Forum - View topicNext-Gen DVDs and Anime: future pricing and packaging.
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Armagguedes
 Posts: 41 Location: Lisbon, Portugal |
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Hello.
I was reading through the usual tech news and apparently Toshiba shot itself in the foot by delaying the release of HD-DVD to sometime around (or a bit later?) Blu-Ray's release date. They have also announced that they haven't dropped the chance of working on a single format. Also, some other factor apparently has reinforced Blu-Ray's position. If Blu-Ray does indeed win, we'll start getting discs with 25 or 50 GiB (~5.7 and ~11.5 DVDs in each, respectively) on the market. How will this translate to releases? While current DVDs do not support HD video (too big), how many (standard: 24min) episodes do you figure will go into a BD? 12, 24 [4eps*6_12discs/2 (assuming one HD episode takes twice as much space)] for big series, or one disc for a whole 12-13 episode small series? Also, do you think these new monster discs make larger series (Monster, One Piece come to mind) affordable? For one, i would not mind buying either of those on double-layer BDs (50GiB) discs, even if in regular DVD resolution. They could stick like 10-15 episodes per disc, reducing One Piece (75eps?) to ~25BDs and Monster (78eps) to 6. Will they be insulting us and re-release whole recent series in Special Editions in BD? I really would be furious if they suddenly offered a Special Edition of GitS:Stand Alone Complex in Blu-Discs, because i'm making the effort of buying the whole series' SE DVS and won't re-buy it. On the other hand, this will become a godsend for thinpaks and such, especially if they don't "re-edit and re-master" the series, releasing a 26ep series in a mere 3 discs <8and i'm being generous), which would still leave room for a LOT of extras (GantZ i'm looking at you). There's of course the question of price: early releases are going to be expensive. Hell, new techs are always expensive, deservingly or not. However the cost of a BD might actually make an expensive series cheap, even the first releases. Of course, there is always the chance of an iTunes-like store selling DRM'ed anime, and killing/maiming the distribution of anime in physical media. For me, i don't think i can live without owning some series on a disc, stored inside a cool tinbox0r with art booklets, OSTs and covers and all that. What do you think? |
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Kimani
Posts: 43 |
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Once BR/HD players reach mass market penetration, I can see ADV and Funimation re-releasing just about every on those formats. Starting with Yu Yu hakusho, DBZ, and Fullmetal Alchemist. While ADV will start with Neon Genesis, Chrono Crusade, Gantz..
I doubt the episode counts will change that much for single volume release. Maybe the minumum will change to 5 per disk but i'm basing that on nothing. |
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Steventheeunuch
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I don't think Anime has really been given much consideration, outside of certian Sony titles and Ghibli films. Companies such as ADV and FUNimation won't be diving right in, because they need to wait for the format war to basically end, with one victor.
Given the standards for video on whicever HD format comes out, ammount of episodes per disc would really, really depend on the series. The only thing I really wouldn't want to see is simply shoving standard-def things onto high-def media, but eh. About current DVD collections though, you should have already realised that anything that is coming out on DVD now is going to get a BD/HDDVD release, because people like updating stuff. bluurgfhh |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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The market is currently experimenting with how many episodes are marketable in one package. Even though current DVDs are capable of holding between 2-3 hours, most companies will release less per release. ADV frequently will release a DVD with only 3 (or in the Gantz experiment 2) episodes per disc. Likewise the Jojo releases only have 2 episodes per volume, although the US market have not been to keen on the 2 per disc ratio. I believe there is also some experimenting with the UMD releases. On the flip side the Otogi Zoshi and Planetes releases have been done on 2 discs because of all the extras. I believe the market is willing to buy series in 4-5 episode chunks at about $7 an episode regardless of how many or few discs. There have been a few series that have been released initially as complete collections, like Zeta Gundam, Mospeada, Avenger, and Southern Cross, but I believe there sales might have been hindered by their steep box set prices. On the other hand cheap complete rereleases are good candidates for a big Blu Ray DVD release. Titles like Silent Mobius and Big O which are super inexpensive would be nice on one DVD. I believe in the end you will find just as many episodes for each release, and complete box sets will be just as common (or uncommon) as they have been before.
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Bruce Lee
 Posts: 715 Location: Seattle, Washington |
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I'm no expert, so take this with a grain of salt(or sand or however that saying goes), but I dind't think it was the lack of size that keeps Anime releases from HD. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understood, Samurai 7 (released R1 by Funi) is the only show to be produced in HD. Any other show - even with good production values - would just be essentially multiplying the lines to add up to the HD resolution. I don't have an HD setup right now (been holding out till I can figure this mess out), but I'd assume that would lower the quality of the image you're seeing. All of my friends w/HD sets tell me that actual HD content like sporting events look great, but the non-HD content actually looks worse. That could be caused by many things - Cable box, inputs, signal, source quality - the list goes on. But common sense would say that blowing up a low resolution picture into something larger just doesnt' work. Try copying a low res graphic from a website onto your PC and then blowing it up, or try playing a PC game at 640X480 resolution on a 19 or 21" monitor, or try playing NES games on your HD big screen - it's horrible. If Anime was produced with HD in mind, then it probably wouldn't be a bad thing. But don't you all remember all the articles on how expensive they were saying Samurai 7 was to produce? If production costs go up, so does the licensing cost. If licensing costs go up, so does our R1 DVD prices. It's a trickle-down effect. Now don't get me wrong - I'd love to see some beautifully animated, highly detailed Anime series on HD DVDs and watch them on my HD big screen (AIR comes to mind). But I can't see this as a good thing. Most Anime production studios aren't rich - this will only add to their production costs. One big flop, and they could go under. This also does not bode well for our local distributors - especially the non-Bandais/Geneons/Viz that don't have "motherland backing". So what do you think? Is this just raging paranoia? An anti-technology, amish-esque rant? Complaints of a cheap bastard? Your thoughts? |
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DVDaholic
Posts: 62 Location: USA |
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I really don't think it's going to mean much for the future of anime, as the sales model they have set up currently seems to work pretty well for them. They release single discs, then a fancy box set, then a plain box set. As it stands now, they could already release more episodes on one disc without screwing up the quality, so it's not going to change just because the new discs can hold more content.
You are right about the HD content though. Anime titles aren't going to look any better on the new DVD's, unless you are using upconversion equipment, or the content is truly HD content. My personal opinion is that the new DVD format(s) will have a hard time catching on. The difference between VHS and DVD was huge: - better picture quality - better audio quality - more movie extras - more convenience (no rewind, scene selection, etc.) - takes up less space However, the difference between DVD and blue-ray, for example, will not be enough to sway the average consumer. Most people won't even notice the difference in picture quality between the two unless they are side by side, or some one points it out to them. Not to mention that to really take advantage of the HD content, you need the proper TV to view it, and how many people will be willing to buy a new player and a new TV just to watch the new DVD's? Certainly not your average consumer. Many of the TV's that have been sold in the last few years are compatible with HD content, but most will not actually display it properly. They have to downconvert the signal to fit the TV. Just because a TV says HDTV on it, does not mean it can really display a true HD picture. It only means it will accept the picture from an HD source. |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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I think blue ray and HD dvd will go the way of laser disk.
Not enough reasons to buy it. Dvds will be cheaper and how many people have the equipment to run it to get the most of what it offers. And dvd still has alot of life left in it. |
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Number Six
Posts: 84 Location: Southern California |
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I think the new generation of DVD's will catch on, although they may be hurt early due to format wars. The reason? Data storage. The ability to store all those GB of data on a single disk is going to be a big lure to computer users. The video part will just come along for the ride. Also, aren't the electronic companies trying to make it so the HD/BR players will also play present-day DVD's? If so, then at least our DVD collections won't be obsolete (this time around anyhow).
One problem which may rear its ugly head is the matter of DRM. If the electronic companies cave to the demands of the studios and make the new discs onerous to use as data storage discs, there could be a consumer backlash (Circuit City's DivX, anyone?). Hard to say how the anime companies will make use of the format. Economically, certainly it makes sense for them to sell many discs with fewer episodes, rather than stuffing an entire series into one disc. That would really make the price pretty high, something that would probably turn people off, never mind that the price per episode remains the same as present gen DVD's. With licensing fees as they are, it will be interesting to see what happens. |
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DVDaholic
Posts: 62 Location: USA |
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Although in terms of data storage, there are already newer, better formats being developed, so blue-ray is already going to be obsolete in the near future. One example is the HVD discs (Holographic Versatile Disc), which hold something like 1,000GB of data, twenty times as much as a blue-ray disc. Last edited by DVDaholic on Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ro-zu
 Posts: 20 Location: Neverwhere |
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You may be correct when it comes to movies. But I don't see that they will just collapse as they can be used extensivly in Data storage instead if they don't succeed with video. Edit: Concerning the HMV disc, last I had heard those werent expected to be available in any way till 2015 at least. |
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DVDaholic
Posts: 62 Location: USA |
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Where in the world did you hear that?? The 200GB versions are already coming out in 2006, and should be ready for consumers a year or two later. |
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RezSav
 Posts: 542 |
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Now all you need is the high-end hardware that'll cost over $400 to burn data to it
 But back to the topic at hand. The format wars probably won't have much of an impact, yes we'll have 25 to over 50 gb of storage on a single disc if Blu-Rey wins but then you'll need a high-end DVD player to play it. I don't think they're (licensing companys) looking to lose money off of and alienate an already small crowd of anime lovers; so what I think they'll do, regardless of who wins or not, is just stick with normal DVD's.
Of course if you HAD to pick one I would go with HD-DVD; most companys have done extensive tests and some of them claim that HD-D will work in both modern and high-end DVD players. |
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Ro-zu
Posts: 20 Location: Neverwhere |
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Okay. Well it was in PC Magazine a little less then a year ago was the last I had read or seen anything about them. If you happen to have a link to anywhere concerning the 200GB version coming out in 2006 I would like to read about it. Sorry for using an outdated source.
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cyrax777
Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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yeah for data it migt take off. if its cheap enough. hell u can buy a blue raye data drive now but irc disks are like 20 dollers!. |
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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Blue Ray becoming the LD of our era is definately a possible outcome. The market was able to support both a VHS and LD market throughtout the 80s and most of the 90s. Unlike the quick DIVX and DVD battle or the less quick VHS and Beta battle, which offered very similar quality, Laserdiscs managed to survive for around 20 years (until DVDs) since LDs were marketed to a different consumer bracket. Blue Ray will survive, even if the percentage of people who go over to the new format is equal to LD owners of the 80s. I believe the numbers will be initially much higher, since the PS3 is a Blue Ray player. The number of people who I knew who owned Laserdisc players went up once Compact Discs were invented since most of the LD players in the mid 80s also doubled up as CD players. |
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