Forum - View topicNisemonogatari (with index).
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4630 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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It seems to be a cultural thing in Japan that girls who go through a major change will cut or change their hair (Have you seen Azumanga Daioh? Remember Chiyo's worried reaction when Tomo cut her hair?). More often it means that a girl has been dumped or turned away by a guy- which might explain Hanekawa's change, but I'm guessing the others just recognize a change in themselves and so change their hair.
I watched the summation scene a couple times and admit confusion. It seemed to me as if Yozuru was spoiler[taking Kaiki's view of fakes having a value- but it seemed Koyomi had no interest in it, just satisfied that she was fine with leaving them alone, despite the fact that she didn't seem to agree that Koyomi could love a "monster."] So yeah, further insight is welcomed. I think the weakness of this final arc was the zero understanding for Yozuru's absolute morality. What does she have against immortal creatures, even "harmless ones? It seems pretty clear that Tsukihi is harmless, others apparently don't realize her nature and she will probably never realize her own nature either and is very content living as a normal human. Oh well, in the same interview where he revealed the 11 episode length Shinbo also said that he would animate all of the monogatari series, so these story points will probably be delved into further as the characters reappear in later arcs. |
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15573 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I think short hair is hot, I really don't get what people have against girls cutting their hair. Reminds me of when I once told my best friend who my highschool crush was, and he said that she looked boyish. How can a guy think that?
It is not like Hitagi got disfigured by a truck, no she wanted a change so that she could move forward. You should see some of the awefull facial hair styles I have used the last couple of years, I think that it is a good thing for us to try different things while we stiil can when young. |
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Stark700
 Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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I'm wondering why she cut her hair though. Karen had a weird and somewhat legit reason (in her personal mind).
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3963 Location: New York state. |
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Same occurrence happens with spoiler[Laputa's Sheeta, Naruto's Sakura and FLCL's Eri Ninamori]. Such scenes in anime are meant to symbolize the coming of age of young female characters. While Hanekawa and Hitagi's cases fit into this mold, Karen's hair cutting seemed more like a subverting of the cliche that Nisemonogatari decided to poke fun of via Karen's unusual reasons for doing so. |
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Tris8
Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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In no way did I consider any of them disfigured or undateable from the change. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15573 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Tsubasa was putting herself through a great deal of stress that she could make Koyomi become her boyfriend, but after he made it clear she had the need to start something new. If I had to pick an actual reason that Karen cut her hair, it was that she wanted to start a new relationship with her brother, she thought that her brother was drifting apart from her and was and different from what he was. But she learnet that he was not too far away, he still cared about his sisters, and hey, he is good friends with her idol Suruga, who herself has short hair.
Hitagi met the man that caused a lot of grief, he promised to help her, and she actually had somewhat of a crush on him, but when he got the money he ran off. Her parents split, and she could not trust people, but she told him that she would not let what he did to her affect her anymore, that she had a good boyfriend and she could trust now, It may be this very big change that incouraged her to cut her hair. Other possibility is that Karen and Hitagi were just copying Tsubasa, I think that Hitagi still feels threatened by her, and chances are Karin thinks that she is actually his girlfriend. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24137 |
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@ Spastic Minnow - actually, in the interview that you linked, it says:
It's a little ambiguous, but I interpret that to mean that Shinbo said he would like to animate all the Monogatari novels as opposed to him saying he definitely would do so. |
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Melanchthon
 Posts: 550 Location: Northwest from Here |
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Well, some how I managed to break away from the Tourney to finish up Nise. The ending was classic. Not as good as the end of the Karen Bee arc, but still classic. But on the whole, the season was weak. They were unable to establish the same chemistry with the sister as they did before with the original five. I give it a 7.5/10, a solid B, but since Bake occupies the number two overall spot on my list, it was a disappointment. Here's to hoping that the prequel is better.
I tossed up a review over on the AniDB, if you feel like reading all 1678 words (prolix, prolix, nothing a par of scissors can't fix). But let me quote from the conclusion: In Bake, things are gained. Araragi works to restore the girls to where they want to be. In Nise, nothing is gained, only preserved. Araragi works to prevent loss. Bake ends with an increase over the starting point; Nise ends at the same point where the story started. This fundamental difference in design prevents Nise from matching Bake’s greatness. But it did itself no favors either, with its flawed chemistry and ero-incest filler. As a sequel, it is acceptable. But it could have been better. It should have been better. And here is a philosophical question: What is more valuable, the real thing, or an indistinguishable fake? I agree with Kaiki. The fake is more valuable. The real thing has the value of existence, but the fake has both the value of existence and the value of duplicating the real thing. Or to quote Kyouka-sama in the third episode of Kyouran Kazoku Nikki, "People will be happy if they think what's in the museum is the authentic one. Delusions such as pictures and money don't have value. They're all illusions." |
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killmyself
 Posts: 168 |
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I thought it was a great show; Bake being better didn't make this show less enjoyable for me I liked every episode.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24137 |
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There's no question that I burdened this show with too high expectations. The first 12 Bakemonogatari eppies are something very special to me and it was unrealistic to think that height would be hit again. If this ever gets an R1 release, I'll buy it (hopefully as a companion piece to Bake) for completist sake. And who knows? If I ever watch it again, perhaps I'll be able to appreciate it for what it is instead of for what I hoped it would be.
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Kirkdawg
Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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I think Gemini is suggesting that the producers are blending the appearances of the females to be so similar that it becomes hard to tell them apart. Why would they do such a thing? I think it is some indirect commentary most people may not notice.
I recall some of you even mentioning how you thought they were a different character....so I would imagine mission accomplished. Look at how they all have similar uniforms as well. They know the formula of how to please their otaku following, and they are telling everyone they know. |
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GeminiDS85
Posts: 391 |
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When I mentioned the cutting of the hair of Senjougahara and Karen, I was specifically referring to the narrative implications that accompanied the drastic change in hair style. As for Tsubasa, yes, I believe the classic symbolic connotation can be attached to her actions. However, as for Senjougahara and Karen, the narrative implications of their hair being cut are a result of an attempt to compete with Tsubasa for Koyomi’s affection.
Karen decides to get cut her hair short right after Koyomi has finished sexually arousing her. Karen has now confirmed that her brother is sexually attracted to her, and just like how she wore Tsukihi’s clothes to appear sexier, she cuts off her long hair in an attempt to appear like the girl her brother thinks of as the perfect woman. Senjougahara cutting her hair to match Tsubasa’s hair length is an eerie omen of what’s to come. Senjougahara is Koyomi’s girlfriend, so why is she suddenly on the offensive? She has already won, hasn’t she? As can be observed in the earlier episodes of Nisemonogatari, Senjougahara has a very peculiar way of treating and discussing Tsubasa. So how does Senjougahara cope with her jealousy of Tsubasa? Well, she goes on the offensive and gives the one-eyed boy (Araragi is a walking one-eyed phallic symbol; I can’t stress enough that his penis is crux of this epic tale) the one thing a walking phallic symbol desires most: sex. The most significant moment in both Nisemonogatari and Bakemonogatari has occurred: Koyomi has lost his virginity. Koyomi, the walking one-eyed phallic symbol, is on the coattails of his introduction into the world of sexual relations, and the changes observed in Koyomi’s disposition as a result of his sexual awakening should be abundantly clear at this point: Since the loss of his virginity, Koyomi’s sexual appetite is raging. The early episodes of Bakemonogatari feature a much milder version of Koyomi, and he even comments at length about the perversities regarding sexual thoughts pertaining to his sisters. Koyomi’s virginity is also a topic of conversation during the early episodes of Bakemonogatari, and at one point his virginity is even referred to as a disease. Now that Senjougahara has cured that disease, Koyomi should be paying more attention to her, right? Well, at least that’s what a mentally unstable girl like Senjougahara would probably be thinking, but instead Koyomi spends his post-virginity molesting his sisters. Senjougahara’s hair cut is just the next drastic measure to compete with Tsubasa. It is important to remember at this point that we are still in a countdown scenario regarding Tsubasa: “Until my master’s stress is completely gone, I won’t be going anywhere. And if that stress isn’t reduced in a year…”. What’s the only thing can relieve Tsubasa’s stress? I’m tired, so I’ll write more tomorrow. BTW, I enjoyed reading all your responses. 
Edit
That was really nice of you to write that, so thank you very much for putting a smile on my face. It is always delightful to read that someone is enjoying what I am writing about.
That wasn’t my intention, but nevertheless, it is a fantastic observation. When I first watched the scene I did have a little difficultly ascertaining the identity of the girl on the beach, but I soon figured out it was Senjougahara. I just went back and watched that scene a few more times and it does not get any easier. I think you might be on to something there. Last edited by GeminiDS85 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Updated and completed the index.
Well, I've been away a while now, haven't I. There's not all that much I want to say, except that this was a very poorly-paced and muddled show. Now don't get me wrong, it was enjoyable enough to watch. Much of the dialogue was superb, and who can forget the now-legendary episode eight? But whereas Bakemonogatari actually had witty dialogue and a clear story that actually progressed, Nisemonogatari was too wrapped up in its own wordplay and cleverness to actually do anything. I don't know how much of that was NisiOisiN and how much of it were the writers at SHAFT, but there was no real direction, no sense of plot movement. The artistic side was also a disappointment. Okay, so the show was better animated and the backgrounds were actually completed; good. The music was okay, could have done with unique ED songs but whatever. The Araragi household was interesting (I liked how Tsukihi's bed was like a nest) and the city was as unique as it ever was in Bakemonogatari. No, what made me a bit blue was how that artistic flair had been so toned down. The frequent cuts to still images were fewer, and so were the bizarre facial expressions. The mind-blowing visual images... 
...that we saw in the original series were just not found here; that makes me a touch sad. As for the fanservice, well it's obvious that it was ramped up this season. I didn't really mind the classy bits at all (in fact, I wish more Anime used classy fanservice), but I could have done without the frequent lowbrow in-your-face crotch shots. For example, how many times did we need to see Karen's camel-toe? All in all, Nisemonogatari felt like it was missing several things. Artistic flair had been replaced with a more sanitised version. The spark of creativity had been lessened. The characters lacked the impact they used to have and were almost going through the motions at various points. The writing had forgotten how to use fanservice and witty dialogue to advance the story and instead just used them for their own sakes. And finally, what the series was missing the most was restraint. It didn't know when enough was enough. Karen Bee should never have been seven episodes, Mayoi should not have been shown three times (the third occasion being almost completely useless), and the first third of Tsukihi's arc was bland filler right when the pacing needed to be motoring along to make up for lost time. There are other examples, those are just the primary ones. Did I enjoy watching Nisemonogatari? Yes. Am I going to give it a positive grade? Yes. Is that grade going to be a lot lower than the one Bakemonogatari received? Hell yes. Finally, is it fair of me to compare the two series together? Well duh. Same original creator, same animation studio, same director, same voice talents, and one is the sequel of the other. Of course it's fair. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15573 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I actually agree alot with what you dtm42. I felt a little dissapointed from it, getting too into their wordplay that they forgot to really do much, or use characters in a new way, the closest was with showing Hitagi's insecurities. Perhaps I would have liked to see Koyomi and Hitagi do boyfriend girlfroend things, like the date and her feeding him in the first season.
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