Forum - View topicINTEREST: Biglobe Poll: Best Gundam TV Series After 1989
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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The middle east crisis is based on the fact that the main "crop" of the middle east is no longer needed and is kind of gone. Rich middle east countries depend on oil today. It's not only their economic resource, but a political one to. So when it's not in demand serious crap may happened. This is even true for today. The rest of the world doesn't need to involve itself with the middle east because they now have solar energy and so the losses of their economic power and plotical power throws many Middle eastern countries into disarray. It's not even close to be being far out there. Also many other countires aren't able to buy into this new energy leading to other unstable countires now that fossil fules are kind of depleted. Again it's not unheard of today of the more power powerful countries getting a big peace of the pie and not leaving much left. I'm not sure how the middle east crisis in 00 doesn't make sense in it's toned down logic. The middle east doesn't have its main resource=crap hitting the fan. I'm sure there's more ,but I'm not quite sure how the conflicts in the first half of season 1 don't make sense, especially when they are pretty much lifted from modern day ones. As for suspending your sense of disbelief? I'm not sure how would get through any Gundam show if you find the 00 plot too out there(it really inst for a giant robot show). I mean this is a franchisee where a dude wants to throw an Astriod at Earth to make everyone better, somehow Space nobility is a thing after years and years of Democracy, Teens can build psycho Gundams that make them think Space is crazy, powerful weapons were just never used in war again because people think war is bad and never want to start war again, a weapon system is able to lock unto like 100+ units and shoot them, but not kill them, and people love and understand each other after 1 min of meeting because their brain told them. Gundam is pretty stupid. And you think 00 is ridiculous because one portion of it's conflict is about the Middle east going to shit because it's main resource is gone? |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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Yep as soon as people starting admitting to themselves that your opinion means absolutely nothing, BAZING! |
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GWOtaku
 Posts: 678 |
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Ugh. Even after all the dialogue I know we've had about this before, you have this show so completely backward it's astonishing. Season two demonstrates the exact opposite of what you are saying. It's explicit too, for the most seeing this doesn't even require anything resembling a deep analysis. Just an observation of what the characters are actually saying and doing. spoiler[ Most basically & broadly, the ideological crusade of the first season gives way to a mission to defeat a specific enemy in the second season, one that the Gundam Meisters and their supporters consider themselves responsible for...and that's where it stops. The Celestial Being of season one never comes back, nor did anyone ever feel nostalgic for its old ways, and this is no coincidence. That indicates serious and fundamental change, whether you acknowledge it or not. And we're not even touching on how the individual Meisters changed on a personal level. ]
There are some meaty issues there, but on the other hand: the coordinator issue is reality and beyond theory. Whether their creation was right are not, these people are there now, and none of them had a say in how they were born. So while Seed could have presented a more complete look at the issue, I wouldn't say it was at all off base to use this to present its own angle on racism and to explore how distrust or outright hate can be born from fear of others who are different - in very tangible ways, in a coordinator's case. Also, though the matter was given limited attention, it was suggested in Gundam Seed that coordinators were having problems sustaining their population by staying "pure" and naturals outnumbered them substantially. The idea of coordinators supplanting "normal" people entirely was never more than sensationalist rhetoric. Last edited by GWOtaku on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MattB1
Posts: 23 |
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I'm not going to offer an opinion on which Gundam series since 1989 is the best. (The original from 1979 will always be the primary standard for me, but it doesn't have to be for everyone else.)
I had heard quite a bit about how bad Seed Destiny was, but I decided to watch it all the way through and judge for myself. Destiny was actually an engrossing show. Until the halfway point. Whatever the legitimacy of this poll's methodology, I'd have to say that Seed Destiny has earned its low rank. Its run was hobbled by: - the excessive use of clip shows and flashbacks (also a problem with SEED). Flashback can be quite illuminating if handled properly as character development. Show one flashback every one or two minutes and it becomes apparent that the director or the studio is trying to save on the animation budget. I suspect that if Seed and Destiny were released with all the flashbacks and recap shows removed, each show might clock out at 24 episodes worth of footage. - the wholesale copying of SEED's final act. I won't go into detail,so I'll say only that if you've watched SEED, you've really already seen how Destiny ends. - creating an entirely new main cast only to ditch them for the main characters from SEED for no good reason except to draw in viewers. All these could be forgiven and overlooked were it not for Destiny's cardinal sin: making Shinn Asuka the antagonist. From the beginning, the show clearly intended to chronicle his dilemmas and motivations. Then Kira became the hero, turning Shinn into an afterthought. Even if Kira were a well developed protagonist in Destiny (which he wasn't), Shinn deserved much better than this. Fukuda and Murosawa clearly haven't any clue as to how to produce a Gundam series, and Destiny is a stain on the franchise. If you like Destiny, then that's your personal taste, there's nothing wrong with that or you, and I am not interested in inflicting verbal abuse on anyone by telling them what they should and shouldn't like. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8499 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Nah, it's more like Athrun was the main character and then Kira was. |
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2417 |
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Except the 2 sides not understanding each other (I'm assuming you mean humans and aliens) is extremely not gundam like because gundam is about those 2 sides and their fight and a commentary how bad war was and how awful it is that all these people are dying. Aliens coming to the earth and fighting humans is not a gundam thing. It also was more of a 'if we don't merge with them they are going to wipe out our race.' Even if it could fit into that theme, there was absolutely no effort spent to make you sympathetic to all the aliens they destroyed (the aliens didn't even care). Gundam is absolutely not about one of those 2 sides slaughtering each other and no one caring about the second side. Even the groups portrayed as generally bad like Zeon in First and the Titans in Z try to get some sympathy directed at least at certain parts of that group. And I'm pretty sure that second part was Ribbons... he pretty much directly stated he merely hijacked the original plan and put himself at the top. Which therefore means his real plan was that he took over so he would be the one to handle the aliens (as that was the purpose of the plan he took over). And dude with a complex wanting control of everything to destroy the incoming alien invasion is again not gundam. |
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Rahxephon91
Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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It's like trying to argue with someone who dosen't understand what themes and tropes are. It's like if I told you Evangelion and Giant Robo are similar because both pro-tags have father issues you would reject that because Daisuku's dad is dead and Gendo is not. That doesn't freaking matter. It's a similar theme/trope present in both. Of course Ribbion's is a bit different, but the fact is he follow's a trend of a villain thinking he is right and should lead mankind. It dosen't really matter how he went about it. He's similar to Char and the like because of that. And that type of villain is not unheard of in Gundam. Now just because that terrible 00 movie decided to use aliens doesn't change the fact that the theme of mankind or whatever being unable to communicate with each other and thats why conflict starts is not a un Gundam thing. Em excuse me, they are called NEWTYPES. Just because the 00 movie was stupid and explored a usual Gundam theme in an absence way, dosen't change the fact that miscommunication in the human condition is a recurring theme in the Gundam series. I strongly dislike the 00 movie and S2 of 00 mostly because it is far more Gundam. |
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2417 |
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Mankind not being able to communicate with each other is certainly gundam, but in 00 that is just the setting, it isn't part of the plot. The "communication" with the aliens isn't regular gundam either... its more like assimilation than communication. Also, the theme of we are all people and no one should have to give up their life doesn't work with humans fighting non-human drones. Thats like saying I put poison on an ant hill because I didn't want to communicate with them. Getting the alien drones to fuse with you instead of killing everyone isn't exactly communication. And yeah Ribbon's personality does fit Gundam, but the fact that his plan centers around the arrival of the aliens does not.
You clearly didn't get my original statement. Yeah 00 does have basic things present in gundam. It isn't "regular gundam" because those things stay on the sideline in favor of some extremely un-gundam twist. By your logic since I can mention a couple of things in 00 that fit with evangelion and its clones, I can call 00 "regular evangelion clone series'. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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The Gundam fanboys are out in hoards.
Let's flavor this thread up a bit! GW yaoi fangirl reporting for duty! Even 12+ years later, I'm still a big 3x4x3 fangirl (my first yaoi couple). A close second would be 2x5x2. I'm not much for 1x2x1 as a majority of the fangirls were (in fact, I quite like 1xR and Relena never really bothered me when I saw the series), but that doesn't mean I wasn't amused by some of the Relena-bashing that was rampant within the fandom back in the days. I sometimes like to go through and find remnants from the days of yore in the GW fandom corners of the interwebs. Like this gem: http://www.heerosferret.com/toast.html - which proves why Heero is not toast and give you the opportunity to torture Relena in many different ways. The men in the white jackets don't appreciate me looking at such sites anymore. I doubt I'd like the series much if I tried to watch it again (except for maybe the Quatre and Duo parts). It was the fandom I fell in love with. No other Gundam series has been able to grab my interest like that one (and I've tried SEED and 00). I imagine most have better story lines/plots, but I doubt I'll find one that enamored me as much as what Wing did. I'd still like to see Turn A Gundam (that one intrigues me) released in the states for a reasonable price, but I doubt I'll see that happen. G-Boys genderbent - I dig it. Definitely. |
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Rahxephon91
Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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The only problem with your little parody is that the two shows aren't treading anywhere close to the same terrioitory. Evangelion is a growing up story. Gundam is a war story. They are't similiar in themes, atmosphere, scope, or well anything.
If your main point is "aliens" then that really misses the point of what I'm saying. It doesn't matter that what they used was aliens or whatever. Sure that makes it a bit different(superficially), but doesn't change the fact that they are using aliens to explore the same things every Gundam show has basically explored. It just means they did it in a very dumb way. i don't care, I don't like the movie because it's extrmley poorly written and poorly directed. Gundam's doing poses while spamming lasers is not very exciting. And they sure as hell don't stay on the sidelines in S2. S2 is filled with special people doing special psychic out of body shit and talking of feelings and humanity going places. Thats like the most Gundam thing ever, but I guess you disagree because innovators aren't newtypes are something so it's totally not Gundam. Just the setting? It's like the main point behind the ELS invasion in the movie. I'm not what the heck you are talking about? Did you not get that the ELS were assimilating people because they did'nt know how to communicate? That was the point. The inability of things(beyond even humans) to communicate leads to conflict and in this case leading the ELS to do what they did and that in order to find peace we need to find a way to open communications. THEY MADE A FLOWER AFTER THEY WERE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE. Like the entire thing is a (stupid) metaphor for life. If people from all over the world would just try to communicate war would vanish. Thats like pretty Gundam. For like the last time, it doesn't matter that aliens were used to tell the story. The theme and point is 100% Gundam. Eh whatever I'm done here. I don't even like this movie. |
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Saffire
 Posts: 1256 Location: Iowa, USA |
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1. Notation: why 3x4x3 instead of just 3x4? 2. Who the heck ships Duo/Wufei? 
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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Except for the fact that the anime doesnt show that, Celestial Being says what they did was wrong but the anime blatantly makes it clear that it was the right thing to do. Same thing with the whole spoiler[force humans to evolve into a new species.] If you want to show Celestial Being as wrong in the first season than have them face actual consenquences for their actions. Yes, they allow spoiler[Ribbons Almark to come to power ] but everything works out at the end and nothing personally bad happens to anyone from Celestial Being. The ending of that timeline is spoiler[Earth entering a utopia were war is a thing of the past.] That tells me that the staff sees Celestial Being as being right to wage idealogical war. Here's an example, Katie (who is by far the best character in that show) talks about how Celestial Being is a threat, and how she will stop them if they dont disband, and then the Trailblazer movie comes out, and spoiler[ CB are considered the saviors of the planet.] Yes the CB movie was supposed to be a joke (one that is frankly hypocritical), but at the same time it shows the way people see Celestial Being.
Athrun was clearly the main character of the first 8 episodes since a lot of those episodes are about Athrun dealing with the fallout of leaving Zaft and his father's legacy, but he starts to lose importance around episode 20, and doesnt regain it until about episode 36 and by episode 42 Kira was now the main character. So yeah one of the major problems with Gundam Seed Destiny was that there was 3 main characters in a series that takes place in a very short time frame. Last edited by Charred Knight on Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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luffypirate
 Posts: 3187 |
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Five pages of heated Gundam rage...all started by a Biglobe poll. Hahaha only on ANN will you find this silliness. Some of these posts are so darn angry! Come on now guys, you're better than this.
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Crisha
Moderator
Posts: 4290 |
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Two different reasons: (1) Because order tends to determine who is the 'giver' and who is the 'receiver' in lemon fanfics (and I'm all for equal opportunity). But also because, (2) back in the day, 3x4 tended to implicate that Trowa was the dominant 'seme' and Quatre was the wimpy 'uke' in terms of characterization (to the point where particular characteristics were exaggerated in each character like most seme/uke bastardizations go... i.e. Quatre being referred to as "little one" or "angel" by Trowa in fanfictions; Quatre would be turned into a peace-loving pacifist who would often be meek or submissive; Quatre would always need to be saved by Trowa... or when he wasn't any of these things, then he was a psychopathic nutcase). Just because he was empathetic during the series and wore pink and purple, that doesn't suddenly makes him the wimpy man-baby who needed to be coddled, protected, and cared for. Quatre was my favorite character, and such characterizations bothered me. He was a leader. He willingly went to war and fought for his beliefs. And he was strong enough to express his feelings and feel sorrow for others and still stand up for what he believed in. So all of the uke-fication of him pissed me off. Over time, I just tended to equate 3x4x3 as having more balanced characterization... probably because people who weren't as specific with assigning out roles during sex were less likely to seme-fy or uke-fy their character.
The more sane fangirls. Trowa/Quatre was my only OTP in the series - everyone else I'm more open-minded on. Heero/Relena, Heero/Duo, Duo/Hilde, Duo/Wufei, Heero/Duo/Wufei, Wufei/Sally... I like 'em all. I just tend to prefer Duo/Wufei over the rest - I like the way they're written together.
It's funny, I hated Wufei in the series, but I ended up liking him through fanfiction. Maybe that's also character bastardization by making him less annoying, but I feel it's more flattering than what's been done to Quatre. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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I like all the guys I am arguing with in this thread, just because I dont agree with them all the time doesn't mean I dont see their point or respect their opinion. The 15 page thread with the review of the Gundam 00 movie has a lot of anger though. |
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