Forum - View topicSuzuka
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Bruce Lee
 Posts: 715 Location: Seattle, Washington |
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I actualy just finished this show last night. From the first episode, I was thinking another Love Hina clone to be sure, but after reading some people's ideas on it here in the forum, I decided to give it another go around.
I'm really glad I did, because I found this to be a great series. The animation wasn't the best, and thespoiler[ love triangle] wasn't groundbreaking by any means spoiler[(1 will "never love again" and 1 will "never give up" - that's been done a thousand times)], but even with it's cliches, it was still very well done. All of the characters, and their backstories and drama - especially Honoka and Asahina - felt very real and believable. It's sort of funny that the 2 shows I watched prior to this had similar hooks and themes - Princess 9 and Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien. Both were great, and had good dramatic stories andspoiler[ love triangles too], but I liked Suzuka much better.spoiler[ Although Asahina's hot and cold feelings and actions towards Akitsuki were sometimes a turn off, they never (IMO) hit full-blown soap opera style like the other 2. To me, this made Suzuka really hook me in, and much more enjoyable. The ending was a good one also - just enough closure.] Music-wise, I don't care much for the harmonica, and it's prominent on a few tracks on the OST. The DDR-esque super-hyper techno doesn't do much for me either. Past that, there are a few catchy j-pop tracks and some interesting instrumental pieces on the soundtrack that sound great. I am especially fond of the piano pieces that played during Akistuki and Asahina's more intimate exchanges. One in particular, Tooi Hi no Kizuato, almost reminds me of Thomas Newmans' American Beauty from the film of the same name. Overall, I woud highly recomend this show to any romance/drama fans out there. It starts a bit slow, and may be nothing groundbreaking, but it gives a good solid effort. It's deffinitely worth watching. |
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kai0227
Posts: 8 |
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I really liked the instrumental pieces in this show too. Sounds like the soundtrack is pretty good. Where did you get the soundtrack? I'd definitely like to give it a listen. |
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deafcon
 Posts: 22 |
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I started this series last night. I've watched 7 episodes so far, and I'm really enjoying it. It's not really anything new and different, but it is entertaining and well put together.
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Gauss
 Posts: 519 Location: Finland |
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I think what made Suzuka so fascinating was that it took the cliche elements, and then constantly surprised you by doing something unexpected with them.
Suzuka's main theme and the piano version of Tooi Hi no Kizuato are extremely nice. They are also sort of similar, which is one reason I suspect some people felt "the piano piece" was overused as a mood setter. I didn't mind the harmonica tunes but I was annoyed by the BGM played during comedic monets, such as Yasonubu's theme. They don't quite fit in with the other BGM pieces IMO. But "DDR-esque super-hyper techno"? Which song(s) would that be? Gecchu perhaps? It's certainly the weakest vocal track. |
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Bruce Lee
Posts: 715 Location: Seattle, Washington |
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Yeah, that's probably the name of it. I'm trying to remember it, but all that comes to head is "if you were here with me..." from DDR
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Ranma824
 Posts: 456 |
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Suzuka was a great show! There was a hole in my Drama-anime pie graph after the DISSAPOINTMENT that was Air TV. Since it's just my opinion, I'll just leave it at that. I also liked how the show dealt with the Honoka-chan (#2 girl); giving her "day in the sun". Anyway, Suzuka totally met my Drama needs.
Episode 5 was easily the funniest episode in the series. Carp~ Carp~ Carp~ Hiroshima~! and UDON FROM HELL!! 
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kai0227
Posts: 8 |
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My favorite thing about Suzuka was that it stuck closely to the manga. I haven't watched a lot of anime versions of mangas I've read. But the ones I did watch were generally disappointing. I'm not saying that they were bad animes, but when the manga works well (and usually that's why they make it into an anime) why mess with it? I understand some it may be impractical to adhere strictly to the manga for some series. There could be too many characters, too many plot twists and the such. Either way, I'm glad the Suzuka anime stuck closely to the manga because the manga was great.
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Azathrael
 Posts: 745 |
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I watched this for a second time and the more I watch it, the more unrealistic it is. I've just never met someone in real life as dumb and clueless as Akitsuki. He knows what "ecchi" is, he's way past puberty, and yet he doesn't have the brains to figure out that spoiler[it's wrong to buy your girlfriend's birthday present with the girl you still like. Or hell, it's wrong to get a girlfriend to begin with when you still like someone else.]
If I realized anything in watching anime is that watching it twice makes all the difference in rating anime - if it's still good after 2 or even 3 times, the anime's worth mentioning. If not, it's just your average anime. Because the second time is when you see things more objectively (ie: they could've done better here, or more dialogue there, etc). |
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deafcon
Posts: 22 |
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I just finished it a few minutes ago. Overall, it's good, but not great. The characters were very interesting, and I think they could have done more to develop the supporting cast. The main conflict seemed to drag through the middle of the show. It seems like they could have done some more interesting things with the other characters instead of the same Suzuka gets pissed off at Akitsuki thing. I'd like to see them do an OVA, just to have Sakurai find someone. I also thought it would be funny to pair up Hattori and Hashiba as a couple. It would also be fun to see Akitsuki and Suzuka as a regular couple while the main plot revolves around someone else.
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Gauss
Posts: 519 Location: Finland |
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Didn't you notice thatspoiler[Akitsuki was ready to give up on Suzuka before Honoka (with impeccable timing) went for him? What's so wrong about moving on to somebody else at that point? In real life lots of guys and girls would do it if their original feelings are unrequited. ] Whether you are doing it out of pure or not so pure motives the key lies in trying to make it work. |
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Azathrael
Posts: 745 |
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No, I didn't notice because he never was ready. spoiler[He never said he was giving up, nor did he ever act like he was going to. He only went out with Honoka because of her kiss, which makes perfect sense given that it was his first and he's so clueless to love to think that it was "love". Even when they're dating you see Akitsuki still care for Suzuka more than he does for Honoka, which he should've realized himself. Like I said, it's completely unrealistic to not notice yourself thinking more about the girl next door than your new girlfriend, especially for someone who's such an amateur to love and should have been completely entranced by his first girlfriend. What actually happened was that Akitsuki still liked Suzuka, got surprise kissed by Honoka, and went with the flow like any love amateur would've done.] spoiler[And for the "pure" or "not so pure" motive, I can only say Akitsuki was being a self-centered and extremely conceited bastard in trying to make his relationship work with Honoka. It's only "pure" on the outside because he's such a clueless dunce in love. From the overall perspective, he was only acting to self-satisfy himself through his relationship with Honoka. He's always more interested in "being the good boyfriend", which would not matter if his girlfriend was Honoka or not. He even uses that as an excuse to have Suzuka go shopping with him, to buy his girlfriend's birthday present. To refresh your memory, it wasn't Suzuka who first suggested a necklace as a birthday present. And of all people Akitsuki took advice from, he decided to take Suzuka's opinion to be the most reasonable (again, her opinion was not the first). What does that tell you? If that isn't the most unpure motive ever, he should be officially classified as mentally disabled.] Kind of long but I wanted to be clear instead of saying "because I think so". I just don't think a person like Akitsuki could ever exist in real life. It makes such a difference in rating Suzuka, since the entire series is primarily based on it. |
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Gauss
Posts: 519 Location: Finland |
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I can understand being annoyed by Akitsuki but I'm a bit puzzled that you place so much importance on him having to be a realistic character. Suzuka certainly connects with its audience because people recognize many of the situations. But just because the show contains many familiar elements doesn't make it realistic overall. There's too much exaggerated behavior in Suzuka for that to be true. To me the show's attraction is based on recognition, which is quite possible to achieve by overly emphasizing various traits, actions, situations and so on.
I think one of the great things about Suzuka is that people read such different things into what the characters do. Personally I think Akitsuki's love life would be a lot simpler if he was indeed a "self-centered and extremely conceited bastard". Instead I see somebody who wants to please those close to him and at times worries too much about what they think of him. I do agree he is somebody that goes with the flow, since he is the kind of guy who reacts rather than thinks things through. These traits combined with his inexperience is what leads him into trouble all the time. And now from generalities to spoilers: spoiler[What I think you missed is that Akitsuki's confidence was at rock bottom from both failing at sports and from Suzuka loudly and repeatedly making it clear she doesn't like his attentions (though secretly feeling more ambiguous about it). Honoka swooped in at a time when he had already begun to think of Suzuka as out of his reach. As for the gift, like most men he doesn't have much confidence in his own gift-picking skills, but neither did he have much confidence in the few locals that he knows after hearing their suggestions. The most sensible suggestion happened to be what Suzuka also thought of. I saw confirmation rather than uncritical adulation as the reason there. Her eminent good taste (whether it be gifts or picking toilet covers) and lack of credible candidates leads to his spur of the moment request for her to help him. In addition he likes to please people (which fuels his good boyfriend syndrome) and here it's expressed in a chance to normalize his friendship with Suzuka. Stupid to ask her along since at some level he is aware of what Honoka thinks about Suzuka, but his muddled thinking blots out that thought. Mind, I'm a bit confused over what you consider impure motives here. I think you mean Akitsuki's approach to being a good boyfriend. But then you put so much emphasis on him listening to Suzuka's opinions that I wonder whether you are saying he's trying to impress her too with the good boyfriend routine? I don't really see the latter being the case, if that's indeed what you meant.] |
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Azathrael
Posts: 745 |
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I expect it to be a realistic anime, given the theme and the uncommon usage of "normal" hair and eye colors. Not even KGNE used "normal" hair and eye colors. If the emphasis of Suzuka was exaggerated personalities, it's all the more reason to call it unrealistic. If it's not realistic and it's overdramatized, Korean dramas do a better job. And considering the nature of anime characters (ie: having weird hair colors, unrealistic personalities to begin with, 100 laws of anime, etc), Suzuka is as realistic as it gets unless it's some kind of historical anime like Grave of the Fireflies.
Akitsuki, in not one single way, is "somebody who wants to please those close to him and at times worries too much about what they think of him". He's a simple-minded teenager with pride. You don't see him going out of his way to please people, you constantly see him saying to himself, "what's wrong with her [Suzuka]? It's not like it's my fault for this or that". spoiler[He doesn't join the track team to please Suzuka; he joins because he wants to be noticed by her. Ultimately he joins to benefit himself, not her. He is constantly thinking about himself throughout the entire series especially during his "going out" period with Honoka (ie: being the "good boyfriend"). The only exception is Suzuka, whom he actually cares for because he likes her.] spoiler[If he really didn't care for Suzuka, he would've just quit the track team. His decision to stay was ultimately because he still had feelings for her. He doesn't even have a reason to be in the track team, other than wanting to be noticed by Suzuka, until he states that he's going to be "number 1", which in the end is to be acknowledged by Suzuka anyway. So yes, he may have thought Suzuka was out of reach, but he still liked her when he started dating Honoka. Like I said, it was more of a "go with the flow" decision than to say, "Akitsuki started dating Honoka because he liked her (more than Suzuka)". This was a mistake on his part, which he should've fixed. And even if he didn't notice his mistake and didn't fix it (he never did in the end), he shouldn't have taken Suzuka with him to pick out Honoka's birthday present, or keep Suzuka for an additional night at his hometown, suggesting something stupid like "let's go watch the fireflies". It's just an unrealistic lack of common sense.] spoiler[I already mentioned the fact that Suzuka was not the first person to suggest a necklace as a birthday present. It was Saotome, whose idea he dismissed simply because she's always drunk? I ask it as a question because she wasn't even drunk at the time of his asking and it'd be ridiculous to say she lacked style. If anything she's more stylish than Suzuka. So why did he ignore Saotome's advice yet ask Suzuka to actually go out with him to buy the present? I wouldn't be surprised if this was intentional in order to show that Akitsuki wanted Suzuka to go with him, regardless of her sense of style and regardless of her suggestion. And saying she has "good taste" is stretching the truth. He was always bothered by her nitpicky shopping; he didn't necessarily conclude that she was actually "good" at shopping.] spoiler[What I'm saying is impure is what I assume to be true from the actions of Akitsuki - he was trying to get attention from Suzuka in terms of more than "just a friend", which really is impossible when you like the person. He asks Suzuka to go out and buy Honoka's birthday present with him. He asks Suzuka to stay one more night at his hometown to watch fireflies at night, fully aware that Honoka is worried, especially because Suzuka is with him. The tip-it-all is that he actually performs his mock-confession to Suzuka, then actually believes that she was saying "yes" in earnest when he was the one who started it as a joke. It doesn't take much brains to figure out any kind of "yes" in that situation would've also been a joke, unless you liked the girl to want to believe the answer was in earnest. Which then proves that he still liked her, despite already having a girlfriend. This may not be considered cheating*, but it's definitely impure.] * I know that in the US, this wouldn't be considered cheating. But in Korea, and I'm pretty sure for Japan as well, just having someone else in mind is a form of cheating (There is a specific word for it). To actually act like Akitsuki did, I wouldn't be surprised if some Asians actually considered it cheating. |
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Gauss
Posts: 519 Location: Finland |
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Hmm, am I right in thinking you liked Suzuka the first time around, or else you wouldn't have watched the show again? Shouldn't those expectations of realism have been laid to rest during your first viewing? Suzuka is a romantic shounen drama that often applies the conventions of the genre in unexpected ways, yet this doesn't avoid the fact that those conventions are frequently unrealistic to begin with.
Yeah, Akitsuki has pride and constantly harps about how hard it is to understand Suzuka. But a major reason why Suzuka is such an enigma is because she blows hot and cold from an early stage in the show. spoiler[And while Akitsuki's first reaction is often that he's not at fault, he does usually realize he needs to kiss and make up. You don't see Honoka rushing to make up with him when something goes wrong, and while Suzuka does on occasion do it, she wouldn't be caught dead admitting she was doing it. Akitsuki is usually the one who apologizes and the one who tries to smooth the waters, whether it was his own fault or not. One of the few times he fails to do it is when he joins the track team. A colossal brainfart compounded by his pride but at least he was charmingly upfront about his reasons. 
Later he actually comes close to quitting the track team. If Yasonubo hadn't tricked him, and if he hadn't rushed to Suzuka's side when Arima bullied her, then Akitsuki would probably have quit. Later on, when he stays overnight with his parents, his motives are arguably not completely pure. Though that's not the only reason why he reacts so surprised during the mock confession. Suzuka actually opens her heart there, and he probably picks up that vibe. Unfortunately the reason she dares to open up, is because Suzuka knows fully well she can safely brush it off as a joke. But when he tries to come up with a present, his desires are so firmly in the subconscious that I have difficulty ascribing impure motives to asking her along. First of all it's likely to have a completely opposite effect on Suzuka than attraction. Second is that he has little confidence in everybody else, both as gift pickers and shopping partners. His aunt is a parent-figure and as such something few teenagers would want to involve, his cousin is too young, the idol not at his beck and call, Miki not yet a friend, the guys are guys and from past experience he knows that involving the university students will cause him embarrassment (Saotome might be sober now but she is despite that one half of the disastrous duo). In a poor field Suzuka happened to be the one he was most comfortable with. As for being bothered by her nitpicky shopping, that's just normal guy behavior when forced to endure the female shopping experience. What he was left with was the impression she is very careful in picking just the right item.] |
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Azathrael
Posts: 745 |
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I watched it the second time because I did enjoy the first time. However, the first time I was more captivated by the plot than anything else to look for irregularities. The second time is when I looked at it more objectively. And suprisingly, Suzuka in terms of plot progress was a bit more realistic in using the classic "car accident" on a side character rather than the main character like KGNE, but the characters of KGNE were much more realistic than the characters of Suzuka. And to state that they're unrealistic to begin with is not only obvious, but also irrelevant to this discussion because anime such as Suzuka aims to have realistic characters, and thus appropriate that its audience comment on its flaws as well as its good points, keeping already in mind that they'll never be as realistic as "real".
spoiler[I don't see how Akitsuki's "always first to apologize" attitude disproves anything of what I've said. Most of the time he is the one who is at wrong and I can equally argue that the main reasons for his apologies are for himself, not for the other person. If Akitsuki hadn't been so persistent in keeping a good relationship with Suzuka, she could've simply maintained a mutual relationship where nothing ever developed beyond next door neighbors. Normally, one can say it's all too common for one side to apologize in order to restore a healthy relationship. But knowing that Akitsuki likes Suzuka, it's impossible to say that his sole purpose of apologizing is simply to "make up". The smallest hope is there when he says sorry, to try and develop further as more than friends. Same thing for Honoka. The entire relationship can be summarized as self-satisfaction for Akitsuki, and until that can be stated otherwise, all his actions therein can be said of the same. I simply cannot see his apologies as indicative of him being "somebody who wants to please those close to him", given the circumstances of who he is apologizing to and what he hopes to achieve from it. If such a personality were to characterize Akitsuki, there were plenty of better ways to show it through other means.] spoiler[I can agree that he would've quit the track team, I can't agree he would've given up on Suzuka. Joining the track team was only one method to get attention from Suzuka anyway. The tip it all was actually the fact that he performed the mock confession, not that he believed Suzuka's "yes" to be true. That is just the extra of the tip it all. Why even bother mock confessing? A simple explanation would've pleased both Honoka's worries and Suzuka's curiosity. This is where you can claim that he wants to please people by doing things they ask for, but I claim that he wanted to do the mock confession because it was specifically Suzuka whom he was mock confessing to.] spoiler[I can't believe that his desire to get Honoka a good birthday present was so strong that it could be considered "subconcious" to the point where he didn't care if it was Suzuka going with him. In fact, it was probably his subconsciousness that made him want to go with Suzuka over anyone else to begin with. Here's another point that's unrealistic - whatever made Akitsuki think Yasunobu was not a valid advisor in choosing a gift? Akitsuki knows Yasunobu is a flirt who hangs around a lot of women. However, has he ever denied the fact that Yasunobu knows a lot about women? No, he asked for advice all the time. How did Akitsuki ever come to conclude that being a flirt disqualified Yasunobu from being able to choose a good birthday present for a girl? So asking for advice about girls is ok, but asking for advice on a birthday present for a girl is not?] I'm going to conclude my opinions now since in the end everything is a personal interpretation of facts. I cannot rationalize what I see as unrealistic and any kind of admittance that such a person as Akitsuki could ever exist in real life would make me think man reached a new low. Obviously I don't expect a perfectly realistic and rationalized characters in anime; the entire purpose was to throw my ideas out here and get feedback of what others thought. And frankly, I have no more ideas to develop for this anime. After this post anything I say will just be a reiteration of what I've already said in my previous posts. |
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