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Does laputa have any relevance to the spanish meaning?


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philg



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:11 am Reply with quote
The anime Laputa: Caslte in the Sky directed by Hayao Miyazaki has a very strange name, since it doesnt exactly sound japanese and the spanish word 'laputa' means... something im not allowed to say in the forum, i was wondering if there is an alternative meaning that actually had relation to the movie.
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abunai
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:32 am Reply with quote
The name "Laputa" (in the Japanese, originally written as ラピュタ, "Rapyuta") was probably borrowed for its exotic sound, from Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels. So the answer is no, it isn't meant to have any connection with the Spanish phrase meaning "the whore".

It's not unusual for storytellers to borrow exotic names from foreign languages and reuse them in a new context. Miyazaki-sensei, it is true, does do this rather a lot. The name of one of his heroines, Nausicaä (ナウシカ, "Naushika", in the original), was borrowed from Homer's Odyssey (a princess who appears in the 6th Song).

- abunai

Note: I have no problems with saying nasty words, so long as the context is dispassionate and impersonal.
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kainzero



Joined: 08 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:37 am Reply with quote
that's why... in america... they only put "castle in the sky" on the front. =P
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Sarki-Kun



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:37 am Reply with quote
Well, it's not licensed in Spain, but I have seen so much times people speaking about Laputa: Castillo en el aire...

Yes, you comment that to someone who doesn't know about it and their first thoughts would be: That's a hentai! (if he/she is an anime fan) or That's porn! (if he/she isn't an anime fan).

But I'm not sure if they would change the original name...Certainly, I wouldn't like so, even if it sounds mad, it is its original name Anime smile However, NO, the name doesn't have any relevance with the spanish word. It's more like Abunai said...

Abunai wrote:
So the answer is no, it isn't meant to have any connection with the Spanish phrase meaning "the whore"


Well, that's an exact translation, but the same word is worst and more offensive in spanish than in english...
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littlegreenwolf



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:36 pm Reply with quote
Kiki also had to have a name change in Spanish I believe. It was only in one country, but they completely renamed Kiki because her name was offensive.
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jsyxx





PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:11 pm Reply with quote
LOL, this is pretty funny.
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abunai
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:28 pm Reply with quote
At the risk of nudging this thread entirely off topic, I'd like to point out that nearly every pair of languages has some subset of words which are innocuous in one of the languages, but sound dirty in the other language.

English-speaking visitors to Denmark often get a laugh out of the legend on the elevators, where it says: "In use". You see, the Danish phrase is: "I FART". Rolling Eyes

Similarly, a Thai acquaintance of mine whose name is Porntip, was teased mercifully during a stay in the U.S.

So, Laputa can be read as a dirty word in Spanish. In fact, it's even possible that the name originally invented by Swift took its inspiration from the Spanish phrase (which Swift would certainly have been familiar with - satirists pick up on these things).

So what? In this case, it's just a name.

- abunai
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Sword of Whedon



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:51 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The name "Laputa" (in the Japanese, originally written as ラピュタ, "Rapyuta") was probably borrowed for its exotic sound, from Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels.


No, it was borrowed because in Gulliver's Travels, the floating city of Laputa was a home of great technology and such that used it to extort the masses. Laputa is supposed to be Laputa of Gulliver.
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abunai
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Sword of Whedon wrote:
Quote:
The name "Laputa" (in the Japanese, originally written as ラピュタ, "Rapyuta") was probably borrowed for its exotic sound, from Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels.


No, it was borrowed because in Gulliver's Travels, the floating city of Laputa was a home of great technology and such that used it to extort the masses. Laputa is supposed to be Laputa of Gulliver.


I disagree - I don't think Miyazaki intended for this Laputa to thought of as the very same one which existed in Swift's story. When I say "borrowed for its exotic sound", I mean: instead of a Japanese-sounding name. Naturally, Miyazaki borrowed an exotic name which was more or less applicable.

See Soukyuu no Fafner or Elfen Lied for similar exotic borrowings (from German). It really is a common practice to borrow names, without implying a 100% correspondence with the material one is borrowing the names from.

- abunai
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jsyxx





PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:09 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
At the risk of nudging this thread entirely off topic, I'd like to point out that nearly every pair of languages has some subset of words which are innocuous in one of the languages, but sound dirty in the other language.

English-speaking visitors to Denmark often get a laugh out of the legend on the elevators, where it says: "In use". You see, the Danish phrase is: "I FART".

Similarly, a Thai acquaintance of mine whose name is Porntip, was teased mercifully during a stay in the U.S.

So, Laputa can be read as a dirty word in Spanish. In fact, it's even possible that the name originally invented by Swift took its inspiration from the Spanish phrase (which Swift would certainly have been familiar with - satirists pick up on these things).

So what? In this case, it's just a name.

True. Anohter example is that fanny refers to a whole other piece of anatomy in the UK.
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dormcat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:21 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:
Sword of Whedon wrote:
No, it was borrowed because in Gulliver's Travels, the floating city of Laputa was a home of great technology and such that used it to extort the masses. Laputa is supposed to be Laputa of Gulliver.

I disagree - I don't think Miyazaki intended for this Laputa to thought of as the very same one which existed in Swift's story. When I say "borrowed for its exotic sound", I mean: instead of a Japanese-sounding name. Naturally, Miyazaki borrowed an exotic name which was more or less applicable.

To abunai: Rewatch it at 17:22, where spoiler[Pazu told Sheeta about how his father took the picture of Laputa and the story behind it. Pazu even mentioned Gulliver's Travel and Swift's name.]

To philg: refer to Dr. Marc Hairston's page more information about the name of Laputa.
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ShellBullet



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:56 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:
I disagree - I don't think Miyazaki intended for this Laputa to thought of as the very same one which existed in Swift's story. When I say "borrowed for its exotic sound", I mean: instead of a Japanese-sounding name. Naturally, Miyazaki borrowed an exotic name which was more or less applicable.


There is a bit more in common between Swift's Laputa and Miyazaki's Laputa than just the name. They are both floating cities with advanced technology, bordering on magic in Miyazaki-sama's version. There seems to be some disagreement on where Swift got the word, it is possible it was meant to be "the whore," perhaps conecting it to some sort of "Babylon the Great" or others point out that "put" was a common term of the day for dolt or idiot. Today we inherit the word "putz." If that was the case then it would mean that the "scientific" city of laputa was actually filled with idiots, conforming to Jonathan Swifts rather disparaging view of science.
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abunai
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:46 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
abunai wrote:
Sword of Whedon wrote:
No, it was borrowed because in Gulliver's Travels, the floating city of Laputa was a home of great technology and such that used it to extort the masses. Laputa is supposed to be Laputa of Gulliver.

I disagree - I don't think Miyazaki intended for this Laputa to thought of as the very same one which existed in Swift's story. When I say "borrowed for its exotic sound", I mean: instead of a Japanese-sounding name. Naturally, Miyazaki borrowed an exotic name which was more or less applicable.

To abunai: Rewatch it at 17:22, where spoiler[Pazu told Sheeta about how his father took the picture of Laputa and the story behind it. Pazu even mentioned Gulliver's Travel and Swift's name.]

Again, I'm going to have to disagree. Pazu talks about how Swift wrote about Laputa in Gulliver's Travels, and then he says: あれはただの空想何だ (are wa tada no kuusou nan da, "but that was just a flight of fancy"). I interpret this to mean that, in the story universe (which obviously isn't our own universe - Miyazaki likes to create worlds similar but not identical to ours, viz. Porco Rosso and Kiki's Delivery Service), there was a Swift who wrote of a floating castle Laputa. However, it's quite definitely not the same Laputa that is floating in the sky - and the story's Swift was (like our own Swift) not writing of the real world - he was writing a fantastic satire. I've always thought of this as Miyazaki's "nod" to the source of the name, and nothing more.

ShellBullet wrote:
There is a bit more in common between Swift's Laputa and Miyazaki's Laputa than just the name. They are both floating cities with advanced technology, bordering on magic in Miyazaki-sama's version. There seems to be some disagreement on where Swift got the word, it is possible it was meant to be "the whore," perhaps conecting it to some sort of "Babylon the Great" or others point out that "put" was a common term of the day for dolt or idiot. Today we inherit the word "putz." If that was the case then it would mean that the "scientific" city of laputa was actually filled with idiots, conforming to Jonathan Swifts rather disparaging view of science.

An attractive idea, but I don't think Swift would have been familiar with the word "putz". It may be fairly common in America today - but that is because it's a Yiddish word (it originally comes from "pots", meaning "penis", by the way - cf. the American use of calling someone a "dick"), imported with the fairly large population of Ashkenazim Jews that migrated to the U.S. in the 19th century.

In the England of Swift's day (Gulliver's Travels was published in 1729), the word "putz" would have been much more exotic than a Spanish word for "harlot". In fact, I'm not even sure the word would have been that widespread among the Jewish population. It may well have been a slang term that only came into use during the 19th century, and (like many items of current slang among immigrants) became fixed in the language upon migration, because linguistic ties with the original language base were severed or reduced.

In any case, I consider it unlikely that Swift would have known the term, so... even though I like your idea of Swift deriving Laputa's name that way, with the purpose of describing a city of technologists as populated by idiots, I don't think it is very likely to be correct. However, if (as you say), there was a different word ("put", meaning "idiot") in use in Swift's time, that might be the source. I've never heard of this usage, though - do you have a source for it?

Going back to the "horse's mouth":

Jonathan Swift, in Gulliver's Travels (1729) wrote:
After dinner my company withdrew, and a person was sent to me by the king's order, attended by a flapper. He brought with him pen, ink, and paper, and three or four books, giving me to understand by signs, that he was sent to teach me the language. We sat together four hours, in which time I wrote down a great number of words in columns, with the translations over against them; I likewise made a shift to learn several short sentences; for my tutor would order one of my servants to fetch something, to turn about, to make a bow, to sit, or to stand, or walk, and the like. Then I took down the sentence in writing. He showed me also, in one of his books, the figures of the sun, moon, and stars, the zodiac, the tropics, and polar circles, together with the denominations of many plains and solids. He gave me the names and descriptions of all the musical instruments, and the general terms of art in playing on each of them. After he had left me, I placed all my words, with their interpretations, in alphabetical order. And thus, in a few days, by the help of a very faithful memory, I got some insight into their language. The word, which I interpret the flying or floating island, is in the original Laputa, whereof I could never learn the true etymology. Lap, in the old obsolete language, signifies high; and untuh, a governor; from which they say, by corruption, was derived Laputa, from Lapuntuh. But I do not approve of this derivation, which seems to be a little strained. I ventured to offer to the learned among them a conjecture of my own, that Laputa was quasi lap outed; lap, signifying properly, the dancing of the sunbeams in the sea, and outed, a wing; which, however, I shall not obtrude, but submit to the judicious reader.

- from the Project Gutenberg edition of Gulliver's Travels (emphasis in dark red is mine)

So you see, Swift had his own fantasy etymology for the name, from the imaginary language of the Laputans. Smile

-abunai
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hakootoko



Joined: 06 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:30 am Reply with quote
So, if Sheeta is an orphan, how did she support herself before she met Pazu? Smile

hakootoko
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dormcat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:36 am Reply with quote
My gosh. How about saving your work of art into Laputa's Trivia, abunai?

hakootoko wrote:
So, if Sheeta is an orphan, how did she support herself before she met Pazu? Smile

Your question is irrelevant to the original subject. Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop

spoiler[Her parents left some farmland enough for her to survive. She was herding cattle when Muska et al. came to abduct her.]
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