Forum - View topicWhat Anime Styles are Acceptable in the ANN Encyclopedia?
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chris keck
 Posts: 96 Location: Rhode Island, U.S. |
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Back in June I submitted to the ANN encyclopedia the new stop-action (think Wallace & Gromit or the work of Ray Harryhausen) Japanese animation movie Shisha no Sho [A Book of a Dead Person] directed by Kihachiro Kawamoto.
Here is a link to the film's website, http://www.kihachiro.com/index2.htm Yesterday I received this message that it had been rejected (with some prejudice, I might add).
So, I have to ask the question; just what anime styles are acceptable in the encyclopedia? It already contains titles that use traditional, hand-drawn animation; computer animation, both 2-D and 3-D; animation using paper cutouts and at least one example of another title using stop-motion animation. Why is this particular Japanese animation film not an anime title? chris keck |
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chris keck
Posts: 96 Location: Rhode Island, U.S. |
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ANN staff,
Please don’t ignore this; I think it’s a legitimate question. What types of Japanese animation are acceptable for inclusion in the ANN encyclopedia? ANN’s “mission statement” says that Japanese animation and anime are interchangeable.
Since you obviously had some criteria in mind when you disallowed Shisha no Sho please share it me (and the other contributors). That way I won’t waste you time in the future by submitting titles that are obviously unacceptable. Thanks, chris keck |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3791 Location: Montreal |
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From what I understood when we talked about whether to accept this, Shisha no Sho is a puppet movie. That is, cameras filming puppets being moved by puppeteers. And that's not animation. Now, if it's a stop-motion film then indeed it can be considered animation... but it still feels weird to call it anime. We can try to define anime ad vitam eternam using various labels and classifications, but in the end there's a certain element of "you know it when you see it"
We could add a condition like "it must be drawn (either by hand or by computer) to be considered anime". But in the end, it's just that stop-motion doesn't *feel* like anime to me. It just feels too different from the animation that comes from the Tezuka lineage. |
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biliano
Posts: 956 Location: Cleveland, OH |
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I never believed that puppet movies and puppet shows were considered animation in the first place, so for Shisha no Sho being rejected made a lot of sense to me. IMO, to call this Japanese puppet movie "anime" is like saying that the American TV program The Muppets Show and the various Muppets movies are "cartoons", or that the Thunderbirds TV show and movie are "cartoons", where in reality they're not. I think that the ANN Encyclopedists made the right call in rejecting this program, chris, and I don't think that they were being prejudice towards this medium. Puppet shows/movies are not considered animation under any circumstance IMO. |
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chris keck
Posts: 96 Location: Rhode Island, U.S. |
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Mr. Delorme,
With all due respect, I found your explanation to be doctrinaire. All the more so when the article you linked to supporting your "feeling" argument concludes with,
The Tokyo International Anime Fair had no problem making Shisha no Sho a special feature. http://www.taf.metro.tokyo.jp/taf2005/en/anime_news/050124_01.html Where did you get the idea that Shisha no Sho is a puppet film? All of the websites I've seen have called it stop-motion animation or doll animation. chris keck |
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chris keck
Posts: 96 Location: Rhode Island, U.S. |
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"biliano",
I agree that The Muppet Show and The Thunderbirds are not animation. (Although they were wonderful shows in their own right.) But what about Wallace and Gromit or Corpse Bride? Those are made with stop-motion animation, as is Shisha no Sho. If you're unfamiliar with the technique check out this Wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_motion Stop-motion animation is really very close in technique to the traditional, hand drawn animation which was used for most anime until recently. The first involves the sequential photography of slightly different models in give the illusion of movement. The second involves the sequential photography of slightly different drawings to give the illusion of movement. chris keck PS: No need to be humble about expressing your opinions. |
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Haru to Ashura
 Posts: 617 Location: Termina |
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My say isn't really important, but I'd just like to say that I agree with Chris here.
It's hard to confuse puppet-shows with stop-motion animation, but they are very different. Stop-motion animation is sometimes also called clay animation. For example, in the case of the Wallace and Grommit shorts, the figures are made out of clay. Since they're made of clay, they must be slightly remolded for each shot, in accordance with their movements. This can be compared to animators having to slightly change a drawing in according to movement. This, stop-motion animation is animation, and stop motion animation made in Japan by the Japanese should be considered anime. And furthermore, if the Japanese industry obviously considers this peice to be anime, then who are a bunch of American fans to argue? |
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biliano
Posts: 956 Location: Cleveland, OH |
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I guess that stop-motion animation (or claymation as it's commonly called) is sort of a toss-up in terms of it being called "anime" if the show originates in Japan. Maybe Dan and the guys might have a change of heart and possibly consider adding Shisha no Sho to the Encyclopedia once they have more time to think about it (which would contradict what I mentioned in my earlier post, but then again, it won't be the first time that's happened!
 )
(This might be a good question to ask Zac.) |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Why not put it under 'not anime but related', at least for now?
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biliano
Posts: 956 Location: Cleveland, OH |
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Because it was determined by the Encyclopedists that the series is not related to anime in any way. This is what we're debating about - should stop-motion animation series/films that originate from Japan be considered anime or anime-related? Apparently, the Encyclopedists consider Shisha no Sho a puppet film, and thus rejected it because puppet films are not considered a form of animation (and since I haven't seen Shisha no Sho, I don't know if it's true or not). |
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