Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
|
Once again I will be motoring through these.
Group C-13 Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Cross Game Due to certain people who couldn't keep their big mouths shut, I knew about what happened in the first episode of Cross Game before watching it. Maybe if I hadn't the episode might have grabbed me better, but whatever the case, I was decidedly not bawling my eyes out. Le'Chevalier d'Eon has a great setting and an intriguing mystery. That's enough for me. Voting For: Le'Chevalier d'Eon Group C-14 Haibane Renmei vs. Kurau: Phantom Memory The scene where Kurau opens her eyes to see Christmas is still one of the most memorable scenes in Anime for me. Do you know that until this tournament I had forgotten about the entire scene where Rakka's wings sprout? It's not the only reason for my vote, but I thought it was worth noting. Voting For: Kurau: Phantom Memory Group D-13 Angel Beats! vs. Death Note Light Yagami is one of the most interesting characters ever in Anime, and he shines in this episode which itself is nothing short of amazing. The first episode of Angel Beats!, not terribly impressive by itself anyway, pales in comparison. Voting For: Death Note Group D-14 Mawaru Penguindrum vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit A lot happens plot-wise in the first episode of Mawaru Penguindrum, and the infamous Surivival sequence is definitely a huge hook (that unfortunately gets overused in later episodes. Pity). Moribito's first episode is very strong, and the series is better than Mawaru Penguindrum overall, but it doesn't have that instant hook. Voting For: Mawaru Penguindrum |
||||
|
||||
GDFan
 Posts: 254 Location: North of Boston |
|
|||
There were some of complaints early on about people letting their feelings for a whole series affecting their judgement of the first episode. I was under the impression that no matter how well received a series is overall, we are voting based solely on the first episode. Which is why I don't understand things like this:
After viewing only the first episode, I don't see how anyone could get this out of it. This justification is based on the series in its intirety, not the first episode. Or are we expected to view every episode of each series, and then judge the first one? |
||||
|
||||
Saffire
 Posts: 1256 Location: Iowa, USA |
|
|||
|
Group C-13
Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Cross Game Vote for: Cross Game I really like both of these episodes. Both have serious impact (though in different ways) and bring a lot to the table. But Cross Game executes its emotional appeal brilliantly, leaving d'Eon unable to quite catch up. Group C-14 Haibane Renmei vs. Kurau: Phantom Memory Vote for: Haibane Renmei Kurau was pretty good, but I feel Haibane Renmei has the edge here. Haibane is lovely and charming, but hints at a much darker edge to the idyllic land where Rakka suddenly finds herself. Group D-13 Angel Beats! vs. Death Note Vote for: Death Note Angel Beats! has great technical merits, but...that's all, really. I still think the setup fails to be interesting. Death Note opens with a powerful setup and interesting cast that creates a far more successful first episode. Group D-14 Mawaru Penguindrum vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Vote for: Mawaru Penguindrum Moribito is pretty and opens strongly, but Mawaru Penguindrum is seriously fascinating in ways that few shows ever are. MP radiates style without lacking substance, a combo that makes for a very impressive first episode. [Edit: Just fixing bolding.] Last edited by Saffire on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
|
|||
|
Three competitors in this round do what I consider some of the best jobs of dumping a ton of info to set up the story, while still remaining entertaining, and exciting.
Group C-13 Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Cross Game Le'Chevalier d'Eon is one of the three episodes I mentioned. This setup could have been terrible if not executed with as much effort as was put in. Cross Game is very different, it really is tough to compare the two, but a vote must be made. Voting For: Le'Chevalier d'Eon Group C-14 Haibane Renmei vs. Kurau: Phantom Memory Kurau is another of the three. The three time spans covered in the opening episode each providing character details and motivations at a pace that never seemed rushed, but packs a lot of action. Like Haibane Renmei, not all is revealed at the start, but I feel Kurau relays more in a better fashion. Voting For: Kurau: Phantom Memory Group D-13 Angel Beats! vs. Death Note Surprised Angel Beats made it it this far, and rewatching the first episode on Blu Ray, I can kind of see why. This series looks and sounds great, and is a solid mixture of action and comedy. Light's decent into hell is breathtaking, but I think I am leaning toward Angel Beats. Voting For: Angel Beats Group D-14 Mawaru Penguindrum vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Moribito rounds out the third of my great setups that were handled correctly. Each time I see Balsa save the prince at the bridge, I am just floored. As more of the plot is revealed, the entertainment value keeps increasing. Voting For: Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit |
||||
|
||||
One-Eye
 Posts: 2267 |
|
|||
[img]  [/img]
Yum, those ears make me want to run down to dunkin donuts! Perhaps what follows in later episodes made you comfortable with the designs in the first episode, or it didn't have any effect to begin with which is fine. Like I said, for myself it didn't add to the episode. It doesn't mean the episode is bad or the show is bad. It just wasn't a strength to me. |
||||
|
||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
|
Round 3 Groups C&D are now closed.
With 16 votes in, the depressing (for me) results: C-13: Le Chevalier d'Eon edges Cross Game, 9-7. C-14: Haibane Renmei thumps Kurau Phantom Memory, 12-4. D-13: Death Note holds off Angel Beats!, 10-6. D-14: Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit eliminates Mawaru Penguindrum, 13-3. The losers in C-14 and D-14 never had a significant chance, while Death Note's victory margin is proportionately much smaller than it was initially looking like it was going to be; AB! was catching up but just ran out of time. C-13 was running neck-and-neck the whole time, with the final vote deciding if it would be a tie or a win for Le Chevalier. I am, of course, very, very disappointed in that result, as I have watched the first episodes of both series several times and, while both are great, there was never a question in my mind which one was better. But whatever. Next Round is all of the Group Finals. Should be up soon. |
||||
|
||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
|
Round 4: Group Finals is now closed.
Results can be found here. And so we're up to the Group Finals. Even with that extra-long first round, it feels like we're blowing through this tournament fast. Looks like we have a healthy set of interesting matches, too. Group B's been very, very tight so far and beating everyone's predictions, so there's no telling how that will go. Group A could be dicey, too, and I don't think Group C's going to be anywhere near as automatic as some are predicting; yes, Haibane Renmei has been a big winner each round so far, but so was Cross Game until it ran into the Le Chevalier buzzsaw, and it'll be by far the toughest competition that HR has faced so far. Whether or not Death Note can take a bit out of Moribito's big voting margins (with only six votes against so far, it'd beat even HR as #1 in the Power Rankings if I had gotten around to making them) is also an interesting question. Group A Final Eden of the East vs. Time of Eve Group B Final Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo vs. Hanasaku Iroha Group C Final Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Haibane Renmei Group D Final Death Note vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Last edited by Key on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
|
Group A Final
Eden of the East vs. Time of Eve Time of Eve has been heavily praised for the innovative, intriguing concept it showed, but it's now running against a series that can both match it on that front and beat it decisively on technical merits, and none of its previous opponents have been able to claim both. Eden of the East establishes a great lead character, a potentially interesting couple, and all sorts of intriguing questions while looking great and also delivering both a cool opener and conceptually brilliant closer. That's enough to give it the edge here. Group B Final Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo vs. Hanasaku Iroha Gankutsuou's first episode is solid and compelling but not Final Four material. Hanasaku Iroha's is; I thought all along that it was the best first episode in this group by a wide margin, but I never actually thought that it would have a chance to get this far, hence my lack of support for it in the minigame. While Gankutsuo is more visually inventive, HI's clean, polished look is also mightily impressive, it introduces and establishes a character at least as intriguing as The Count, and has perfect pacing and writing. And gee, I wonder how dtm42 will vote this one. Hmmm. . . Group C Final Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Haibane Renmei I decided at the beginning of last round that whoever won C-13 would get my vote here and I'm sticking to that despite the final outcome. Some have said that Haibane Renmei is going to run away with this, but I wonder. In tone it's a very similar series to Cross Game and it's not much better on the artistry or technical merits, which seemed to sap at least a vote or two from CG last round. It's got a lot of heartwarming setting and character establishment, but so did CG. It's got one especially powerful scene, but I got more actual emotional impact out of CG. And Le Chevalier beat CG. Frankly, looking at this match-up, Le Chevalier may actually be the tougher out because it's got entirely different strengths. It's dramatic, it does a fabulous job of establishing its setting, it has one hell of a hook at its end, and it looks great doing so. That's enough to get my vote to Le Chevalier d'Eon, especially since I haven't been as overwhelmed by the first ep of HR as many others apparently have been. So for those who vote for Haibane this round and voted for Le Chevalier last round, I'll expect an answer to this question: what's the difference in the match-ups? What does HR deliver that's enough to give it the win against Le Chevalier but not Cross Game? Group D Final Death Note vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Death Note has one of the strongest - if not the strongest - hook of any series in this tournament, but beyond that its main strengths are that it looks good and effectively establishes an atmosphere. Moribito looks better, is animated better, has an even better opener, and has a central character who's just as strong without being outlandish. It does a phenomenal job of world-building for a first-episode-only effort, and while its hook isn't quite as strong, it's still powerfully compelling. It ultimately just impresses in more facets than what DN does. |
||||
|
||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
Hey, if you know my picks so well, why don't you just vote for me? I bet you could get four-out-of-four no problem. |
||||
|
||||
Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
|
|||
|
Group A Final
Eden of the East vs. Time of Eve I have seen Time of Eve, but I didn't impress me as much as some people here. It's a decent show and the execution is good, but there is nothing outstanding about it. There is nothing in the first episode that can set it apart from other shows. Eden of the East, on the other hand, has a charismatic protagonist. The episode is packed with memorable scenes and the characters are likeable. Voting for: Eden of the East Group B Final Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo vs. Hanasaku Iroha The first episode of Gankutsuou is visually stunning and as a result it is memorable. The plot is good, which should be no surprise taking into consideration that it is based on one of the best novels written by Duma. However, the change of protagonist form Edmunda Dantes, the Count of Monte Cristo, to Albert de Morcerf is interesting and gives this series a touch of novelty. Enough to make the audience curious how it will develop. Voting for: Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo Group C Final Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Haibane Renmei Haibane Renmei shows great promise in the first episode. For me the exceptional atmosphere is something I can’t quite put my finger on. But I will try. What is that set it apart from similar shows like CG? There are some intriguing ideas utilized in Haibane Renmei. The idea of dreams that hints that the characters committed suicide and delicately foreshadows that, despite the warm beginning, it will get darker. The winged haibane and the idea of being born from a cocoon. Not only does HR have the heart-warming setting and likeable characters, but also a more intriguing and attracting concept. Any series that takes place in an alternative world is a nice break form shows that use a school. Moreover, the world-building in HR is very subtle and natural. It doesn't suffer from an info-dump like many shows of this kind. Besides, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Voting for: Haibane Renmei Group D Final Death Note vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit It is an easy choice. Light's inflated ego does not impress me as much as Balsa. Voting for: Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit |
||||
|
||||
|
Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
|
|||
|
Group A Final
Eden of the East vs. Time of Eve I have to admit to being somewhat mystified why the first episode of Eden of the East is so highly esteemed. Don’t get me wrong – I think it’s a reasonably good episode with its whimsical characters and hints of mystery, but I didn’t find it compelling the first time and still can’t see what the fuss is after re-watching it a couple more times for this tournament. Here in Oz our equivalent of the BBC, the ABC, is now streaming episodes so I’ve just recently watched episodes 2 & 3. To use a TV tropism, it grows a beard – it gets so much better it isn’t funny. Even now I can see that the first episode has many hints of what’s to come. So, I wonder if the significance of that first episode grows once the viewer knows what happens later. Sometimes things really are better second time around – when you know what’s really happening. In a way, it’s a twist on the idea of judging a first episode on the rest of the series. Another theory I have is that its local setting appeals to American viewers. There’s nothing wrong with that. If it were set in Australia I’d probably like it more. I’m not American, however, so the White House has no more significance for me than the Japanese Diet. I find the questions posed by Time of Eve far more engaging and the execution superior. On that latter score, I don’t think it gets enough credit for how visually striking it is. (Whereas I think that the best first episode in the other groups made it to the their respective group final, I just want to say that Serial Experiments Lain would have been my pick for this group.) Group B Final Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo vs. Hanasaku Iroha Easy one. Gankutsuou shouldn’t have made it this far. And I was the one who got it over the line! Hanasaku Iroha, however, deserves to be here. Ohana is a great character – she has more facets to her than does the Count – while visually Hanasaku Iroha surpasses Gankutsuou in the pleasure it gives me, even if it can’t match its innovation. Both have compelling plots but Gankutsuou’s is slightly less so because the viewer is comparatively distanced from the characters. Group C Final Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Haibane Renmei Neither Cross Game nor Chevalier d’Eon has an angel who smokes. Neither has someone falling out of the sky. Neither takes the time to linger on the pattern of light on the ceiling. Neither has hair that goes SPRONG! when its owner tries to brush it. Neither has characters with beautiful ash coloured wings. Neither has a giant egg that goes GLOOP! Neither has Haibane Renmei’s amazing mixture of melancholy and wonder. Neither has anything to match Yoshitoshi Abe’s inimitable style. Haibane Renmei’s first episode is utterly beguiling. It has a charm that no other entrant in the competition comes close to matching. Only one or two have other qualities that can compensate. Group D Final Death Note vs. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit To me a successful entrant in this tournament must not only provide a good hook for the series but it should also reward multiple viewings on it own merits. Death Note fails on this latter measure. While I found it gripping first time around I do not enjoy re-watching it. It’s a bit like seeing someone vomit. When it happens you can’t help watching it in all its sordid glory. Afterwards it’s best left to someone else to clean up. It’s smelly and liable to make you want to throw up as well. I do not enjoy re-watching Death Note. Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit not only sets up a great hook for the rest of the series (though admittedly not quite as powerfully as Death Note first time around) I still get heaps of enjoyment in re-watching it. It appeals to the better side of our nature while Death Note wanders in danker parts. |
||||
|
||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
Over the past year no one in forums has been more ardent in expressing their disdain for Hanasaku Iroha in general - and Ohana in particular - than you have been, so I think it's a fair jab. Or are you going to surprise me and say that your dislike for both didn't start until the much-maligned-by-you episode 3? Barring that, I can only see you voting for HI if you somehow despise Gankutsuou even more, and given that you rate that series as Excellent, I doubt that.
Um, huh? For someone who hasn't seen the rest of the series, what, based on the content of the first episode alone, foreshadows that? I might have missed something, granted, but I did not get anything of the sort from that first episode. And since people got on my case last round for trying to apply an "in retrospect" argument to CG, I won't consider that an acceptable angle here. And to rebut errinundra: HR doesn't foster high-level intrigue. It doesn't establish a powerful aura of dread. It doesn't have intense action. It doesn't do a creative interpretation of actual history (d'Eon de Beaumont was a real French spy during the era of Louis XV who was noted as one of the finest swordsmen of his day and became notorious for both disguising himself as a woman and later claiming that he was actually a woman). It doesn't have a lavish rendition of the palace of Versailles. It doesn't use biblical Psalms to dramatic effect in a powerful climax. And it makes itself pretty clear on the direction that the series is going. IOW, Le Chevalier has all of the little touches that HR is going to be claimed to have, just in different forms. The only clear difference I can see here is whether you prefer something more dramatic or something more heartfelt, and this tournament has shown consistently that being strongly heartfelt isn't enough. |
||||
|
||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||
Thank goodness too. Haibane knows to be rather understated instead of the stupid cheesiness like the psalms. |
||||
|
||||
|
Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
|
|||
As far as I remember, throughout the whole show, it is never clearly stated that haibane are people who committed suicide, but their dreams - the dream about falling down from the sky, etc. - imply it. Besides, the world seems to be a sort of afterlife - they have halos and wings like angels. Their conversations that they cannot return to their previous world - Raka says something like that to Rekki in the first episode. There are more clues in the subsequent episodes, but it is implied from the beginning of the series. It's an interpretation confirmed by the creators. |
||||
|
||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
You do realise that I was being entirely serious? No? Well now you know. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group