Forum - View topicSword Art Online (TV).
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rosebowl89
Posts: 25 |
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The way you see the interaction between Kirito, Asuna, and Heathcliffe is all up to interpretation. Sure you could see it as them fighting over Asuna like she is property and Heathcliffe wants to force her to stay in the guild and treating her like an item. Or you could see it more not as Heathcliffe trying to keep Asuna, but Heathcliffe trying to force Kirito to join, knowing that he wouldn't back down from a challenge and treating him like an item to obtain to further the guilds reputation. I took it as the later, other will obviously interpret it differently.
Also you have to consider how selfish it would be for Asuna or any top member of a clearing guild to just up and leave. Decisions like that could result in more deaths among the front lines. It really is too bad in an earlier episode when Asuna and Kirito were fighting over a strategy to take down a boss, they didn't show the duel between them that lasted 10 minutes, showing how close they really are in terms of skill. IMO Kirito seems a lot stronger than he is due in no small part to the lack of other front line fighters displayed in the show so far. |
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Rhyono
Posts: 1039 |
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I agree. He is probably on the creator's radar because of getting farther than anyone else in the beta and spoiler[he's probably the highest level player.] |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15523 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Someone was putting Kirito's new skill down to Gary Stu status, but my immediate thought was that his spoiler[lone behavior must have got the attention of the creator who sent it to him. This means he is watching them somehow.]
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18265 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Making that kind of assumption about the shop keeper is one thing. Making assumptions about a romantic pairing that seems like it might be central to the story going forward is an entirely different matter. Regardless of my nitpicking here, though, I think I've made clear in past posts that I really do like the idea of Asuna and Kirito together as a couple and do want them to be together. I just want to see it be legitimately developed.
Oh, I fully realize the spoilered part, and I suspect that you're probably right about the rest. I've also thought, too, that this behavior of hers is more her natural character, while putting up the front of being the tough vice-commander was something that she just did out of necessity. The whole thing with the cooking in the previous episode and using Kirito for cover in a couple of non-combat situations between last episode and this one also seems to allude more to her having a more girly character in the Real World while the game world was always meant to be a place where her alternate persona could be unleashed. (I've seen this happen frequently with RPG gamers in tabletop games.) She is the one character who has been implied to have a conflict between her game and real-world personalities, after all, and these could, I suppose, be interpreted as signs of one bleeding into the other. But I hope that's not the case, as it also casts Asuna as a weaker character.
Yeah, that's also been my suspicion, too - especially your second point. Or perhaps it's something that's built into the game that only triggers when one's done a sufficient amount of solo action, and that's why a) no one's seen it before, and b) it isn't officially listed, as listing that it can only be earned like that would distract from the social aspect of the game that the developer wanted to witness. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I suspect that you are probably right about spoiler[the creator of the game sending that to him, as that is pretty much the only way it would make sense given that it mysteriously appeared six months ago (in the story). Someone must have sent it to him, and the creator seems to be the only one with power in this system. That being said, I was wondering if the creator might have some other reason to be interested in him rather than just because he is playing as a lone wolf - for example, maybe the creator is related to him or knows him in real life somehow.] That being said, I do think this special ability does increase his Gary Stu status just by making him that much more of an idealized "wish fulfillment" character. Ironically, as I said earlier I still enjoyed the whole thing because I'm enough of a fantasy RPG lover to get a kick out of abilities like that. I thought this was the best episode yet, but I do still see that as adding to the questionable (non?)development of Kirito. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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This was a silly episode.
First of all players can apparently get physically tired and out-of-breath in the game. We had an idiot army getting in over their heads; could that leader have been any more stupid? How did he survive for two years? Once again Asuna becomes weak and ineffectual around Kirito. Speaking about the guy, what happened to his healing rate? As seen in episode four he can regenerate a little over four percent of his health every second but in this episode his health is static. Kirito was sure quick to agree to the fight. If he was an actual loner he could have simply told the commander that he's not forcing Asuna to do anything. But oh no, this supposedly attention-avoiding loner readily agreed to a fight with the leader of the most powerful guild in the game. That's sure to be Also, Kirito had a previously-unmentioned power which is - gasp - duel-wielding. Is that not the most amazing power ever?* It is supposed to explain why he doesn't use a shield, but there's a couple of problems. If the power was the big reason stopping him from using a shield, he could use a shield when using one sword then swap the shield out when equipping the second sword. It's not like the game forces players to use the same equipment loadout for the entire battle, yet we never see players mixing it up. Heck, Kirito still uses the same outfit that he got back in episode two. Then there's the problem of how he's been fighting for two years and only had the power for six months, so why didn't he use a shield before he got the power? But hey, maybe Asuna got it wrong and he just values speed and agility over armour rating (hence a lack of shield). But as silly as the episode was, that fight was so freaking awesome. * Sarcasm, if it wasn't obvious.
This is a good point that I hadn't thought of. Well done. |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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An effect implemented in a lot of games. The Elder Scrolls series for example.
A history full of idiotic military commanders that attack without having proper intelligence makes that plausible. Besides that whole "Liberation Army" pathos can get to your head.
Because gamers don't get competitive at all. Besides a victory would probably mean "piss off and don't bother me". The rest I either agree with or see as irrelevant. In any way the whole show is silly not just the episode. I wouldn't play an MMO like this even if it wasn't norespawnforyou. |
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danilo07
 Posts: 1580 |
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Except that those military commanders mostly got their positions by heritage not skills.In a world of SoA everything is earned through social skills and of course combat skills. |
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Plenty of people throughout history have politicked their way into military commands; the Liberation Army falling victim to that same effect isn't too surprising.
That said, they seemed to have done pretty well before they started dropping like flies(presumably when the third health bar was drained). I'd have to rest this one on institutional pride: the Army had been irrelevant for quite some time and beating a boss by themselves would've put them back on the map in grand style. The soldiers never complained, so it's probable the whole group was drunk on it. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Don't believe they have officer schools in SAO (Custer graduated West Point btw). Most of them are simply hardcore gamers and for all we know that guy was simply the guild leader's buddy. All I'm saying is that crazier things have happened in real life. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Of all things, you worry about SAO using annoying character archetypes to extremes, while what you really should worry about is that kind of people lining up to buy limited edition games. The guild master and this commander sure don't pass off as the type who would. You'd expect this commander to be busy being an instructor at a summer camp, and the guild master being a politician because he comes off as one.
His dumb actions didn't matter so much to me, simply because I was more concerned about the possibility of the existence of such a persona in this kind of game. Too hard to swallow this time, Sword Art Online. |
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誤称
Posts: 549 |
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I was not expecting a realistic portrayal of mmo guild politics in an MMO ever.
Seriously, as an officer in one of the leading guilds on SWTOR's Ebon Hawk server, I can understand what this guild leader is going through. If one of our key members was being taken away by a rival guild, I'd do whatever it took to keep him or her active in our progression raiding. Hardcore groups take this stuff seriously and Kirito is challenging their efforts. Add to this that the risks in this game are life and death.... I'm glad I'm not playing this game. (I enjoy pvp a bit too much and risking my life? No way.) Of course, if you really want the full story you do need to read the light novels. The anime is doing a fine job (and more Lisbeth PLEASE) but the novels do so much better. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15523 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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@ dtm42
If I had to guess why he uses a one handed sword, and leaves one hand free, my guess is that he wants to keep it free so that he can use items easier. Since he fights by himself he has to rely on himself for any support, better for him to be used to fighting with one weapon, then have to shift his fighting style. He needs to keep himself quick and flexible, chances are that his strange choice got attention of who gave it to him. Also they mentioned that different skill levels were for different style, maybe he just much rather put a lot of his points into his sword than something something he does not need. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18265 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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This makes a lot of sense, as when he's fighting solo - and thus has no one to cover for him while doing an equipment switch or drawing an item - the extra second or two to get rid of a shield could make a big difference. My other thought on this is that he probably does normally dual-wield when he's soloing but was trying to avoid doing it in front of others unless he absolutely had to. (That neatly explains his behavior in the middle of the fight and is consistent with his comments at the end.)
I had forgotten about that, but you do have a point here. Careless oversight?
As others have pointed out, Kirito may be a loner but he still has a gamer's pride (which, as Polycell elaborated on, also probably explains Corvatz's stupid decision involving the Liberation Army, as both history and anime have well-established that being in life-or-death situations doesn't necessarily take pride out of the equation). Doubtless Heathcliff knew that, and unlike the bodyguard-wannabe, this is a carefully calculated risk on his part. Of course, this could also partly be a matter of Kirito just wanting to play the gallant knight for his lady and give her a less stressful way to step out for a while.
Yeah, this has been bugging me, too, especially since the other recurring characters (i.e. Asuna and Klein) have clearly been shown to have substantially upgraded their equipment over time. But the cloak is a unique item (possibly the first to show up in the game, in fact?), so this could be looked at either as a "gamer's pride" issue or as Kirito having developed his signature look earlier than anyone else.
Gods, yes. I can't think of an action sequence I've seen in the past year which gave me as much of a chill as that one. In fact, I watched Crunchyroll's stream of the episode once it finally came up last night in addition to rewatching my fansub a couple of times, so I've probably seen that fight four times now - and I don't normally do that, even when I'm in the process of reviewing something. Aside from noting some interesting differences in the way CR and the fansubbers interpreted the dialogue in certain scenes, I also noticed on the rewatch that Klein's guild does, in fact, have a heavy-set guy that one would more typically associate with a hard-core gamer's build (the absence of which we've been lamenting about for quite some time), and spoiler[the brief flash of Sachi calling out to Kirito as he was waking up after the fight, which only reinforces the whole situation as Kirito stepping up to do what he could not manage back in episode 3.] That was a nice touch, too. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Regarding Heathcliff's challenge, there are some other reasons why he might've done it...
For one thing, by challenging Kirito to a duel, he only stands to come out ahead no matter how the duel turns out (so long as it is fought honorably, which I assume it will be). If Heathcliff wins, he gets Kirito to join his guild, which will increase its already stellar reputation and make it more powerful as well. If Heathcliff loses, he can be sure that Asuna is with someone that can properly look after her (if he's being a chauvinist). But more importantly, Kirito will be thrust into the spotlight: the guy who defeated the guildleader of the most powerful guild in the game. More people are going to want to interact with him after that, either in a postive or negative sense. He'll have to start interacting with people more, and that might lead to him grouping with more people, which would improve the strength of the Lead Group and thus improve the chances of clearing the game. If Heathcliff actually is focused on clearing the game (and I believe he is, considering Asuna regards him so highly), then his actions are going to be taken with that goal in mind, and I think that is his primary motivation in challenging Kirito. Oh, and I almost forgot: regarding the HP regen issue. It is *possible* that he only regens HP like that when he is outside of combat. Now, you may be thinking that he was in combat that one time because people were pounding on him, but in some games, you're only flagged as being in combat when you actually attack something. IIRC, Kirito merely stood there and let the weaklings pound on him for a while, which his auto-recovery more than covered every tick. He only made an (aborted) attack after that when the woman got snide. But... most likely it was an oversight. 
Gah, I keep remembering things after I post: Key, I thought the fight was pretty nice, but the fight between Gon and Hisoka in the arena was *very* nice, IMO. |
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