Forum - View topicDifference between dubbed Cardcaptors to the original CS.
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AzN_dT_StReEt
Posts: 13 Location: Washington |
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Hey all so I've been hearing a lot about how the dubbed version of Cardcaptor Sakura known as Cardcaptors is a complete "bastardized" version of its original. So the question here is how is Cardcaptors so much worse then its original? Was it just that people didn't like how the dubbing was done? Cause' to me the show overall looks rather wholesome so I cant see much that would've changed from its original to the dubbed version that ran on Saturday mornings.
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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It's not the dubbing people are upset about (most people at least). It's the editing on each episode and that they completely leave out episodes that people dislike it. They also tried to make a show for both boys and girls when the show was originally intended to be for girls.
Last edited by PantsGoblin on Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4518 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Rather than beat a long-dead horse, I'll just link to a good general overview.
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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I would say this one paragraph from the link is the main reason people dislike it:
I honestly thought the dubbing was ok for Cardcaptors (although the English voice of Sakura could never compare to the absolutly adorable cuteness of the Japanese voice). |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6897 Location: Kazune City |
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I think that there are some links in the CCS Encyclopedia entry that will give information about this. . .as a general overview, here are some things that cause problems:
1) Re-ordering and deletion of episodes. 2) To go along with (1), they started with episode 8 (when Li Sharan is introduced), and changed the show's name to "CardCaptors" to try to make it about the "team" instead of about Sakura. 3) Changing the opening theme animation and music; removing the Leave it to Kero" segments. 4) Complete Americanization/deculturation; removal of Japanese/Chinese writing and any references to those two cultures. 5) Name changes: Sakura remains Sakura (though pronounced incorrectly), but most others have their first/last names changed to Western names. 6) Relationship Censorship--I don't think CCS would have been considered a "wholesome" show by US TV standards, considering that Sakura, an elementary school student, has a serious crush on her brother's high-school aged friend. That isn't a spoiler since it's in the first episode, but also spoiler[both Sakura and Shaoran get all starry-eyed over members of the same sex, specifically Mizuki-sensei and Yukito, respectively. Oh yeah, speaking of Yukito and Sakura's brother Touya...um, yeah. Beyond that, there's Rika's crush on her teacher, which he seems to return to an alarming degree.] 7) Opinions may vary, but I have the first movie, and think that the dubbing is awful--personalities sound completely different, and most people sound valley-girl-ish. I remember one quote that explains Cardcaptors' failure: "Girls didn't watch it because all the elements appealing to them were cut out, and it was still too girly for boys." |
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rocklobster
 Posts: 200 Location: Planet Claire |
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I cannot believe that Matt Hill sounded so awful in the dubbed version as Kero-chan! I mean, he was great in Gudam SeeD as Kiro. Did he sound awful on purpose. I had a hard time not laughing when I told my cousin "don't worry, that's the only time I know of that he sounds so awful. He can pull off a good voice." Maybe he just wanted to fit in?
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Jake3DTrains
Posts: 32 |
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I do not think it is fair to criticize for pronouncing names "incorrectly." American accents aren't necessarily the same as Japanese ones; you don't see too many English-native people pronounce Mexico "Meh-hee-koh," do you? That is why I feel perfectly content when I pronounce Sakura as "Suh-koo-ruh," and the like.
People need to understand that people have different accents. Simple. |
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shirokiryuu
Posts: 714 Location: Northern California (SF Bay Area) |
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It's quite annoying however... I get a little irksome when people pronounce my last name incorrectly... but then again "Karaoke" and "Karate" are commonmly mispronouced as well. Why keep Sakura's name anyways? they changed everyone (i believe) from Tomoyo to Eriol... What's so difficult about pronoucing it correctly anyways? Sa-ku-ra (even the long "u" is more acceptable) unlike other languages, Japanese has a pretty easy pronuciation system... Mispronunciations are thigns i can let pass, but they still annoy me |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Posts: 6897 Location: Kazune City |
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There are different accents, and then there is simply saying things wrong--most names are not that difficult to pronounce, and I think it's a sign of respect to other cultures to make an effort to pronounce their words as correctly as possible. Even in an English -language version, the names are still Japanese, and when I hear things like Kaede in Angelic Layer being changed to "Kadie" (when it should be 3 syllables as ka-e-de), I can't help but think, "boy, they completely ignored the original on that one  " (Of course, I make an exception for names that are obviously Western, like "Christopher.") We might not say "Meh-hi-ko," but most people, aside from Napoleon's mom, say "quesadilla" (~dee-ya) and not "quesadila" (~dil-a).
Sorry to hijack this thread a bit. Sure, we don't have to be purists in our daily conversation, but I hold the people whose salaries I help pay by buying DVDs to a higher standard. |
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shirokiryuu
Posts: 714 Location: Northern California (SF Bay Area) |
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Haha.. yeah, once again the "Japanese don't pronouce names correctly either" argument. I think all companies should try their best to pronouce it correctly, espicially for languages like Japanese when it's pretty easy to pronouce however i'll let some things past like when the "u" is too long. like sah-ku-ra- versus. sah-kra. Or "shi"'s too long.. like "Ka-Ka-Shii" versus "Ka-Ka-sh" and slow "yo"'s ... "Kii-yo" versus "Kyo" Though i have to admit i have a pet peeve when people pronouce "Ryou" ... "Rai-yuu", not "Ri-yoh" but i'll yet it pass to be nice |
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Ruri-chan
 Posts: 47 Location: tampa |
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That was a great read.  They hit a lot of the detail that was not-so-good with CCS. My main beef, aside from the "everything changing", is that they changed the whole STORY. Instead of Sakura having to become a cardcaptor and find all the cards with the help of others and other stories...
It became a competition with Shaoran to capture all the cards. spoiler[Sure that was the case when Shaoran first arrived on the scene, but that became unimportant as the episodes went on, when he becomes more and more aware of his feelings for Sakura =D] There's no forgiveness when you mess with CLAMP's original story. |
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Jake3DTrains
Posts: 32 |
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Speaking of Japanese people mispronouncing English names, I do not quite understand why some people can forgive them for that, yet are able to bash English dubbers for mispronouncing Japanese names. If we have no respect for the Japanese language for mispronouncing "Sakura" or whatnot, then obviously they have no respect for us if they pronouce English names like "Christopher" or "Edward." Basically, both are even, and neither are doing anything more right or wrong than the other. I'm not at all targetting anybody specifically here, though.
She was going to be renamed Nikki (or something), but fans protested against it. |
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Bosque
 Posts: 102 Location: Chile (castillian-talker) |
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It's really strange to me to know that english dubbers mispronounce things.
Spanish proncunciations are almost the same as japanese (sakura sounds the same in correct pronunciation in japanese and spanish, also Ayeka, Ryu, Urotsukidoji and Shuten Dojiro), the worst misrponunciations coul be "Tézka" instead of "Tezuka" but it's cause japanese really pronounce it like that (the same to "Sáske" instead of "Sasuke") but when thing are dubbed from english, the dubbers also pronounce words always good and just like they shoiuld sound in english. Also, here we had the original CCS on TV (but dubbed, and the dub was fantastic) and some day (i think some really bad day) i saw "Cardcaptors" on an USA tv station and it was really bad to me, everything was different and changed just to make it more machist and as other guy said before, it still was too girly for boys but now too "for-guys" for girls, really bad. * sorry for the bad english, it's cause i'm from Chile and here we use spanish. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Posts: 6897 Location: Kazune City |
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It's not so much disrespecting the language as it is disrespecting the original work. Use of mangled Western names in the Japanese dub isn't taking a character name and changing it, as it is when English dubs make drastic changes (one of the worst offenders is "Himeno" in Pretear, which sounds 90% different in the dub). Maybe we are being a bit hypocritical in giving Japanese VAs a free pass on this, but as I've mentioned on other posts, part of the problem lies in the differences between the languages. English, to a native Japanese speaker, is much harder to pronounce accurately than Japanese is to an English speaker. With 3-5 exceptions, all of the sounds in Japanese exist in English. However, several consonant sounds, and even more vowel sounds found in English do not exist in Japanese, meaning that there is a real physical barrier to saying Western names correctly. Compounding the problem is the fact that Japanese cannot have "consonant clusters," meaning that words like "Christmas" pick up some extra vowels and become "ku ri su ma su." (Aside from words using the syllabic n (ん) sound, that is.) I'm willing to be forgiving, especially on longer, more complex names, but I think that a component of a "faithful" dub is staying as close as possible to original names and terms. The problem is that dub actors, knowing how the names should sound (either from the Japanese audio track, or ten minutes' worth of reading some introductory Japanese book) and having the physical capacity to say them that way, choose not to. And to me, that is nothing more than linguistic lassitude. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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The only reason why I cut the Japanese more slack then the Americans when it comes to pronouncing foreign names is that Japanese is lacking certain sounds, so it's much harder for them to pronounce English than it is for English speakers to speak Japanese. Japan doesn't have consonent endings to most consonents, and doesn't have distinct sounds between many English sounds, which makes it much harder for them to correctly pronounce things. English speakers, on the other hand, might have a little problem nailing the Japanese R/L and T/D just right, but basic pronounciation is easy. I just expect an English speaker to be able to say "sa-ku-ra", I don't expect them to roll the r/l just right or anything. And yeah, the Cardcaptors dub scrubbed all the charm and flavor from the Japanese version. They completely dropped the ball. |
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