Forum - View topiccowboy bebop and western literature
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BoygetsfireD
 Posts: 475 Location: earth |
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Well, I've noticed (mostly throught english class) that a very common theme in western literature is that of a woman bringing all the pain, suffering, and ultimately ruining everything.
In Cowboy Bebop, spoiler[Julia is what causes all the pain for Spike and is responsible for him getting killed in the end.] But Cowboy Bebop was made in Japan, which definatey is not a western culture. So, did the creators of Cowboy Bebop intentionally make it that way, or is it a theme that is just common in every culture? [edits - sorry if I spoiled it for anybody] Last edited by BoygetsfireD on Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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slickwataris
 Posts: 1334 Location: Carol Stream, Illinois |
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I'm going to say the latter. It's what the pyschologists would call the "collective unconcious."
Last edited by slickwataris on Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11434 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Dude, put spoiliers on that one part. Not everyone's seen the ending yet, though I have and I love it.
But as for the supposedly shared theme, I don't think it's necessarily something that just Western culture came up with, but that it's probably just a cliche that's been used the most. I mean, it's so easy for a guy to blame everything on women, right? Not that I do, but that's the nature of human males at times. Um.. I guess when it comes to that sort of relationship where intimacy can become involved, guys tend to take it a litte harder, which is not to say girls don't get affected either. I suppose since there are more males on the planet, more of the stuff that's written might be more geared for that audience. I don't know  .
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kamiboy
 Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Watanabe (The director of CB) has said in interviews that he loves noire and old-fashioned American detective movies and is very much influenced by them. Now, correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a prevalent cliché in such movies that the troubles of the main guy always begin with the entering of a beauty into the detective’s office?
Coincidence? Prolly… but worth mentioning anyway. |
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Bruce Lee
 Posts: 715 Location: Seattle, Washington |
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You mean a DAME? 
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Indeed I think I did. |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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^ Wow. I'm glad that guy's joined up to share his insights with us.
Anyways, Watanabe's film noir roots do run deep (Detective Story, anyone?) and Cowboy Bebop was his first chance to really show them off. Watanabe is very western in his direction and writing. The only other person in anime I can think of with as much influence who is equally western is Kenichi Sonoda. It's part of the reason Cowboy Bebop is so accessible to American audiences. |
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Yes, I was quite perplexed by the many similarities between the two. Watanabe seems to have a affection for spoiler[killing of the main guy in the end] and also seems to have a special fetish for weird things happening to the main guy's eye. That eye scene in Detective Story is almost en exact replica of the scene in CB. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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One of the key characters in any noir film is the femme fatale, who leads the protagonist into danger with her charms, spoiler[and sometimes to his death. No doubt, this is the role that Julia played, leading Spike to his untimely demise. Incidentally, the other main aspects of film noir are the ideas that the protagonist descends into chaos, good never, ever wins and corruption rules all. While evil didn't exactly win at the end of Cowboy Bebop, I'm sure that nobody would argue that the good side didn't come out so well, either. Spike, Jet, and Faye all end the story either in chaos (the metaphorical kind that runs rampant in noir) or death, which is the classic film noir ending.] Pretty great, huh? Film noir is possibly the most important genre to the development of the early motion picture, so I always love to see traces of noir in more modern works. |
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Haiseikoh 1973
 Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
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I have to agree with him. Comparing Cowboy Bebop to Western Lit is like trying to find a Philosophical Moral in Super Milk Chan or Theological Debate in Saint Tail. |
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ShellBullet
 Posts: 1051 Location: I hit things, with my fist. |
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So, you're reading between the letters to see what "that guy" was meaning to say? (I would say reading between the lines, but there was only one) Besides, saying that you can't compare and contrast a film to works of literature is ridiculous. Go to any film class on any college campus. I know some hyperactive fans take their anime too seriously and think that all anime are works of high art par excelance, but there is no need to go so far the other direction as to say that anime never has any artistic merit. It's also rather surprising that you would put Milk Chan and CB on the same level; that would be akin to comparing Amadeus with Dude, Where's my Car. |
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Craeyst Raygal
Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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Actually, Shellbullet, my first line's significance has been all but lost. Some new guy with one of those nonsensical alpha-numeric names joined up and used his first post to reply to this topic with "bleh". The post has since been deleted.
Thus, I was speaking sarcastically about him. Kamiboy is on the right track, though, and I can't say I fully disagree with Haseikoh stating that Bebop isn't exactly fine art. It's a fine series that does very well presenting interesting and entertaining characters who do interesting and entertaining things. Heck, Toys in the Attic is probably the episode that sums up the series at its best. Throughout the whole episode, the cast is speaking "off-camera" to share their insights and philosophies on life; phrasing them as lessons. But, when all is said and done, the main character simply says "What was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.", brushing the whole escapade off as nonsense. Bebop doesn't take itself too seriously and is all the better for it. So let's not ourselves take it too seriously. |
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kamiboy
Posts: 570 Location: CA |
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Actually, it gave me the impression that it switched back and forth between being serious and goofing around. No doubt that the Jupiter Jazz and The Real Folk Blues episodes had a very serious tone to them. This bipolar approach to storytelling is something that is very hard to get right, but Bebop nails it. The episodic nature of the show, which many seem to complain about, was in part what allowed it to do this. Actually each episode is like small movie and if you pay attention you will notice that almost every episodes seems to tackle a different genre, like Horror (Toys in the Attic), thriller (Pierrot le Fou), comedy (Mushroom Samba), western (Cowboy Funk), adventure (Speak Like a Child) etc. etc. |
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ShellBullet
Posts: 1051 Location: I hit things, with my fist. |
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Yes, I saw the original post that said "bleh" and knew what you meant; I didn't notice it had been deleted. |
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Yunamaster
 Posts: 9 Location: Suffolk, England |
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I think maybe the people who made cowboy bebop probably wanted their anime to be different, to get a wider audience!
But,spoiler[Is there going to be a cowboy bebop 2 comin out in the U.K?] |
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