless feel justified in my pessimism. Worst case, I'm fine with the show's Japanese track.
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Finally got to listen to this dub.
I was completely right about every single thing that I said. I'm not usually so arrogant, but I'm just aghast at this lack of quality. In fact, the only thing I was wrong about as regards this dub is that it's even WORSE than I thought it would be. This makes the Angel Beats! dub sound like Baccano! or something. It's grotesquely, unfathomably bad. Horrible pronunciation (Him-marr-ee, Tuh-BOOKI,) a nigh-incomprehensible script that requires actors to speak super-fast and still overtake flap on many lines, (count the shots where they've cut away from a character but they're still talking, filling the two seconds of original silence before another character starts, it's mind-blowingly lazy matchwork,) a few "I'm so funny" Fosterisms when the script isn't lazily squishing the direct sub translations into things, ("Facts, my FOOT!" Shouma shouts while confronting his brother in what's supposed to be a serious scene...) And that's all writing alone, not even getting into the horrible miscasting where Kanba sounds ---flat---, Shouma OVERA~~~CTS every single line to the degree that grave dramatic scenes become comical, and as has been posited before, Himari and Ringo's VAs OBVIOUSLY should have been switched, so much so that even without prior VA familiarity you can hear the *other character* in their voices: Rial's Himari sounds like a proper Ringo, Neves' Ringo sounds like a proper Himari. Blake's Shouma makes you want to laugh and cry simultaneously at how bad his acting is, and Guardiola's attempts to hide his accent and obvious lack of context for anything he's saying make him sound stoned, bored, and pretty pitiful. I watched all of High School of the Dead in dub, along with several other recent Sentai-Foster stuff, but I don't think I can do that here, even to analyze it as I normally would. It's incredibly painful for anyone who enjoys and respects the show. I am soooo angry that this quality of non-work gets a stamp and print onto DVDs. I would rather not have a dub at all so I don't accidentally have to listen to it when I hit play or, much more importantly, anime newbies who prefer dubs aren't shut out to an excellent show because of an english language version that makes it garish and unpleasant. EDIT: And apparently, Ringo's favorite word in the English dub is "Fate." Not "Destiny," which is what it should be. They even say "Destiny" IN ENGLISH in the Japanese version to emphasize the difference between "Fate" and "Destiny." Shouma hates Fate. Ringo loves Destiny. It's a very important distinction. But nope, they just used the word Fate both times, who knows how they'll switch the words around and fudge about with the meticulously crafted script of the show later. UGH. Just UGH. I had a little more faith in the guy than *this.* (Ringo suddenly starts using the word Destiny a couple episodes later. They just flip-flop on word choices and dump all over the intention of the original script. Laziness everywhar...) Last edited by JacobC on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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darkchibi07
 Posts: 5510 |
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Geez, now I have to compare that to what THIS guy says in Fandom Post forums:
http://www.fandompost.com/oldforums/showthread.php?17855-Penguindrum-Dub&p=152062&viewfull=1#post152062 |
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danilo07
 Posts: 1580 |
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I must say that from the things I have heard on the internet the response to the dub has been overwhelmingly negative.It is truly rare to see that someone actually likes.
Anyways does anyone here have any information when Kaze UK will be releasing DVD for this?I tried searching all over it on the internet but I couldn't find it anywhere. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8499 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I am morbidly curious.
My expectations were low, anyway. This is Sentai Filmworks, after all. |
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NJ_
 Posts: 3100 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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Enjoy! http://torchika.tumblr.com/post/37965886151/reuploaded-hopefully-this-works-so-i-was |
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Animerican14
 Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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Geez, we're really going to start the discussion back up again this early? I understand that a few of our pre-orders are already in the process of heading towards us (though mine will be getting in my hands later than I wanted; one is accidentally headed up to my college address, but being presently home for the holidays, I went ahead and ordered another copy...)
Anyway, I had the opportunity to listen to the whole video twice over, and check a few random inane twitter statements, before this thread was resurrected. Honestly, I thought the clip shown was a solid effort overall, pretty in-line with library-chan's developing opinion on Fandom Post. Only things that felt a bit weird was the pronunciation of Himari & Tabuki, "Tactics" instead of "Strategy", and the quacks for the Penguins (though I guess it'd sound more 'unnatural' in English to say "kyuu" instead?); otherwise, roles sounded pleasant enough, even better than expected. Neves as Ringo surprised me positively (I really loved her aggressive-sounding This SUCKS monologue), as did Flecknoe as Masako. Even Shepard as Shouma was fine for me-- I didn't see it so much as 'over-acting' with him, give how emotionally un-subdued and easy-to-freak-out the character generally is in these earlier episodes. Seeing some more extended thoughts on the matter in the posts above, though.... I wondered, did we really watch the same dub? I went back, looked through the vimeo video, and... ended up with about the same conclusion. 
I thought that I had a good enough ear for dubs. I've been known to be harshly critical of books and films where none of my family members or friends were. But maybe in the realm of anime, I've developed too positive a tolerance for anything technically above 4kids 'quality.' Maybe I feel generally okay with not all 'good' or 'listenable' dubs being Baccano or Cowboy Bebop or Wolf's Rain-tier (heaven knows, though, I loved those latter two dubs to death). Maybe as long as none of the main characters whose voice is constantly screechy or inappropriately smarmy or 100% flat or very unfaithful, the dub's fine (and thus by what I've heard, by those standards, Penguindrum sounds fine right now, compared to the lower quality of much of the older ADV dubs I've heard and Utena's dub). Maybe I'm simply a lower life-form than JO for having a somewhat more positive outlook towards the dub. 
So, JesuOtaku.... for discussion's sake, is your opinion above based on the vimeo sampling video that has caused a bit of a twitter storm? Or has your own copy actually arrived early? Have you been able to sample a few whole episodes' worth from a friend's, even? I know how often others look to you for your opinion, but I'd find it a shame to guillotine this dub (even if it has Foster's name stamped on it) and dump its corpse in an unmarked grave if all non-owning-the-set-yet fans really only have these clips to go by so far. I'm not ready for any final judgments myself, seeing as I don't have access to anything else but this clip of not-the-most-optimal-sound-quality that showcased all the voices (though it honestly did a bad case of showing off normal Himari, since the narrating girl thought it was great to whine about Kanba's voice as she spoke). Whatever the case... I'll definitely give this dub a shot for at least a few episodes, if not the whole first set. EDIT: I just re-examined both language versions for the start of episode 1 & 2 where Shouma and Ringo respectively muse on their hated/favorite word, to compare the two language versions. And... I think based on the clip shown, nothing was gotten so wrong OMG in the dub wording-wise, based on the premise that both JO and I have the same exact dub clip to go by. Both Japanese and Ringo's VA both use "umei" at the start of these episodes (so Ringo doesn't say "destiny" in English at the start of episode 2); both [gg] subs and the dub are translating "umei" as "fate"... where am I supposed to be offended again? I feel the witch hunt has been executed too early.... |
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Wolfenmoon
Posts: 1 |
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I would have to agree with JesuOtaku. While I am a bit more lenient where Shouma is concerned as of episode 2 (he's okay, not horribly cast and I can see him getting into the role as time goes on), I agree wholeheartedly that Himari (especially Himari), Kanba and Ringo are horribly cast.
Himari's casting here though is the worst offender. When I learned of the VA list and I saw Monica Rial's name I knew her voice wouldn't fit. After all, if you've heard one of Monica Rial's voices you've heard them all. Seriously, did the voice cast meeting go like this? ADR personnel 1: So how old is this Himari character? ADR personnel 2: Twelve or younger I think... Foster: *whips out phone* Don't worry guys, I've got Monica Rial on speed dial. (I honestly think this would be the reason why Rial was cast over Neves if there actually was any competition.) I mean did they even consider anyone else? We need some new blood, because every single adolescent girl is played by Monica Rial. It gets to the point where I believe she's the only one trying out for these things. While she does the job well, she uses the same voice for everything and Himari's character does not have that voice. Upon my first viewing last night of the first two episodes, the same thought crossed my head that Neves voice sounded like a better fit for Himari than Rial. Too bad it didn't end up that way. What a disappointment. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8499 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I think as far as Shouma and Kanba, the voices themselves are decent, but the actual acting is very awkward, especially for the former. Monica Rial's Himari is certainly underwhelming, mostly because it doesn't seem like she can find any kind of consistency in it. She actually does an okay Princess of the Crystal, but otherwise, it's all over the map, which is surprising, because Rial is a very talented voice actress. The thought that she might've been better as Ringo may have some ring of truth to it, but I actually think Ringo's VA does a good job with her.
Overall, there's this pervading feeling of everything just being a bit "off". Like it's a dub that is almost there, but not quite up to snuff. Especially with quacking penguins and lines like "You perverted pervert!" and "Facts my foot!". What were they thinking? But it's to be expected of Sentai Filmworks. Still disappointing, though. |
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Animerican14
Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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I guess you got your BD already, penguintruth? And you've seen a few episodes or even the entire set? I guess I ask because the flurry of venomous criticism spawned as a result of that scattershot vimeo clip of the dub has really dulled my appreciation for critical 'perspectives' of the dub when it still hasn't gotten in many people's hands, however relatively mild they might be. (I still don't know for sure if JO had anything more to go by when she made the judgment she did above-- she definitely hadn't gotten her own copy by that point, looking at twitter.)
By "all over the place" and lack of inconsistency... what, does Monica Rial variate between sounding snarky and sounding demure & snark-free as regular Himari? Is the voice 'shaky'? It's just interesting to see this criticism in light of one of the the very first bits of commentary of I've read on the dub at Fandom Post.
Those two quoted lines.... are they, uh, really so bad in context? Anyone can see the redundancy in "You perverted pervert", but granted, that was said by some unessential friend of Ringo's that doesn't seem particularly bright and could easily be shoehorned into the valley girl archetype if a director really wanted to. That seemed like a somewhat reasonable character and script judgment to me. And as for "Facts my foot".... I have a harder time seeing issues with that. I mean, I still use the "__ my foot" idiom myself-- is that really so uncommon and "out there"?-- and there definitely didn't seem to be any malicious intent for inappropriate comedy. Maybe if you single out the entire four word expression, it sounds like an awfully hilarious phrase & strawman for Foster's scripting, but in context, I found it to be an alright reaction to Kanba's "look at the facts" of Himari's condition. I'm more sympathetic to the opinion on the penguin-speak in the English version. Outside the reasoning of "well, I guess "kyuu kyuu kyuu" would sound just as silly if not sillier & more 'unnatural' in English", I don't feel the penguins will be able to emote & showcase their personalities as well if it largely is just quacks. Add to the fact that I just recently tweeted Monica Rial asking if each of the penguins (#1-3, Esmerelda) would be voiced by their respective 'owners' (as it was in the original Japanese), and she said "I can't speak for the others, but I only voiced Himari. You'll have to get your Rial penguin fix with Pen Pen.  ", and I'm concerned that the penguins will all share the same voice actor/actress. Hopefully this somehow isn't the case, and if it is, then, well, there better be some kind of differentiation in the penguins' voices.
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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After I got my copy, it just got worse. I hadn't heard Tabuki or Yuri in English yet. After I have...ugh. And I got to hear more terrible things from Blake, Illich and Monica too! Joy! (Not joy. I really feel bad for the actors here. They don't even sound like they're having fun, they almost just sound confused most of the time. If they *were* having fun, that's great, because they certainly wouldn't want any of this in a reel displaying their acting ability.) I agree with some more forgiving statements above, in that not every voice or line is terrible. I'm not trying to be nasty about it, but I gotta be honest: 60% of lines spoken, being gracious here, are at least "bad" either in delivery or straight-up translation being artificial and crappy-sounding. After seeing more of the set, I could just splice in here dozens of other lazy/stupid things I heard in the dub, but I won't. Overall, it's just a poor effort. People that are forgiving of it, I think, are people that watch a ton of anime, dubbed, and are used to all ranges of dubs and the awkwardness of poor translation. They want to forgive it because they want to support English releases, and there are too many people out there who give excuses for not buying the official release because "dubs suck" or whatever. I understand. I get the desire to support a dub if you feel there's even a little good there. But I just can't support an effort as phenomenally lazy as I hear on Penguindrum and to be frank, most releases from Sentai these days, particularly with Foster at the wheel. I get upset at Bang Zoom when they do this too, which is why I was so happy I gave Madoka's dub a chance and came to realize it was one of the most effort-laden things Bang Zoom's done in years, shaky early episodes aside. When I judge a dub, I try to look at it from the perspective of someone watching a cartoon not making allowances for "Oh it's a translation from Japanese" or "This voice actor is familiar to me and they are good in other things," etc. I try to approach it from a cold entry, and I don't think anyone that has never seen Penguindrum before would want to watch it based on the first episode in English. It barely makes sense and not in an enticing way, the acting is bad and awkward, and the parts that are supposed to be funny fall flat. It's just...a bad dub.
EDIT: As regards the penguins, that's one complaint I didn't agree with! I was perfectly fine with the penguins all going "wark wark wark" instead of "kyuu kyuu kyuu" because, hey, it's just animal onomatopoeia. "Wark wark wark" is a perfectly cute noise on its own, and it's the sorta sound that penguins make in English. I agree with that choice completely. That said: they should have had the VAs of each protag play their respective penguin. They didn't? Way to miss the point even harder there in this dub, Sentai. |
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Adam Wednesdays
Posts: 30 |
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Aside from the clips that made it online, I haven't watched the dub yet. What I saw told me I'd really have no interest in watching it, solely on the awkward and/or bad performances I was hearing coming out of the actors.
Some of the more niggling complaints I saw people making were blown out of proportion. The biggest one was people jumping on the fact that Ringo's voiceover in her first big appearance has her saying "fate" instead of "destiny," when even the sub group's translation had her using "fate" at that point (and it makes sense, because it's purposefully a counterpoint to Kanba's voiceover narration that opened episode one when he talks about "fate" as well). At that point I think people were already worked up and piling on any little thing that looked like it could be wrong, but in this case it was people latching on to something that wasn't even a problem. Ditto "survival tactics" instead of "survival strategy." I happen to like the fan translation, "strategy," better, but those two words are synonyms and there's no functional difference between the two; it's an inconsequential matter of taste at that point. But even given that those issues were blown out of proportion, that doesn't change that what I heard of the dub sounded pretty bad and like it was made by people who didn't really understand what was going on in the show, or didn't really care. And there's a couple of things on the subtitled version that make that point even further, namely a couple of cultural notes that get put on the screen. The first one comes when the two boys pass by the Takakura house and are talking about "what the apple means." A note appears at the top of the screen saying (roughly) "The children are discussing 'Night on the Galactic Railroad,' which apparently ties into the show thematically later on." (italics mine). I read that and I couldn't help but chuckling. "...'Apparently?' You mean you don't know?" Maybe it was just a bad choice of words, but adding a note and then saying "and apparently this actually means something!" makes it seem like the people putting it together don't actually know what they're talking about. "I read somewhere that this apparently means something, so we should probably throw a note in there." Add to that that if you've watched the show before, you know what the importance of that moment is even if you're like me and you haven't ever seen "Galactic Railroad;" the fleeting reference to another work is an easter egg, it's not the main point. So pointing out the reference is essentially acknowledging trivia: a nice thing to know, but not at all necessary information. Why then also add, "oh yeah, and it might mean something for this show too I guess?" And then the second cultural note wastes time explaining something that no one paying the slightest bit of attention would need explained to them, that the incidental female character in Ringo's first episode talking about "triple lace" and "going in for the kill" is talking about her underwear and seducing her date. Why make a note for something that needs absolutely no explaining, and that has no real relevance to the show? Strange choices all around. BUT... I'm still happy that this is getting released. It has a perfectly servicable subtitled version, so I don't have to listen to the bad dub. Yes, I would have loved for this show to have a great dub; it really would have benefitted from a great english track so that I'd have a version where I could watch the screen and all the business and symbols that are happening without having to read the script at the same time. But I fell in love with this show long before it ever had a dub, and I certainly don't need one to continue to enjoy it. |
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Divineking
 Posts: 1297 |
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Well I got my set today and yeah...the dub is pretty bad so far.
There's nothing really wrong with the scripting since it actually matches up to the subs pretty well but the acting is really off. Blake Shepard's voice is really too deep for Shoma and it sounds really wooden half of the time. Illch Guardola's Kanba is okay, but it's really hard to take seriously when he's trying to hide the accent half of the time and the times he needed to sound angry it just felt kind of off and forced. Monica Rial's Himari is probably the best out of what I've seen so far...but only as regular Himari. Her voice as the Princess of the Crystal sounds halfway between her little girl voice and her adult voice(which is odd because the adult voice would have fit)...and the end result sounds incredibly forced rather than hammy like it should. As for Emily Keves's Ringo it has the same issue as Blake Shepard's Shoma in that the voice is too deep for the character and as a result she sounds less creepy than she should in stalker mode. I can agree with the consensus that she and Monica Rial would have been better off switching roles here. All this being said the dub isn't the massive trainwreck I expected it to be and you want to be able to focus on the visual symbolism in the show without being distracted by the subs it's watchable...but the japanese version is clearly far superior here. Foster made a lot of missteps with the casting here. |
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