Forum - View topicBest First Episode Tournament: Post-Mortem
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Note: Sorry I don't know if the links to the shows were all updated, but I basically quoted somebody elses post to repeat the coded text, so don't copy mine if you want the links to work correctly.
Group B-9 Bunny Drop vs. Paranoia Agent Vote for Paranoia Agent: I've always wanted to watch Paranoia Agent being the longtime Kon fan that I am. I think breaking into the realm of TV series had to be an experience for him, so that sounds like an interesting first episode. This is compounded by the idea of these episodes basically being scripted and presented like mini-theatrical releases, and you get that urge for a sequel as if you're watching a movie, but all you have to do is watch the next episode. Bunny Drop, like I may have indicated in a previous round was slow, serious and dull for me, so I'm going with PA even though I have not seen it. Group B-10 Fullmetal Alchemist vs. Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo Vote for Fullmetal Alchemist: Last but not least (in the order that I wrote my reasoning), is probably the last stronghold of tournament contenders that I favored to make it to the finals. This opening episode is just so powerful, moving and emotional for me. I just can't see how anyone could think it doesn't deserve to win this tournament. It's not hype, it is just a freaking amazing first episode. Group B-11 Excel Saga vs. Hanasaku Iroha Vote for Hanasaku Iroha: For me Excel Saga had that issue of too much randomness and unpredictability. Maybe I'm relating most of that silliness from later episodes, but my history of watching Excel Saga is rather sporadic. I don't think that makes much of a difference than actually watching the episodes in order so that is to imply that the series could be watched and enjoyed without even watching the first episode. Hanasaku Iroha had a warm and sentimental 1st episode that sets the stage for the main character's unexpected change in her living and working situation. Group B-12 Samurai Champloo vs. Elfen Lied Vote for Samurai Champloo: Because the setup was great and it really gave you a sense that those 3 are going to be lots of fun together. No I don't want to say great together, even though they pulled that scheme off brilliantly, because we all know how cynical Mugen is and pretty resentful of his duty to help Fuu. But it's evident he is also going to warm up to her and that special kind of bond will prove interesting. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Here's the situation, folks.
Right now we have 14 votes in, and that leaves us with two ties. (Won't say which two are tied, but it shouldn't be hard to guess.) A handful of regulars and a couple of people who occasionally vote haven't chimed in yet, so I'm going to extend this round for 24 hours to see if we can break this double-tie. Otherwise we'll have an immense mess next round. Last edited by Key on Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Sounds like a good idea to me. I won't be making any such arguments, though, because even though I stated my preference on the two in question. . . honestly, I could easily see them legitimately going either way and am not at all surprised that they tied. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Cool. So I'm on the fence about Group B-9 and B-11. I'm not sure which one of those groups is tied up, but I know one of them is. Someone persuade me or Tris to change our vote on B-11 in case that one needs a tie-breaker.
@ Key, I think you are on the fence about Gankutsuou / FMA (and anyone else who is): I really think you should reconsider. You said Gakutsuou has flashy visuals but that doesn't mean they make the show better. Any anime can wow people with innovative character designs and special effects but it can also be something that distracts you from the fact it has a mediocre story and plot. I'm not saying Gankutsuou does, but what is really impressive about it besides those visuals? Not much I think. That nowhere near comes close to the drama, and the way Fullmetal Alchemist draws you in. I think the biggest part of it for me was sympathizing for those two boys when their curiosity gets the better of them (they are young boys after all) and such a horrifying and gruesome fate befalls them. I think the most moving part was when Ed had become so desperate even in the face of losing his legspoiler[ that he went so far to sever his other limb to save Al when there was really no way of knowing that would even work]. I think I'd just panic where I wouldn't even be able to do anything. It just makes you feel so strongly for those two and the path ahead of them. Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Please tell me where in the first episode of Fullmetal Alchemist that we learn that Ed sacrificed a limb for Al. I've re-watched the episode and it doesn't. Pretty much all you get in the episode is a second rate conflict between Ed and Condello. People need to ignore any knowledge and personal feelings from the rest of the series. And let's compare the stories told in these two opening episodes. In FMA, Ed and Al arrive at a town where a fake holy man has helped out its citizens thanks to a gem that the two boys believe could be the Philosopher's Stone. What Father Condello's motives are we don't know yet. What we do know is that Ed is happy to steal it from him with force. The episode climaxes with Father Condello unleashing two monsters upon Ed and Al to protect his gem. It's all pretty standard shonen fare - there is no hint of the depth and complexity of the latter parts of the series In Gankutsuou, the Count has, using the strategem of the lost watch, made himself acquainted with the young noble, Albert. He takes the young man into his confidence and presents him with an awful dilemma. Albert can save the life of one criminal but must condemn two others to death. Traumatised by the experience Albert seeks solace in the arms of Peppo only to receive another rude shock. Not only are the visuals of Gankutsuou far superior to FMA's but the plot and conflict within the opening episode are much more compelling. There is nothing in the opening episode of FMA to match the terrifying position that Albert finds himself in at the public execution. Last edited by Errinundra on Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:20 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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That people cannot seem to dissociate the first episode from the rest of the series is one of the main reasons why I'm sticking to just spectating this tournament, rather than being an active participant.
The other reason being the odd rule that you must vote in all matches. Why cannot a person abstain if he or she truly doesn't care one way or the other? Last edited by Megiddo on Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tris8
Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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But I still love this first episode, even while ignoring everything that comes after. I love the style of comedy and how we can already see the trusting and caring relationship between the two brothers. There are so many intriguing and interesting elements just in this first episode! We are introduced to alchemy, we see a flash of Ed missing two limbs and find out what has replaced them at the end of the episode. We see that Al is only a suit of armor!! No body? And what made Rose so sad that she has recently recovered from? Ed is the Fullmetal Alchemist, so there is a whole organization of alchemists like him.... There is such a great job of foreshadowing in this episode, like when Cornello brings a bird (a robin?) 'back to life'. We see it fly away, then drop dead out of everyone's notice. As for the conflict between Ed and Cornello being "second rate", I disagree. I think a great job was done building up to their clash at the end of the episode (which was a great fight). Their conflict does seem pretty straight-forward in the first episode alone, but even then there are hints at complexities when we find out that the brothers weren't sent there, they came on their own. I can understand if you don't like Cornello as a villain; as a villain he doesn't fall into any big potholes but he doesn't stand out either. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group B is now closed.
Disappointingly, no other votes came in during the extra 24 hours, so we're left with a real mess. The bloody results: B-9: Bunny Drop and Paranoia Agent tied, 7-7. B-10: Fullmetal Alchemist and Gankutsuou did also. B-11: Hanasaku Iroha defeats Excel Saga, 9-5. B-12: Samurai Champloo wiped out Elfen Lied, 11-3. I'm not terribly surprised that B-9 and B-10 came down the way it did, but B-12's results - total domination once past the initial few votes - did surprise me. More importantly, this means that we'll have our first-ever four-way next round. Anyway, next round should be up shortly. |
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Tris8
Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group C is now closed.
Results can be found here. No comments, since I’m behind schedule on this, other than to say that I’ll be very curious how certain matches turn out. Group C-9 Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Koi Kaze Group C-10 Cross Game vs. Ga-Rei Zero Group C-11 Sayonara, Zetsobou-sensei vs. Haibane Renmei Group C-1 Kurau: Phantom Memory vs. Gurren Lagann Last edited by Key on Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6584 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Group C-9
Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Koi Kaze Two great first episodes. I'm going for Koi Kaze because I own both series on DVD and I find myself re-watching its first episode on a regular basis whereas I seldom re-watch d'Eon. I really appreciate the way the writing of Koi Kaze so carefully prepares the viewer for the sting at the end. It's not simply that the revelation is so well done, but everything up to that point adds something important to the story. Group C-10 Cross Game vs. Ga-Rei Zero I'm over the shock I got from the sting at the end of Ga-Rei Zero. Cross Game has more substance so its appeal is more enduring. Group C-11 Sayonara, Zetsobou-sensei vs. Haibane Renmei Despite all the cleverness and visual appeal of Shinbo's anime, everything I've seen of his seems cold and empty. I know that's an individual response but, to me, it's apparent in the first episode of Sayonara, Zetsobou-sensei. That cannot be said for Haibane Renmei, which couldn't be more different in that regard. Its loaded with warmth and heart. Group C-12 Kurau: Phantom Memory vs. Gurren Lagann Thanks to feeling somewhat rushed Kurau: Phantom Memory promises more than it delivers. In spite of that, it does have promise. Gurren Lagann doesn't suggest anything that would make me want to watch that style of show. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Group C-9
Le Chevalier d’Eon vs. Koi Kaze This is the hardest choice in group C. Both shows have great first episodes and both reveal something that makes the viewer want to watch more. d'Eon attempts to entice the viewer to watching by creating mysterious atmosphere and intrigues while Koi Kaze relies on showing a forbidden relationship between siblings, which it does in a tactful manner that is free form cheap, pandering fanservice. Le Chevalier d’Eon Group C-10 Cross Game vs. Ga-Rei Zero This is no-brainier. Ga-Rei Zero is unimpressive despite its hook. This is just another story that tries to draw attention of the viewer by slaughtering random characters that haven't even been properly introduced, thus diminishing the shock value. Besides, it is just shocking for shocking's sake. I don't mind if the creators want to shock me but they should at least make me care for some of the characters. Cross Game is a good example of it. The hook is stronger, because enough time has been spent on making the viewer familiar with the characters. Cross Game Group C-11 Sayonara, Zetsobou-sensei vs. Haibane Renmei Haibane Renmei shows great promise in the first episode - the characters are likeable, the world is intriguing and the execution is well done. Sayonara, Zetsobou-sensei has an interesting first episode but there was nothing captivating about it. It is a good parody but it is like all the plot-driven and shallowly entertaining shows like Death Note, once you know all the gags/plot twists, there is no point in remembering it or re-watching it. Haibane Renmei Group C-1 Kurau: Phantom Memory vs. Gurren Lagann This is a very subjective vote. I have seen both and Kurau: Phantom Memory gets my vote, because at least it piqued my interest. Gurren Lagann seems to be the sort of show I have very little chance of enjoying. Kurau: Phantom Memory |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Match C-9: Koi Kaze
The toughest match for me to judge in this bracket. Both are good quality opening episodes for differing reasons. But in terms of an episode that delivers the better emotional investment, I have to go with Koi Kaze thanks to its opening focus on Koshiro's character. Match C-10: Cross Game Ga-Rei Zero has better quality visuals, but only the shocking ending of its opening episode was the most memorable aspect with it for me considering the archetypal characters introduced were rather bland and get killed off quick. Cross Game starts off strong introducing you to Kou and Aoba's characters and the connection they have to Wakaba before the shocking end to the opening episode in which all three are introduced. Match C-11: Haibane Renmei Despite Zetsubou-sensei's unique take on comedy, it's quite outclassed to the powerful drama, immerse world and likeable characters introduced within Haibane Renmei. Match C-12: Kurau: Phantom Memory Gurren Lagann has more grit and energy in its presentation, but it mostly emphasizes style in its opening episode. Meanwhile in Kurau, you get introduced to Kurau's character and the unique circumstances she gets caught up in with the Rynax, while also sporting a good-quality visual presentation. Definitely going with Kurau. |
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