Forum - View topicNewtypes = Nazis? That, and I just finished Gundam X.
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11433 Location: Frisco, TX |
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So I finished watching Gundam X yesterday, and it just occurred to me that the idea of the Newtypes being led to war reminded me a little of Hitler and the Nazis.
spoiler[ The concept of a population (Newtypes and Spacenoids) thinking they're better at every aspect of life over the "inferior" one (Oldtypes and, I guess, Earthnoids?).] And while I haven't seen every Gundam series yet, is it just me or is this maybe the third or fourth time I've seen this kind of backstory? Not that it always has to be Newtypes versus whoever, but: spoiler[ First Gundam had Zeon vs. the Federation, Wing had OZ vs. Earth Sphere Alliance (or if you want to thrown in White Fang later), SEED had ZAFT vs. Earth Alliance (and I've only seen maybe half the series, so I'm not sure what happened in whole), and of course, X had Newtypes vs. Oldtypes.] Now I'm not a "huge" Gundam fan, or at least huge enough to know a lot of things by careful analysis and whatnot, but I do like to watch an occassional series for the militaristic, high-tech warfare, with a little bit of politics or philosophy thrown in between. It's just that for some reason, this recurring theme of "superior vs. inferior" never really struck me until now, and I just wanted to know if: 1. I'm reading too much into that whole Nazi allusion. 2. I'm somewhat right about the recurring theme. By the way, Gundam X was a Very Good series. I hope it will get licensed someday. It was reminiscent in certain aspects to a lot of other Gundam series, but still enjoyable to watch. The art and animation seemed generic to any other mid 90s Gundam title, but the music was also kind of nice (I have the eye catch music from the commercial breaks stuck in my head). The seiyuu cast was a pleasant surprise as well. I'm so used to hearing Wataru Takagi do comedy roles, but he played Garrod pretty well. And while Nozomu Sasaki and Toshiyuki Morikawa did fairly well for the Frost bothers, their characters really annoyed the heck out of me after I found out what they were fighting for. From that point on, they were just despicable people with nothing but angst that even makes Shinji seem like a saint. I also feel those 39 episodes were a decent length for the whole series. I think they could've touched on the Newtype idea a little more, but that little explanation D.O.M.E gave in the last episode was pretty good too. Overall, it's a series I feel is underated. But since it's one of the few Gundam titles not in the U.S, that's probably why. |
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Guilhem
 Posts: 181 |
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Coincidence: I finished this series the last week, and I really enjoyed it. Probably one of the best, if not THE best, Gundam AU to me atm (but I still have to check Turn A...), and precisely because of all the reminiscence from the original Gundam UC
Actually, I think X is more than an AU but could be considered as a an alternate Gundam UC future where the OYW ended in a considerably worse way than in the original series. But maybe it's just me... Therefore, it makes sense to find again all this pseudo-'nazi' stuff which obviously inspired a lot of the original. Also, something I noticed, and once again maybe it's just me, but it seems that the overall AU more or less remain faithful to the original in presenting the same basic concepts in a different way and/or setting. Like some sort of trademark if you wish (not sure if trademark is really the appropriate word, english is not my native language, 'hope you get the point though...) Overally, I wouldn't say that Newtypes are nazis strictly speaking however: they're just the 'pretext' for the local tyran to take people under his control through an appropriate propaganda in order to achieve some goals (usually conquest and power because we all know that leaders as a whole usually are big-headed people...) |
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Nani?
 Posts: 632 |
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Am not familar with the Gundum series but I know a bit about the term "Newtype". Maybe this will be helpful.
It should be pointed out that "Newtype" is an actual Japanese slang to refer to younger, less work dedicated, more consumer oriented people whether Anime fan or not. One book by about "Newtypes" was Yasuo Tanaka's Almost Crystal . The protaganist is collage student in her early twenties, whose last line in the book and highest ambiton is, "I hope when I'm in my thirties, I'm the kind of woman who looks good in a Chanel suit." So the use of the term "Newtype" is has very evident cultural implications to the Japanese in a way Browncoat in Firefly has cultural implicatations to someone who knows American history. All the Best, Nani? |
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one3rd
 Posts: 1818 Location: アメリカ |
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To me it seemed that the war was another war between the earth and the space colonies and that both sides were using the Newtypes to advance their own ideology. The space colonies' government just kind of claimed that they were all "Newtypes" even though they weren't which is probably why you equated the spacenoids with the Newtypes.
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11433 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Wow, I didn't even know they used the word on that kind of basis. I assummed it was always used in the context of either a Gundam reference or (if they even care) for the magazine here in the U.S. Thanks for that little piece of knowledge. I guess that makes me a Newtype  .
So were Newtypes a separate faction from the spacenoids? I thought they were all in that Space Rebellion thing together. From a technical aspect, I believe spacenoids are just people born and raised in space, where as Newtypes are supposed to be "evolved" human beings; a combination of spacenoid plus advanced physical and mental capabilities. And because of that belief throughout both the Colonies and on earth, each side wanted to utilize that "power" for whatever purposes they had, which you stated. However, the way each side goes about things is what made me think of the Nazi reference. spoiler[ The Colonies (from what I remember seeing) wanted to eradicate every Earthling/Oldtype and create a new age where Newtypes and spacenoids would rule both outer space and the earth.] That reminded me of the genocide the Nazis attempted to carry out during WWII. As for the New Federation, I'm guessing Bloodman's purpose was pretty much the same as the Colonies', but with that whole "take advantage of Newtype abilities for their ideology" thing you mentioned. |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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The slang "Newtype" popularized by Tanaka's novel had no bearing on the view of the Gundam universe's Newtypes as the slang was in fact derived FROM Gundam's Newtypes.
Remember, Tanaka - 1980. Mobile Suit Gundam - 1979. The concept of a Newtype, in Mobile Suit Gundam is a human being with advanced, potentially telepathic, mental abilities. There were very few documented natural Newtypes in the Gundam universe (UC), specifically Amuro Ray, Char Aznable, Lalah Sune, Kamille Bidan, Paptimus Scirocco, Haman Khan, Elpeo Puru, Glemy Toto, Quess Paraya, and (debatably) Hathaway Noa. The other "Newtypes" are genetically engineered or altered to gain their prowess. The key to understanding the story that the Newtypes are the next evolution of humanity is really the story of Char Aznable's revenge upon the Zabi clan. You see, Char is really spoiler[the son of Zeon Zum Daikum, founder of the Zeon Republic]. Char went into hiding to protect himself from spoiler[Degwin Sodo Zabi, Daikum's killer and head of the Zabi family that rules the Vichy of Zeon] and during this time learned of his Newtype abilities. He became bitter that he was controlled by normal humans, angered by their reliance on his abilities, and set out to wreak his own vengeance upon not only the Zabis who'd spoiler[killed his father] but also upon the mankind he held in contempt. As shown from late in Mobile Suit Gundam up until the end of Char's Counterattack, Char craves the company of fellow Newtypes, but wishes only to use and dispose of normal people around him. He begins to buy into his own belief of Newtype's (read: his) superiority and uses his power and influence to place Newtypes on a pedestal. You see, he's really quite mad, and a man full of bitterness and grief. Many people better than I have written much more about the complexities of the Char Aznable character, but in the short of things, the story of Newtypes is the story of Char Aznable. |
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Super Arrow
 Posts: 334 Location: Australia |
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Yay for more love for my favourite Gundam Series.
Oh, and in case you didn't know...it was cancelled. Ergo the Ending rush and short Episode count.
But apart from Scirocco & Haman most Newtypes didn't really believe themselves to be "superior" at all. In fact, pretty much all of the X Newtypes were just pawns.
The Frost Bros. are generally misunderstood: they were, in effect, fighting for the same things that the Freeden was and had the same beliefs as D.O.M.E.
...Jamil is a Newtype.
Uh...where are Sayla Mass, Mirai Yashima, Katz, Letz, Kikka, Fa Yuiry, Jerid Messa, Sarah Zabiarov, Judau Ashta, Roux Louka, Mondo Agake, Beecha Oleg, Seabook Arno & Usso Evin? Hell, I've probably missed some too.
Uh...no. Despite some of his reasonings, Char was right: the Earth Federation was a useless, corrupt institution fueled by destructive greed. Hell, it's even likely that he doesn't believe in Newtypes as "saviours" of humanity: he just wants everyone to become one so that the fighting over them will be quelled. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11433 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I know, but I thought it ended fairly well for being rushed. It would've been nice if they expanded on the whole Newtype story a little more to build up some extra drama. All in all, though, it left me in good spirits.
I see. Then it probably would've helped had the series given the colony citizens or non-military Newtypes some camera time. It's just that I base most of this assumption on how Rosso (I think that was his name, the leader of the Space Rebellion) gave his little speech to Cloud Nine, and everyone that heard him declare how he was going to conquer Earth and create a new age for Newtypes and Spacenoids had pretty much no objection. He certainly believed that Newtypes (and possibly Spacenoids) were superior to Oldtypes and Earthlings. I think the keywords for him and that idea were "new age" and "evolve." Although, since I don't speak Japanese, I'll assume the subtitlers got that part right.
Really? I specifically remember them saying they wanted to destroy the world because no one would acknowledge their existence. I believe they used the argument "Newtypes are too advanced from us and Oldtypes are too below our abilities," or something like that. Thus, they wanted to wage another war to have everyone destroy each other, so that they could mold the future in their own eyes. I don't remember exactly what the crew of the Freeden was fighting for. I think Jamil wanted to preserve the future by contacting Newtypes and finding the answer to that vision he had before he lost his abilities. And of course, everyone else was just there to support him, with the addition of Garrod and Tifa to solidfy things, I suppose. As for D.O.M.E, weren't his beliefs: spoiler[ To be dismantled and bury the concept of Newtypes along with himself? I remember him saying something about how Newtypes never really existed, and that it was all supposed to be a state of mind that people should have forgotten a long time ago when they stripped his Newtype DNA and put it into that base's computer system.]
Let me clarify. It was a question that stemmed from one3rd's comment about equating Spacenoids to Newtypes. I wanted to know if I had misinterpreted what exactly a Spacenoid was. My belief is that they are just people born in space, where as Newtypes are the Spacenoids with advanced mental abilites like high awareness, telepathy, etc. I know Jamil was a Newtype that lost most to all of his abilites after that first war. I was just wondering if there's a difference between a Newtype and Spacenoid. |
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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It seems like you're just confused because the various factions in the show tried to twist the meaning of Newtype to suit their objectives. Spacenoids are simply inhabitants of outer space, and a Newtype is any person with all those fun Newtype powers (whether or not that person is a Spacenoid is irrelevant). The revolutionary army argued that Spacenoids and Newtypes are synonymous, that anyone living in space is automatically a Newtype, and that they represented the next stage in human evolution. They did not consider Tiffa to be a Newtype, being that she came from Earth. All of that, of course, was complete BS, but I think that's the cause of your confusion. |
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Super Arrow
Posts: 334 Location: Australia |
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From what I can tell you haven't seen much of the UC: watch any of it directed by Tomino to learn more about Newtypes.
Hell, according to the Turn-A Bang X is a UC sequel.
...that part I do not remember. Much like D.O.M.E., the Frosts hated the concept of Newtypes and wanted humanity to forget about it. Especially since the Frost themselves effectively disprove the existence of Newtypes. And they never wanted to "destroy" the world: check out the Ending again, when you see the Newtype con artists. The Frosts are now cool. 
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Guilhem
Posts: 181 |
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It is worth to be mentioned that this Newtype concept is clarified into Tomino's novels (MS Gundam: Awakening, Escalation, Confrontation, give it a try if you wish to know more about Gundam, this book's worth the money...): it is not an exclusivity of space inhabitants but the next step of human evolution that space colonization has 'triggered', basically Newtypes became to emerge when Mankind began to live in space but they did'nt appear only in space
This is why some Newtypes are in fact born on Earth (such as Tiffa in X...) and why the overall argument from the rebel colonists about the superiority of spacenoids is moot, whatever series you consider, but their speech tend to confuse the spectator sometimes. These speeches are just interpretations by the characters of this Newtype concept, don't let them fool you 
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Assassin_
Posts: 154 Location: Manchester, England |
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I haven't actaully seen Gundam X, but it sounds to me like the Newtypes arent based on the Nazis, but just ment to represent a typical fascist faction.
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11433 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Thank you for the clear up, zapdash. That little speech Rosso gave about Spacenoids being Newtypes is what threw me off.
Yeah, sorry  . I've only seen the movie trilogy, 08th MS Team, 0083, and Char's Counterattack. I've also had Zeta sitting on my shelf for a while, but plan to watch it soon.
I thought that was them. It's just that they seemed so adamant on fighting to the death during that last battle. I guess being shot with the Satellite Canon and six months of recovery were enough to finally calm them down . Thanks.
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Super Arrow
Posts: 334 Location: Australia |
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Well actually Zeon of the UC (which are essentially an earlier version of the SRA) were Nazi-inspired.
Hell, Gihren is basically Hitler Mk. 2.
Well, they really did want to prove themselves...and in fact, it was the rejection of the "Newtype" ideal that caused them to stop killing basically everyone.
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one3rd
Posts: 1818 Location: アメリカ |
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Those were just the two brothers, not Newtypes in general. |
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