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REVIEW: A Midnight Opera

Quote:

Sometimes my band sounds a lot like Throbbing Gristle, sometimes we sound a lot like Funkadelic, sometimes we sound pretty No Wave...

What the f*ck...sounds interesting to say the least.

If you think those both deserve an A+, that's your prerogative--you know what art pushes your buttons and what art doesn't.

[EDIT: And you just now said he can draw adequately. So what is it, adequate art, which would equal a C, or something else? If you give something an F, you're saying it's not only inadequate (D grade) but a complete failure.]

You're saying an A- is on the same level as an A+? I'm not. But I also wouldn't give either of those an A+. I'd give the TenTen an A across the board, but the Berserk...whoa, I don't like his drawing style at all. B at best for that spread. In my totally subjective view. If you think those both deserve an A+, that's your prerogative--you know what art pushes your buttons and what art doesn't.

But to me A doesn't mean perfect. A to me means 90% or better.

You know why they're publishing American "manga"? THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY. They don't try publishing something if they don't think the can make a profit. That's how a business works. I would call this an attempt to cash in on the popularity of manga because t's manga styled and they're trying to make money off of it.

True, but in Japan there's a MUCH larger talent pool with higher standards in such contests.

Im my opinion, when we eventually start seeing professional OEL manga (No one here is saying that it can't happen, it just hasn't happened yet.) , it will most likely be from art-college/art-major graduates who've been fans of the style from their youth and learned proper art skills over the years.

One of the reasons why that neat manga anthology, Robot, was published was to showcase amazing work by mangakas who've had so much trouble getting into the manga business.

I believe TP wants the same manga stuff happening in Japan to happen in America. What they are doing is bringing the manga industry into America. In other words, they want America to have their own manga industry, just like Japan. Pretty soon, we might be seeing more manga magazines, doujinshi, and anime here in the US. Can you imagine America having as much anime, manga, and fandom as Japan?

(I'm sure they call American comics manga in Japan, just like manga people still refer to manga as comics in America).

Treeloot wrote:

You know why they're publishing American "manga"? THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY. They don't try publishing something if they don't think the can make a profit. That's how a business works. I would call this an attempt to cash in on the popularity of manga because t's manga styled and they're trying to make money off of it.

Let me rephrase that. Of course Tokyopop wants to make money. OEL certainly will make profit, in that money coming in will almost definitely be more than money going out, simply because with the way they pay creators, most OEL mangaka can barely buy groceries (I exaggerate, but they ARE generally poorly paid). But NET profit is, quite frankly, probably tiny, no matter what some TP rep will tell you.

From TP: "...Furthermore, we've published a few manga that, quite bluntly, have failed commercially—but we continue to publish additional volumes because we believe in the creator's message, expression, and talent."
Yes, this is a bit of a marketing ploy to make you think that TP is awesome and wonderful, but it is partially true. TP plans an OEL series to be three volumes long, and extended if it's successful. Out of the 10 OEL out there (Princess Ai doesn't count because it IS drawn by a Japanese), only one, I believe, has gotten this extension (Shutterbox). The others might never be popular enough to even sell well past volume 1, but TP IS going to be continuing those series (according to contracts).
The idea is that of course OEL isn't going to popular now. For one thing, most creators are very amateurish now, having worked previously solely on non-sequential art, webcomics, or American style, but TP EXPECTS OEL creators to get better. Another obstacle, of course, is the fan perception that OEL is no good because it's not Japanese, which is totally biased and hypocritical because the manwha has the exact same scenario, yet it's still respected. (And just so you know, if you think that the "spirit of manga" comes solely from nationality, you really don't understand sequential art and the differences between manga and "western" comics at all.)

OEL mangaka Rivkah noted that "[Stu Levy of TP] told his editors that even if he doesn't quite like a series, if THEY feel passionate about a certain creator and their work, he'll back them. How often does THAT happen?" Again, I'm not saying TP is God because TP does suck in very many ways, but it's probably the only way for west-born manga lovers to create. Indie comic publishers have no quality control whatsoever, and with self-publishing you really can't learn anything. If you ever attend a portfolio review, you might see what I mean; in general, editors have a strong grasp on sequential art and "manga" art and storytelling style--possibly a stronger grasp than some OEL mangaka.

Quote:

True, but in Japan there's a MUCH larger talent pool with higher standards in such contests.

...which is what I said. The problem isn't approach, it's environment. Plus there are very few mangaka to assist. moving on...

Quote:

Im my opinion, when we eventually start seeing professional OEL manga (No one here is saying that it can't happen, it just hasn't happened yet.) , it will most likely be from art-college/art-major graduates who've been fans of the style from their youth and learned proper art skills over the years.

Oh man, I agree with you totally. But the only problem is that in the US, while you certainly can learn how to draw, it's very difficult to actually learn comics (the only school that teaches comics in the nation is SCAD, I believe), and even so, creators won't be able to grasp MANGA seqart. Like, look at Rivkah or Queenie Chan; these two artists were influenced SOLELY BY MANGA and have learned proper art skills, but their seqart is still flawed (not that I can do better) because they don't have the kind of environment to learn and self-discover that the Japanese have.

As for Midnight Opera, yes the art is bad. I've seen worse; I would probably give it a D, not an F, because F is reserved for select pathetic Indie comics. OEL has a ways to go, but that's the thing--it's not going to stay stationary, it WILL get better.

minakichan wrote:

Treeloot wrote: You know why they're publishing American "manga"? THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY. They don't try publishing something if they don't think the can make a profit. That's how a business works. I would call this an attempt to cash in on the popularity of manga because t's manga styled and they're trying to make money off of it. Let me rephrase that. Of course Tokyopop wants to make money. OEL certainly will make profit, in that money coming in will almost definitely be more than money going out, simply because with the way they pay creators, most OEL mangaka can barely buy groceries (I exaggerate, but they ARE generally poorly paid). But NET profit is, quite frankly, probably tiny, no matter what some TP rep will tell you. From TP: "...Furthermore, we've published a few manga that, quite bluntly, have failed commercially—but we continue to publish additional volumes because we believe in the creator's message, expression, and talent." Yes, this is a bit of a marketing ploy to make you think that TP is awesome and wonderful, but it is partially true. TP plans an OEL series to be three volumes long, and extended if it's successful. Out of the 10 OEL out there (Princess Ai doesn't count because it IS drawn by a Japanese), only one, I believe, has gotten this extension (Shutterbox). The others might never be popular enough to even sell well past volume 1, but TP IS going to be continuing those series (according to contracts). The idea is that of course OEL isn't going to popular now. For one thing, most creators are very amateurish now, having worked previously solely on non-sequential art, webcomics, or American style, but TP EXPECTS OEL creators to get better. Another obstacle, of course, is the fan perception that OEL is no good because it's not Japanese, which is totally biased and hypocritical because the manwha has the exact same scenario, yet it's still respected. (And just so you know, if you think that the "spirit of manga" comes solely from nationality, you really don't understand sequential art and the differences between manga and "western" comics at all.) OEL mangaka Rivkah noted that "[Stu Levy of TP] told his editors that even if he doesn't quite like a series, if THEY feel passionate about a certain creator and their work, he'll back them. How often does THAT happen?" Again, I'm not saying TP is God because TP does suck in very many ways, but it's probably the only way for west-born manga lovers to create. Indie comic publishers have no quality control whatsoever, and with self-publishing you really can't learn anything. If you ever attend a portfolio review, you might see what I mean; in general, editors have a strong grasp on sequential art and "manga" art and storytelling style--possibly a stronger grasp than some OEL mangaka. Quote: True, but in Japan there's a MUCH larger talent pool with higher standards in such contests. ...which is what I said. The problem isn't approach, it's environment. Plus there are very few mangaka to assist. moving on... Quote: Im my opinion, when we eventually start seeing professional OEL manga (No one here is saying that it can't happen, it just hasn't happened yet.) , it will most likely be from art-college/art-major graduates who've been fans of the style from their youth and learned proper art skills over the years. Oh man, I agree with you totally. But the only problem is that in the US, while you certainly can learn how to draw, it's very difficult to actually learn comics (the only school that teaches comics in the nation is SCAD, I believe), and even so, creators won't be able to grasp MANGA seqart. Like, look at Rivkah or Queenie Chan; these two artists were influenced SOLELY BY MANGA and have learned proper art skills, but their seqart is still flawed (not that I can do better) because they don't have the kind of environment to learn and self-discover that the Japanese have. As for Midnight Opera, yes the art is bad. I've seen worse; I would probably give it a D, not an F, because F is reserved for select pathetic Indie comics. OEL has a ways to go, but that's the thing--it's not going to stay stationary, it WILL get better.

Eh, I would ignore this Treetop guy. No matter what you say, he already has it in his mind that TP is out to make tons of money on OEL manga and he simply block out every other logic that comes his way.

And I'm sure there are tons of bad manga that end up getting cancle in japan. It just so happen that manga is a really huge market over there, so most US pubilsher will pick up the good ones and bring them over to the U.S. Thus we see most of the above average manga over here. Plus I see titles like Hellsing and X being way overrated.

DO YOU DARE CLIMB THE QUOTE ZIGGURAT