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REVIEW: Elfen Lied DVD 1


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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 2:09 pm Reply with quote
Godaistudios wrote:
Perhaps the lesser offense is more shocking because it isn't so commonplace?


I would argue it is actually rather commonplace, just not reported on as much. In any case, you're probably right about being desensitized to violence. In my case, I make it a point to not allow that to happen to me. As a result, I am greatly bothered by the plethora of particularily gruesome amount of child murders recently. I do seem to be among the minority of those that are more then passively affected. (at least among co-workers and the like)
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SnowfairyX



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 438
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 3:31 pm Reply with quote
khryoleoz wrote:
If macabre, dark tragedies and disturbing studies of the decadent human condition is what inspires you, then try seeing Neon Genesis Evangelion first. Then watch Grave of the Fireflies, Gantz, Alien Nine, Berserk, and Narutaru, all of which employ and depict violence more stylishly yet purposefully to make a point about the inescapable and ever present human suffering, of which the human is the sole cause.


I read your review and thought it was very well written. I'm not entirely sure if Elfen Lied is a very good series, but I've read many reviews that are very positive. I like to read positive and negative reviews of a series so I can decide if it for me. I think your review is written well enough that it could change someone's mind about the series. If I read your review before purchasing Elfen Lied today, I still would have purchased it, but your review is still very relevant.

I liked Alien Nine and also planning to purchase Narutaru because of the positive reviews that convinced me to, so I also agree with you that these shows are good.

I'm sure there are also people out there that hate Neon Genesis Evangelion, Grave of the Fireflies, and Berserk. I also have a feeling that Gantz is not as good as a series that you seem to be implying. I have read a review on Gantz that I think is written as well as your Elfen Lied review that is just as scathingly negative. I was planning on purchasing the series before I read that very persuasive review. I currently have an unfavorable view of Gantz because of that review.

So are you an official anime reviewer? You should be one if you aren't already.
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Godaistudios



Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2075
Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment)
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:41 pm Reply with quote
SnowfairyX wrote:

So are you an official anime reviewer? You should be one if you aren't already.


If khryoleoz didn't come off as being so pretentious, I might be inclined to agree. I do take issue with the last paragraph however, since it's superfluous due to his/her prior statements. Beating a dead horse and making complaints about the company do not have any bearing on the viewpoint of the show - rather, they suggest a bias against the show because his/her "favorites" aren't coming out.

Moreover, this thread is about the review of the first volume alone, and not a comprehensive look at the series as this other individual appears to have done. While I do feel that some of the things that they say have some merit, taking potshots at the fans of the show also hurt the credibility of the review.

Saying that fans cannot substantiate - cannot provide convincing arguments - suggests that they have made up their minds, regardless of what evidence or arguments may come along to dispute their views. I, for one, don't care for reviewers who aren't willing to objectively view others opinions, even if they are different.

edit: corrected spelling mistakes. Embarassed


Last edited by Godaistudios on Tue May 17, 2005 5:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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DragonsRevenge



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 1150
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:44 pm Reply with quote
I thought the sub was handled quite well. Dub is piss poor at best. Lucy's voice is fine, but the rest suck, and the dub script... they couldnt have strayed farther if they tried. I also noticed that they camera panning seems odd somehow, like they pulled the panels across a stationary camera or something.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18435
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:53 pm Reply with quote
khryoleoz wrote:
Hmph. This biased review is in need of some balancing towards the other extreme of bias.


Hey, I stand by all the reviews I write. I spent a couple of days writing that review, and the only part of the ratings which I feel I stretched even a little bit is the dub rating. I also have no stake whatsoever in this title, so I don't know how you can justifiably accuse me of bias. Just because a person has a radically different viewpoint than you do about something, khryoleoz, doesn't mean that they are "biased."

I strongly disagree with many points in your review, but that's fine with me. I know well that not everyone's going to see things the same way I do. What I do take serious issue with is your strong implication that anyone who looks favorably on this title is a moron purely distracted by fan service and gore. Such vitriol has no place in a proper review. Slamming a title is one thing, and some titles certainly deserve to be slammed, but slamming those who like a title is rude and insulting, no matter the quality of your wording.

And really, why are you reviewing a title (especially one like this one) without exploring the artistic, technical, and sound merits of the series? Why are you rating the dub so much worse? A proper review needs to explain all its ratings, and I noted that even you admitted that the artistry and sound were quite good.

Also, let's be absolutely clear about one thing: my review was based exclusively on the first volume - not on the whole series, like yours seems to be. I have not even seen the rest of the series yet, so it's possible my outlook on the series will change after I see the rest of it. Whether you like the series or not, though, it makes a strong first impression, and that is one of the main points I was trying to stress. If you were determined to do a counter-review, khryoleoz, then you should have at least bothered to do it on the same scope of material.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
HitokiriShadow wrote:
I'm a tad concerned about what changes they made to the subtitles, but I'm sure its nothing major.


I'm curious as to what you mean by that. Are you referring to fansubs vs. licensed subtitles?


I misunderstood this line in the review:

"ADV’s dub can take the blame for the English script, however, which strays farther than is necessary from the subtitles, to the point that the meaning of some dialogue is altered. I don’t see this as a major problem, but it won’t sit well with sub-favoring fans."

For some reason, I thought this meant that they changed some lines in the subs.

Quote:
As a general comment, anyone who gets the artbox should look at its cover very carefully and at different angles and lighting conditions, as there are hidden details. That's not in the review because I discovered it after turning in the review, and it got processed (with shocking speed, I might add) before I had a chance to go back and add it in.


I noticed this. It's a very nice touch to the artbox.

Key wrote:

Also, let's be absolutely clear about one thing: my review was based exclusively on the first volume - not on the whole series, like yours seems to be. I have not even seen the rest of the series yet, so it's possible my outlook on the series will change after I see the rest of it.


If you liked the first volume, you will probably like the rest of the series. Do some plot points feel contrived? Perhaps, but I don't think there is anything serious enought to detract from the plot.
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Nagisa
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Joined: 19 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:32 pm Reply with quote
khryoleoz wrote:
Hmph. This biased review is in need of some balancing towards the other extreme of bias.


How could Key's review possibly be "biased" when he wrote it based purely on his exposure to the first volume on its own with no prior experience at all with the series? If he were being biased, he'd have needed prior exposure to the series to develop a pre-disposed notion towards blindly singing its praises "just because it's Elfen Lied."

The fact that you don't even know what the word "bias" even means invalidates your entire sorry, stuck-up review.
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SnowfairyX



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 438
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:23 pm Reply with quote
I just finished watching the first episode of Elfen Lied. I heard about how violent this anime was, and the first 5-10 minutes definitely doesn't disappoint. The first episode did not disappoint me and I hope that the rest of the series will live up to my expectations.
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Cloe
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2728
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:47 pm Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
How could that possibly bother you more thenspoiler[a child being sexually assualted] and spoiler[innocent children and adults being slaughtered]? Is it something to do with it being animated and being used to seeing the one over the other? What I really don't understand is the ones that feel that way in real life situations.


I do feel the same way in real life situations. I don't really know why I feel that way; it's just instictual. (Maybe because I have had pet dogs but not children yet?) Anyway, the very thought of spoiler[an animal being intentionally hurt begins to make me cry. The idea that there's no way for them to communicate their pain with language, either, makes it all that more heart-wrenching for me. Of course I think child abuse (especially sexual in nature) is horrible, and young children are just as innocent and powerless as puppies. But I don't know why I shouldn't feel as bad for the animals just because they're not human.] There's no way for me to change my natural reaction anyway, no matter how much I'm lectured at; it's just the way I am, so cut me a break, please.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:09 pm Reply with quote
Cloe wrote:
There's no way for me to change my natural reaction anyway, no matter how much I'm lectured at; it's just the way I am, so cut me a break, please.


I'm not trying to lecture you to feel otherwise, it's just not something I've ever understood. Like I said, both situations are horrible, but between the two, spoiler[the suffering of a human would tug on my heart more.] Certainly, to each his own, I'm just trying to understand from the other side of the fence is all.
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:54 pm Reply with quote
Dub getting an A-?
I thought it was one of the crappier dub I heard in a while.

The good and bad:

+ The background animation was really nice with the blossom effect
- But the actually character animation was poor. Cheap looking "stock" character with simple design: Yuka and Kohta

+ Interesting story about Lucy/Nyu.
- Unoriginal romance story between Yuka and Kohta spoiler[Yuka has feeling for Kohta but is afraid to say it. Kohta is a clutz and does not catch on quick, which lead to a bunch of misunderstand. ]

+ Awesome sound effect
- Flat english dub.

+ Violence to the extreme
- or +? Cheap used of fanservice for humor.
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khryoleoz



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:36 am Reply with quote
Bias may also be taken as a preference or inclination. The reviewer's opening remarks makes apparent his predisposition towards the type of material in which Elfen Lied is manifest. While he does consider the possibility of a viewer's repulsion, he dismisses it as simply induced by the mere graphical nature that is its shock value. But because the show lacks substance, and is indeed desperate in the areas I've identified and elaborated upon, its shock value would be the only element that would compel any committment to further viewing. It is on this level that I've discerned a "bias", and this in fact is the same preconditioning that viewers who are so drawn to the series find themselves to be so. I am not establishing that it is uncouth for people to find this series enjoyable for what it is, a shocker (note the first sentence of my review). But I deny and debunk the attributing of superlative execution when the character development and relational interaction, the title's second most vital element after shock value, is incoherent and the premise that mischaracterizes the Diclonius' supremacy as simply being monsters is a recycled idea.

Pretentious am I? Given that I am but a mere consumer no more significant than another suggesting an unsolicited opposing view point while not even a staff reviewer and well aware that I am in the minority with the position I hold, I suppose one can say that. But not as pretentious as the creator/adaptor of Elfen Lied is by mixing together a number of seen and tried situations hoping that the result will be an original product. By allowing Neopoletan ice cream to melt, you only get strawberry, chocolate, and vanilla mixed together, not a new flavor of ice cream.

Now, to conclude that my own bias against Elfen Lied stems from ADV's faultering committment to earlier acquired and distributed titles that I prefer suggests that my profound exposition of Elfen Lied's short comings had not been read or were just cast aside. No, Elfen Lied, even outside of ADV's acquisition to distribution rights as well as their production backing to whatever degree, would be more enjoyable had it been honest and direct about its pursuit of the harem angle, or rendered meaning to the violence and death that it depicts by introducing characters that are endowed with some level of realism in their growth.

I am an appreciative consumer of anime and recognize that as small as I am I have value by contributing to the industry's fiscal health. I have bought my first volume with limited edition box of Elfen Lied, despite my own grudges against the licensor for breach of consumer expectation concerning the two titles I've come to love and determine to be more marketable by appealing to a wider audience even though they obviously disagree with me. But I profess that my review is not based on the first volume but the entire series. Having seen the entire broadcast run, I am privy to the title's progression throughout and limiting my observations within the scope of the first four episodes would be counterproductive. Furthermore, the title's commercial success gambles on its "strong impact", but it has campaigned on creating this impact out of questionable material content. Therefore, it is crucial to demonstrate the merits of this title by clearly identifying those who are predisposed to enjoying it.

Now if I'm wrong in any area, please point it out. For to be corrected is to my own benefit. And if anybody can give me some satisfying news about the other two ADV titles that have been all but abandoned, please feel free to share that tidbit even if it were only to dissuade my bitter perception of a licensor that has quite justifiably garnered the reputation in my view.


Last edited by khryoleoz on Wed May 18, 2005 12:43 am; edited 3 times in total
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Advent_Nebula



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 932
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:40 am Reply with quote
Those two titles that will remain un named in here will be web only titles that can be bought through ADVfilms.com and select online retailers.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:40 am Reply with quote
Godaistudios wrote:
Kazuki-san wrote:
Cloe wrote:
Just something about spoiler[animals suffering] makes my heart ache like nothing else.


I'm often confused when people say things like that. How could that possibly bother you more thenspoiler[a child being sexually assualted] and spoiler[innocent children and adults being slaughtered]? Is it something to do with it being animated and being used to seeing the one over the other? What I really don't understand is the ones that feel that way in real life situations.


Personally, I think it has more to do with people being jaded with human nature in general. Additionally, I think people are tired and somewhat desensitized of hearing the same things in the news all the time. Perhaps the lesser offense is more shocking because it isn't so commonplace?
I think it's more of "I'm not a parent so I don't understand what that means". The only thing equally as tragic as a dead child, is being the dead child's parent.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:44 am Reply with quote
khryoleoz wrote:
Bias may also be taken as a preference or inclination. The reviewer's opening remarks makes apparent his predisposition towards the type of material in which Elfen Lied is manifest. While he does consider the possibility of a viewer's repulsion, he dismisses it as simply induced by the mere graphical nature that is its shock value. But because the show lacks substance, and is indeed desperate in the areas I've identified and elaborated upon, its shock value would be the only element that would compel any committment to further viewing. It is on this level that I've discerned a "bias", and this in fact is the same preconditioning that viewers who are so drawn to the series find themselves to be so. I am not establishing that it is uncouth for people to find this series enjoyable for what it is, a shocker (note the first sentence of my review). But I deny and debunk the attributing of superlative execution when the character development and relational interaction, the title's second most vital element after shock value, is incoherent and the premise that mischaracterizes the Diclonius' supremacy as simply being monsters is a recycled idea.

Pretentious am I? Given that I am but a mere consumer no more significant than another suggesting an unsolicited opposing view point while not even a staff reviewer and well aware that I am in the minority with the position I hold, I suppose one can say that. But not as pretentious as the creator/adaptor of Elfen Lied is by mixing together a number of seen and tried situations hoping that the result will be an original product. By allowing Neopoletan ice cream to melt, you only get strawberry, chocolate, and vanilla mixed together, not a new flavor of ice cream.

Now, to conclude that my own bias against Elfen Lied stems from ADV's faultering committment to earlier acquired and distributed titles that I prefer suggests that my profound exposition of Elfen Lied's short comings had not been read or were just cast aside. No, Elfen Lied, even outside of ADV's acquisition to distribution rights as well as their production backing to whatever degree, would be more enjoyable had it been honest and direct about its pursuit of the harem angle, or rendered meaning to the violence and death that it depicts by introducing characters that are endowed with some level of realism in their growth.

I am an appreciative consumer of anime and recognize that as small as I am I have value by contributing to the industry's fiscal health. I have bought my first volume with limited edition box of Elfen Lied, despite my own grudges against the licensor for breach of consumer expectation concerning the two titles I've come to love and determine to be more marketable by appealing to a wider audience even though they obviously disagree with me. But I profess that my review is not based on the first volume but the entire series. Having seen the entire broadcast run, I am privy to the title's progression throughout and limiting my observations within the scope of the first four episodes would be counterproductive. Furthermore, the title's commercial success gambles on its "strong impact", but it has campaigned on creating this impact out of questionable material content. Therefore, it is crucial to demonstrate the merits of this title by clearly identifying those who are predisposed to enjoying it.

Now if I'm wrong in any area, please point it out. For to be corrected is to my own benefit. And if anybody can give me some satisfying news about the other two ADV titles that have been all but abandoned, please feel free to share that tidbit even if it were only to dissuade my bitter perception of a licensor that has quite justifiably garnered the reputation in my view.
In short, he doesn't agree with the review, so deal. Razz
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