Forum - View topicNEWS: Otakon Enforces Copyright at Artists' Alley
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fivemoon
Posts: 15 |
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Funny you should mention Hirano, as he did once author a Cowboy Bebop H doujinshi. As for Otakon's fan art policy, which I guess isn't even finalized yet, it's still very offputting to know that they're considering that route. Don't artists tend to garner notice for their original works by first catching the eyes of people looking for fan art? If fan art is only allowable for display purposes, then potential customers will just think, "Oh, I can just look online if I'm only able to look," and then bypass the Artists' Alley altogether. 
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domino
 Posts: 373 |
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If it's because of copyright concerns, they might as well ban doujinshi selling at cons. In dealers rooms, almost every table sells at least SOME doujinshi, and usually for two or three times the original cost. They're the ones making the profit.
Fanartists, on the other hand, rarely find buyers -- and even when they do, most of it goes into paying for the table they rented at the art gallery. Maybe some coffee. They're not making fortunes selling fifty-cent fanart bookmarks. And I doubt the Japanese creators of these characters care. Many of them started their careers as mangaka by selling fanart in doujinshi. And isn't Japan's largest anime-related convention, Comiket, a doujinshi-exclusive event? If anyone cares about copyright issues here, it's the just American companies being whiny. |
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Steventheeunuch
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Thing is, Doujinshi hasn't always been associated with messed up Detective Conanx Future Boy Conan Yaoi Shota cross stuff, rather you'd find a lot of Doujin to be original works. Japanese artists care, to the point where there can be limits to the ammount of comics printed. You just dont hear about it in japan as often as you would here. |
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MTierce
Posts: 33 |
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After reading some of the comments, I think its useful to remember the purpose of copyright. Copyright is not meant to "protect" the creation of an artist. It is meant to promote the community's welfare by encouraging art to be created. A policy such is this runs counter to the intent of the copyright laws, which exist soley to increase the amount of art. By disallowing fan art production, everyone loses. The community loses by missing out on some wonderful artistic creations. Fan Artists lose because they can no longer make even a few bucks off what is essential a unique creation. The original creators lose because this hurts both fan support and exposure. This is exactly the opposite of what copyright was meant to do.
I think that we have grown to view copyright in a "reversed" way. We think that it grants rights to a creator, when in fact it limits the rights of everyone else. By publishing a work, the author relinquishes exclusive control of if it for compensation from the community, which can be in a number of forms, but probably the most common is monetary. In exchange, the community gets to experiance the work. |
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Rune71
Posts: 7 |
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Guys. Not official Otakon policy. This has been made clear several times. Wait for the actual policy to be announced. You guys do not have any idea what youa re talking about until that time.
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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The way I understand copywrite to work in regards to fanart is that if I want to draw a picture of Naruto, I can, and nobody can stop me. If I want to sell my picture of Naruto then I can, and nobody can stop me. Legally. If I want to make a hundred copies of my picture of Naruto and sell those, THEN someone can stop me, because it's no longer an original work my me (the piece was original, if not the character depicted in it), it is a duplication, and thus falls under copywrite laws.
Of course, it's much foggier in relation to digitally colored works, since there IS no "original" copy, and even if only one print is ever made of it, it is, in a sense, a duplication. |
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AstroNerdBoy
 Posts: 413 Location: Denver, CO |
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The problem is that in Japan, that's just what they do -- pat them on the head. Copyright holders and fan artists (doujinshi) have a fairly nice relationship in Japan. Several doujinshi artist have then risen to become professional artists. And doujishi is sold, though the initial costs are cheap. Even in Japan, some doujinshi works sell for HUGE sums of money after thier initial selling (try getting some of Kajishima-sensei's old Tenchi doujinshi works). Heck, even in manga and anime, one can at times see references to doujinshi works being sold at some convention or other. American companies are more rabid about copyrights which is why they pay huge sums of money to congress folks on both sides to keep extending the amount of time before a work will go into the public domain. That's why there's no such thing as an American version of doujinshi. Can you imagine the horror of DC or Marvel seeing fan comics, even if given away for free, depicting their characters engaged in all sorts of sexual activities?  ;;;
Well it is pointless anyway since it appears that this isn't final policy...yet. Last edited by AstroNerdBoy on Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JTtheBrick
Posts: 99 |
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We're talking about selling fanart on Otakons backyard, not yours  It goes with the territory.
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fivemoon
Posts: 15 |
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I acknowledge that it's not official (hopefully it won't be), but it's still useful to talk about this sort of thing. If it becomes actual policy, it'll be too late to do anything about it other than protest.
I heard from a sci-fi congoer that limiting print sales of fan art at 100 or less (something about "local distribution") won't get an artist into quite as much legal trouble if s/he gets a warning to cease by rights holders. |
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subaru
Posts: 120 Location: Australia |
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fan arts are alrite, but when they sell them for money, then its not right. I don't see a problem with fan art competition, and/ or having fan arts on display for public to view, but when u make a profit out of other people's creation, then thats not right.
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Dejiko
 Posts: 276 Location: Holland (between Great Britain and Germany) |
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First of all, let me make clear I know this is not the official Otakon policy. However, it is a viable 'what-if' scenario that warrants discussion.
I don't feel people should charge for individual drawings of copyrighted characters, but doujinshi should be exempt from this. As long as people are not making profits (which can be set by limiting the amount of each or total of title(s) that can be brought with them), no-one's losing money. Receiving money for your books to pay for printing costs and a table should not be considered making a profit. Affordable offset printing for small print runs is still pretty much reserved for the Japanese and the alternatives aren't that cheap either. If someone sells a book at $5, he or she may very well be losing money... doujinshi is about showing your love for certain characters by creating artwork for others to enjoy. It is in that way not different from cosplayers who have been around since the dawn of western fandom in general. Posters before me have pointed this out as well, but if I were Kouta Hirano and saw someone selling a doujin of my work; yeah, I'd pat him/her on the head and buy a copy. Even better, most doujin authors would happily offer their favorite artist a copy of their book. Both of these might sound like an alien scenario to corporate lawyer-happy America, but on Japanese events such as Comiket, this is an everyday occurance. It's the reason fanbases thrive for such a long time, even for series that are by all means considered commercially dead. |
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Rune71
Posts: 7 |
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You know something interesting? The only time the words "fan art" are ever mentioned is by AnimeNewsNetwork. This seems like it may just be referring to things like printed out bookmarks using official images from adds, or other concepts of that like, with printed or ripped images.
I am really curious about the end legal wording overall, seems AnimeNewsNetwork may have really dropped the ball on this one. |
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fivemoon
Posts: 15 |
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Fan art is when the artist makes an original drawing that's based on (but not a copy or tracing of) an existing character(s). "Unlicensed derivative" I believe the legal term is. |
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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Not that doujinshi are generally being circulated in large numbers.... most of them aren't even printed but rather photocopied in convenience stores. Also, Japanese artists OR their companies don't care. They realize that fanzines are essential in keeping a fandom (= market) alive, sometimes years after the actual series has finished. So while they all know about doujinshi and copyright they won't usually interfere, unless something catches their eye. Take the Pokemon (?) incident, for example, or Yasuhiro Nightow who only cared because the doujinshi in question was placed next to the official manga in a store. But otherwise no, you don't see the artists or companies enforcing copyright at say, Comiket. Rather, you see them compiling "official doujinshi" anthologies or selling official fanbooks at the same Comiket where doujinshi of their works are being sold. There are mangaka who even read doujinshi about their works. Hell, there are some who even like them and encourage their readers to send them doujinshi. |
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MTierce
Posts: 33 |
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I don't think it's quite as simple as that. If creation of fan art is a good thing, then it follows that encouraging fan art is also a good thing. Being compensated for your work is a very powerful motivator. Now, the question is does selling fan art hurt the original creator. I think its hard to equate the buying of fan art to lost sales for the creator.
I don't see a difference between doujinshi and commisioned fan drawings. Legally they are both doing exactly the same thing - using copyrighted characters without permission for money. |
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