Forum - View topicSword Art Online (TV).
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MrTerrorist
Posts: 1348 |
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And now for something really different. Preview for the next episode "General of the Blazing Flames"
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9145 Location: New Hampshire |
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Hmm, looks like Kirito is finally facing a worthy opponent.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24836 |
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Who he will Gary Stu with complete ease whilst showing no character development and violating plausible game mechanics! ... Sorry, just anticipating the inevitable commentary from the usual sources. |
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dragoneyes001
 Posts: 873 |
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watch the general turn out to be the creator of SAO and he's another immortal object. |
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getchman
He started it Posts: 9145 Location: New Hampshire |
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Eh, let em. At this point, I don't really care anymore |
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dragoneyes001
Posts: 873 |
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hold up a sec! that'll defeat the "you Must change your point of view to mine because I have an objection" in the argument. |
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GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
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First of all, once again, "the strength to match" was something that Kirito already possessed. If the mages hadn't panicked, and gotten off their next volley, it would have done just as much damage to Kirito as the previous volleys. An ordinary "I just logged in for the first time yesterday" player who lacked Kirito's hax, bug born, "I really am a cheater now" stats; that cast the same spell, and got lucky enough to roll the same monster and induced the same amount of panic, would rush forward and use his claws to stab the guy that broke formation... ...and take off 10% of his victim's HP, if he was really lucky. Then his opponents all calm down when they see how lacking in power the huge monster is, and one of them casually hits him, taking off half his HP, and probably knock him out of the form. Then they finish killing him. That's why this spell is being filed under illusion. It grants form, but does not grant power, much less matching power. Now, would it be more accurate to label this transformation magic? Perhaps. There are certainly works of fiction that have transformation magic that grants form without power. Those works of fiction are irrelevant in this case. That the labeling is a stretch, does not change that it's a common, and generally accepted stretch. Mesmers from Guild Wars do things that could easily be labeled conjuration magic, yet it's labeled illusion magic. Final Fantasy Tactic's illusionists would be much more accurately named elemental masters, or conjurers. Conjurers being what they're named in Final Fantasy 14. The discrepancy in this case being more understandable when you look up conjurer in a Japanese-English dictionary, and see that the word used for them can be translated either way, with a couple of other options as well. The bottom line is that labeling magic is a very nebulous thing. What's accurate for one work of fiction, is not accurate for another. For example, sorcery in David Edding's Belgariad is a matter of will and word, just gather your will, and speak a word to unleash it. Sorcery in Slayers is a matter of chanting long spells, drawing on your own mana pool, and occasionally borrowing power from high ranking demons. In some works of fiction, casting magic is physically exhausting. In others, you can cast magic until you're out, then run a marathon. In yet others, you've got a set number of spells that you have to re-memorize a spell each time you use it. So if a series lumps weak transformations in with illusions, it's illusion magic. Complaining otherwise makes no more sense than complaining that they're all casting spells without the use of wands.
Because, again it does not increase power. It's use would be exactly for what Kirito used it for - to spark panic and confusion. Hear a group of hostile players coming? Cast "Disguise as a monster" spell ahead of time, and the hostile players round the corner to come face to face with a scary monster, possibly giving a change to land the first hit, or break past them.
No, the convention is that if it can tenuously be included in illusion, it often is, particularly in videogames as programing the sort of range of effects that would make what is more commonly thought of as illusions useful would be difficult. Yes, it does give the writer a "get-out-of-jail-free card" as what you are taking issue with isn't his writing, you're taking issue with something that's an industry wide standard in the real world for the kind of product the author has set his work in. Heck, for this issue, it approaches the level of taking issue with a generally literary standard of being very haphazard as to as to what magic is named what. Complaining that one series like Everquest or ALO lumps weak transformation magic in with illusion magic, while another series labels it transformation magic makes about as much sense as complaining that magic in one series needs chants spoken in an arcane language, another series needs chants spoken in plain language, while in yet another series it needs no words spoken. Ultimately what you're complaining is that the fictional power of one series is different from the fictional power of another series, and that you disagree with the particular common labeling scheme it's chosen to go with. That's not a problem with the series or the writer, that's a problem with you. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Jeez. When GrayArchon makes the same points I've been making over and over again, he gets complimented for finally bringing up some intelligent points, while I get... no responses. Grr.
However, one of the things GrayArchon said about how illusion magic is often categorized is something I hadn't fully considered. From that point of view, I no longer have an issue with them calling what Kirito did (regardless of the actual mechanics involved) "illusion magic." Furthermore, I don't see why other races seem so contemptuous of it, as it can be pretty useful in the proper situations. |
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Oroboro
 Posts: 143 |
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Illusion magic in general can be effective, but it's something most effective in the hands of someone clever and tricky.
Compared to the straightforwardness of fireballs or healing spells, from the outside perspective most people would see the newbish Spriggans using illusion magic in very amateurish and basic ways. And the really good ones, well, ideally they wouldn't realize they're being tricked at all. 
I wonder if there's an illusion spell to disguise yourself as a member of another race. In a game like this, you could really cause some havoc. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I think we have gotten now to the point of "He may have transformed, but it is still classified as 'illusion magic.'" I don't really object to this and I don't think most of us would. They can call it whatever they want and if people want to technically classify it under some kind of illusionary magic, so be it. We'll say he transformed by illusionary magic, how about that? Seems to be a pretty simple solution to me. If you want to debate about whether or not that transformation caused his stats to go up, or if he had the same stats but just had increased size and reach (plus the addition of a tail of course), that is an interesting debate, but perhaps a side debate. I am not sure if it matters all that much whether his stats went up significantly after the transformation since he still clobbered the enemies. If his stats were the same as Spriggan form, then it just means he's extremely over-powered in Spriggan form, which I don't think anyone disputes either. (i.e. stats carrying over from SAO.)
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24836 |
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 Sorry, dude. I confess that I don't read every single post related to tangential matters that don't really interest me (i.e."zomg, did the writers violate sacrosanct game plausibility here???"). For whatever reason my eye just happened to fall on GrayArchon's post and he laid out the case in a very simple, clear, easy to understand way that even a non-gamer like myself could grasp. It so clearly crushed dtm42's nonsense, that I couldn't help remarking on it. But if you've been doing the same thing, consider yourself complimented, too! 
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Aw, shucks. I feel a lot better now. Though I admit that I'm not sure my case was laid out quite as clearly as his was. More generally, MMOs, let alone MMOs of the future, tend to have a lot of rules and strange things about them that are either ambivilent or counter-intuitive in how they are actually implimented. The deal with the shields not actually covering the width of the bridge, yet appearing to block the whole bridge is an example of this. Anyone who has played MMOs for a while has come across many instances of that sort of thing. Even very good MMOs approximate a lot of things... such as when you think you've dodged something due to the graphical indication (the attack didn't appear to hit your avatar), but you still take damage. So these sorts of things when applied to an anime don't bother me as long as they're not extreme. |
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ookamigirl
 Posts: 2274 Location: Croatia |
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Episode 20
spoiler[Nice save Kirito! ^^ Kirito vs General Eugene! That was a really really nice fight. Impressive! He sure made an impression on the Salamanders. Him and Leafa have become pretty inseparable. Looks like Asuna will save herself before he gets to her LOL] |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Where did Kirito get all that game money?
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Oroboro
Posts: 143 |
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I would imagine the same place he got his stats.
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