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Forum - View topicNEWS: Tokyo's '2D Child Porn' Bill Delayed to at Least Fall
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10456 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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People should really read Dan Kanemitsu's explanation of this bill (linked to in the article). One common misunderstanding is the belief that Tokyo is debating outlawing certain material. They aren't (not yet at least). They're debating requiring certain material to be identified as harmful to children and therefore not to be consumed by children. It's also important to understand that pornographic material is not affected by this. Pr0n is already treated in this way, it's non-pornographic material that will be affected in this way.
Love Hina, Suzuka, Nana and Kimi wa Pet are examples of titles that could become restricted to adults only. This isn't to say that the bill has nothing to do with child pr0n. Read Dan's explanation. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Wierd.... keeping teens from reading Nana, while allowing adults to continue to read child porn manga titles?
Japan continues to be messed up. It sounds like they're tackling the wrong area by targetting shonen/shojo titles with some mature content and making it illegal for teens to access them, when they should be focusing just on making child porn illegal for anyone to possess [a part of the bill, but though I found Dan's article helpful, it's still unclear if that would affect the drawn stuff, which has been outlawed in many other countries. It's like they went after a minor issue instead of going after the major one] Last edited by Paploo on Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:27 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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GrilledEelHamatsu
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There's certainly alot of growing oppossition across Japan about this new law, mainly because of the buracuracy its created with many adult manga site here in the U.S. having to remove massive shotacon and lolicon scantlations and even google eliminating hentai from it's search engine. Meanwhile in Japan, most doujinshi artists are protesting this due to the fact that before this, there was never a problem or issue allowing minors to buy hentai it was the parents that made the decision whether or not it was appropiate for them and a could give a clerk consent to sell it to minors. I'm on the side of the opposition, hentai depicting children is fictional,benign,harmless. It does NOT make young teen boys go and want to rape or molest a little girl. All studies have shown that it doesn't hurt the minds of kids. I would be for them banning the sell of loli and shota to pedophiles(hell, that makes sense.) But this bill is too damn conservetive. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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I just think masturbation material with 5 year olds is disgusting. Last I checked, that's not a controversial or wrong opinion. Which this law would apparently still allow in manga's case [though it would make the possession of material w/real kids illegal as part of things, which is something Japan doesn't have at the moment, and severely needs. I hope no one find fault with me believing that- I think at the very least, they need that to happen whatever other changes are made to the law when it's reconsidered]. You guys can say whatever you want, but no thanks, don't want that, and I hope it's illegal eventually in Japan. Because I don't really buy the line that people reading this material will never touch a real kid.... animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-10-22/twins-20-jailed-for-child-porn-including-manga-images Glad Dan cleared up things with his article. And going away before this all turns into a DefendTehLolis thread, so I don't have to go puke. Last edited by Paploo on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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But it's not as cut and dry that actual porn is "off the hook" while content available to a general audience is being targeted for censorship and/or regulation. If we suggest that people are influenced by fictional, 2D material, it would make sense for concerned parties to focus on consumers who they deem are most affected.
It seems more like a way to satiate demands for solving whatever problems are more within the realm of reason, rather than tackling the many uncertainties of the psychology and sexuality of the adult mind. Therefore I find their approach logical if adopting their perspective on the matter. So need I mention I wasn't the one that suggested Japan was "messed up" about it? Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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With ero-manga currently, those can only be purchased by adults, so this law doesn't affect them as Dan's article explains. Children can't buy them under current laws. It would just make the availabliity of general audiences titles w/some mature content [but not pornographic content as tempest indicated] limited. It sounds to be adding to already existing regulations concerning content available to minors. Last edited by Paploo on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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I'm confused, too...I'm all for regulating what minors can buy in terms of explicit content, but if this is banning the sale of sexual illustrations of minors to minors only, then what's the point? Why can't the ban encompass all sexual content, rather than just with minors?
And, would this even limit parental consent? Currently, in the US, someone can buy a rated "M" series as long as the parent was with them and gave consent. I don't see why keeping and using this system would be a problem in Japan, either, rather than just banning the content outright. Just make the laws more strict so that clerks aren't letting young kids run in, buy inappropriate series, and dash away. Some of those titles, like Nana and Love Hina, aren't even restricted to adults here  They're just reserved for older teens, unless parents say otherwise...Why not set up a system where comics are made available to people depending on content; show an ID if you're 16 for this series, 18 for that series, etc, etc if it comes down to that.
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nynextew
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When I was 16, I wasn't allowed to have an ID. So how would that work for that particular group? |
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Kougeru
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First of all, MOST loli characters are 10-17..not 5..that's toddlercon. 2nd, there's a difference between people that have real child porn ALSO having "manga images" and people who ONLY have manga someday becoming child molesters..this probably happens less than it dose with normal people becoming them because look at 2D lovers...THEY FREAKIN MARRY VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS. At least one did, but there are LOTS of them are honestly don't give a rat's about real girls of any age..they just like young-looking 2d girls...and we shouldn't take that from them. Also, do some more fact checking because Japan DOES have real CP outlawed..and has for awhile. Last edited by Kougeru on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RestLessone
Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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Not sure--it was just a "if it comes down to it" suggestion. It also depends on what sort of ID you mean. It doesn't necessarily mean a driver's license or something; just proof of the birth date or age. Schools in my area give students school IDs. Or, you could just get parental consent or order online. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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...... masterbating to a 10 year old is still just as gross 0_o I hate to break it to you guys, but people will generally find that gross. Telling me it's normal or okay in caps will not change that fact nor will it change my opinion on the matter. Some people will be creeped out by that.
I think it's up to the law to determine what's ultimately legal, and to ensure people are protected from it if deemed illegal. Currently, in the UK, Canada and Australia, this stuff is all illegal. You guys are free to have your opinions, just like I'm free to hope more countries ban this stuff. All that said, I hope Tokyo does make it's rules more clear, and only affect pornographic content rather than normal teen fiction. It sounds like this bill isn't quite what many thought it would be, and it's still unsettling real child porn is legal to posess in Japan [Kougeru, read Dan's article- possessing it is still legal. Yeah, so Japan=Messed Up] |
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jsyxx
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Something being gross isn't a legal rationale for sending someone to jail for something that effects no other living human beings (drawings aren't real). This is why you fail. If you're fine with this, then maybe you should allow a government bureaucrat to stand in front of you every time you are doing anything sexual. It's the only way to make sure you're not doing anything gross after all. Rape isn't illegal because it's gross. |
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Dakaran
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Those kind of laws must never be vague and must be perfectly written to the coma and dot precisely what they cover, what they are and how they apply.
I'm 1000% against it because in its essence it will be destroying the anime industry and creator's freedom because some americans are prude geez! Americans complainiing get the hell out of here. I want my vampire series to be dark, sensual and enthralling. I want my ecchi series to like Rosario Capu to be fun and appealing, Ikkitousen to have super beautiful fighters in sexy dress if they have to, and all that without breaking the diversity of appeal from all types of anime series. Series like Sora no Otoshimono who were very cool with lots of fun and jokes, and also beautiful concerts had pantsu fever and pantsu storms so it should never be depiced as a problem. Girls under 16 ok maybe but what the hell 18 is hard to tell on screen most of the time. I hope Japan categorically rejects this bill. Freedom of creativity and speech are essential in this world. As long as it doesn't harm other human beings it's fine. Accept others in society want to express themselves freely. The only time you can draw a clear line is around the age of 15 or below or 22 and above. There is a zone that blurs 16-19, sorry not possible to deal with that efficiently in anime. I want my series to stay the same that's my point. Once more, I will reiterate what I said, should this bill pass then anime will be destroyed. The strong points of anime is its diversity and cultural impact compared to stupid american culture stagnant and lifeless. I don't want to see a walt disney damn it, I want an anime full of colors, exciting stories and full of variety! There will be no substance without creativity. How are they suppose to draw dresses for girls or guys if they always have to check on the back of their mind it's border line or not, is it ok or too much? The hell with that as I wasn't raised in Canada, a country of freedom, for nothing, without having a clear view and understanding of those situations. I'll make the choice what I want to see and leave it ok for others to get what they want. It was fine before and is fine now too, go cry me a river elsewhere but you ain't depriving artists of their freedom for sure passing a bill like that. =p! SAY NO TO THAT BILL! >.< ~Dak Last edited by Dakaran on Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:06 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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jtstellar
Posts: 94 |
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you clearly miss the point. i always surf away from extremely "loli" websites the instance i see a picture depicting an individual that seems overly young, so i have no hobby resembling what this bill claims to warn against and therefore no direct stake in this, and let's put that aside so at least that false impression won't be driving the argument especially for someone that seems quite inapt in politics. here is the more informed aspect on legislating: government always passes law in incremental-ism. a bill will never get the support of enough legislators if it is too sweeping and or proposes too rapid a change. many radical legislators will therefore simply open up a crack in the dam and settle for any kind of compromise. take the issue in the united states of legislating personal habits. it started off with a law to put warning labels on packs of cigarettes. once the precedent of stepping into rule making in regards to personal behavior is established, the government can easily make a case for banning smoking in public cases, then smoking in even privately owned restaurants in some states, and more. there are actually talks of banning smoking in people's own houses in some states. new york city just recently began to regulate the amount of SALT you can have in your food. it is a trend. incremental-ism. and no, please, i don't smoke. if you live in a free society the inherent problem is you will have to deal with expressions you find abhorrent. the larger case for defending the freedom of speech is often in regards to political dissent so the people have a voice in government as to prevent it from becoming tyrannical. regulating art on something pertaining to "lolis", which one may find obscene, may seem far from rights to dissent and petition the government, but it is again another leading trend setter in the series of incremental legislative process that takes away freedom of speech. japan undoubtedly has already passed numerous laws of sorts that intrude on freedom of expression and the precedent must have been well set, otherwise this legislation wouldn't have gotten so far so quick with so little discussion with oppositions from merely the artists. incrementalism always starts with simple warnings and labels by the government. once it successfully labels items as the frantic legislative few desires, they can easily move onto the next step. in that case a country might as well have a permanent ruling class because at least their hobbies will change less, so there will not be a bunch of people getting into office and banning things they don't like then end up with an encyclopedia of bans like the united states. and ya, rely on the same ignorant public mass to force politicians to repeal laws once they find out something's not working? very reassuring. on freedom of speech and expression, it is either everybody defending everybody else's freedom of expression at any time, any place disregarding whether they take pleasure in the content of what is being expressed, or it is no one defending anyone's freedom of expression at all. to be really narrow-minded, most male readers won't care if there's ever a ban on yaoi, and most female readers won't have a care if hardcore male-oriented works are banned that sometimes include violence and some sexually explicit content. so the larger point is about freedom of expression and one needs to realize that. it has nothing to do with the content of what's being expressed. take example i'm sure some middle age pro-war white guy living in the american south hates all things japanese-related including all manga and anime. why don't we just ban everything then? i just hope the ones with a complete absence of understanding of how crucial freedom of expression is which is that no rules should ever be made even to define or label or anything of the sort that even glances on freedom of speech will stay away from legislating sweeping laws for an ENTIRE COUNTRY. and that seemingly would include you. Last edited by jtstellar on Sun May 02, 2010 4:22 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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