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EP. REVIEW: Lycoris Recoil

Chisato's schtick seems to be she can predict the paths of the bullets from the position of the gun as it is being fired (this will be my theory up to the point we see her do it when the shooter is behind her).

I tried the two first episode, but I had to nope hard when the girl was just casually walking between bullet. If you're going to ask me to suspend disbelief that much, just set in a fantastical setting.

I tried the two first episode, but I had to nope hard when the girl was just casually walking between bullet. If you're going to ask me to suspend disbelief that much, just set in a fantastical setting.

Maybe I'll keep an eye on it to see if does go that way eventually, but for now ima pass or I'll just re watch gunsliger girl.

dm wrote:

Chisato's schtick seems to be she can predict the paths of the bullets from the position of the gun as it is being fired (this will be my theory up to the point we see her do it when the shooter is behind her).

No need to have a theory about it; the commander outright says that at the 20:12 mark of episode 3. Of course, she'd also have to have incredible reflexes to take advantage of that insight.

This is a show where I feel like I should be liking it more than I am. I guess Chisato just doesn't do it for me like she does for everyone else. She isn't terrible, but she kind of comes off as a Mary Sue; which is by far my least favorite type of character. I also kind of bounce off of characters who are in extremely violent professions but decide to run around using paint bullets

I wouldn't consider Chisato a mary sue.

Quote:

I wouldn't consider Chisato a mary sue.

Many have the wrong idea of what a Mary Sue is. For most it's just a character, usually female, that can (or seems to) do everything and is loved by everyone.
What they fail to grasp is, that those people actually existed and exist. The first that come to mind are Augustus or Henry I of England.
The problem with those characters is not that they are such high-flyers, but how they got to the point. Lang Lang didn't just sit down at a piano and played Liszts Rondo Fantastique El Contrabandista perfectly on take one, nor did Diana Damrau ace her performance of Der Hölle Rache (seriously go watch her performance at the Royal Opera on YT and after that go watch her train for it. The first looks easy and at the second you can really see her struggle).
A Mary Sue gets bad, when the underlying work is not shown and there's no other explanation, like a higher-being intervening on the characters behalf.

So far Lycoris Recoil hasn't shown us much about Chisato's background, so I can understand some hesitance, but I'd wait a few more episodes to see if that clears up.

Mary Sue is a type of fictional character, usually a young woman, who is portrayed as unrealistically free of weaknesses.[1] Originating in fan fiction, a Mary Sue is often an author's idealized self-insertion. Mary Sue stories are often written by adolescent authors.

09jcg wrote:

This is a show where I feel like I should be liking it more than I am. I guess Chisato just doesn't do it for me like she does for everyone else. She isn't terrible, but she kind of comes off as a Mary Sue; which is by far my least favorite type of character. I also kind of bounce off of characters who are in extremely violent professions but decide to run around using paint bullets

I wouldn't consider Chisato a mary sue. Just because she's top-tier at combat in a way others aren't doesn't mean the show frames her as an infallible person. Chisato admits that she isn't as good of a long ranger shooter as Takina despite her superhuman capabilities. What's more, we can already see cracks in Chisato's approach to "non-violence" in combat as not only does Takina criticize her "tend to enemies as well" policy, but we see how said policy could have had some serious consequences, particulary in episode, where if it wasn't for the fact that the actual point of their mission was to fake Walnut's death, Chisato's insistence to tend to her enemies would have ended in horror. I wouldn't be surprised if later on in the series, Chisato's refusal to kill continues to pile on further complications, until one such complication costs the group something significant. Chisato may be great, but she's not idealized by the writing. She's compassionate, talented and loving, but she's also snarky, sarcastic, has a bit of a petty side. I wouldn't call that a mary sue. Now granted, how well Chisato's character continues to be explored is going to come down to what challenges the show throws at her to make her dilemma as a lycoris who refuses to kill more interesting.

I think a lot of what you mentioned actually reinforces my point. Let's take the snark for example. That stuff is essentialy tailor made waifu bait aimed specifically to appeal to a male demographic. It's not portrayed as a negative trait within the show, but as a positive where she gets things done that the establishment can't handle. As for the mission where the intent was for walnut to be shot, she essentially had her cake and ate it too. Not only did she save the life, she accomplished the mission. I didn't see that scene as an indictment of her non-violence philosophy. If they do go that angle though, I will gladly retract my statement as that would be an interesting direction for the show to go.

09jcg wrote:

I think a lot of what you mentioned actually reinforces my point. Let's take the snark for example. That stuff is essentialy tailor made waifu bait aimed specifically to appeal to a male demographic. It's not portrayed as a negative trait within the show, but as a positive where she gets things done that the establishment can't handle. As for the mission where the intent was for walnut to be shot, she essentially had her cake and ate it too. Not only did she save the life, she accomplished the mission. I didn't see that scene as an indictment of her non-violence philosophy. If they do go that angle though, I will gladly retract my statement as that would be an interesting direction for the show to go.

I kinda disagree with this honestly despite seeing why you would feel this way. Under any normal circumstances where it felt like the show writers were trying to write an "idealized" character, I'd agree with you, but it just doesn't feel quite apt here. Let's start with your point about the snark which, and I mean no disrespect by this, comes off as you leaning into a particular bias about anime waifu bait just because Chisato already rubs you the wrong way. Perhaps her high genki energy had turned you off from the start and anything else that tried to validate her character as being cool now comes off to you as making her too perfect, or do you have a bias towards female anime characters who are written to have endearing qualities as they come off to you as tools to pander to a male audience, like you've labeled Chisato.

You view Chisato's snark as manipulative writing, but under what narrative pretense exactly? None of the scenes where her snark comes out is ever portrayed as being positive or negative; like when she's acting petulant during her argument with Fuki: They're simply a neutral demonstration of her various relationships with people and the sides of her that come out based on which relationship she's engaging with. It's effective writing that fleshes her personality to be more dynamic as opposed to not. And yea, the shades in her personality are meant to make her feel more like a person so that you can appreciate her as a character.

Your point about her snark being waifu bait doesn't feel like a strong argument because that's like saying any other character that's ever presented in a snarky way without giving a direct reason why it's a negative trait, is simply just bait to make them endearing. And I get it, framing it that way supports your point that Chisato is a mary sue because these kind of characters aren't written with flaws that negatively impact them; they're "flaws" that are a part of making them "the perfect character." Anyway, me pointing out her snark or pettiness or condescending nature at times was more so about illustrating how dynamic the series has taken her bubbly nature and infused dimensions to it. It's not anything deep yet, but it's basic 101 writing being executed well.

On your point about the failed mission, I said cracks; not a full on indictment which seems to be a narrative choice to let that conflict build as opposed to playing those cards right in the second episode; that indictment will probably come later based on well....general storytelling rules of set up and pay off.

The story has at least made the conscious decision to visibly set up and literally called attention to Chisato's non-violence as a potential conflict, with Takina drawing attention to it in a negative light, one in which the narrative doesn't frame her as being entirely in the wrong for doing so. Even though Chisato ended up not having to fully deal with the consequences of her non-violence policy in a dangerous situation, we as the audience have now been primed with the experience that something like this can possibly happen again, and if so, Chisato might not just get away with a slap on the wrist. If the story is already setting this up as a conflict and alluding to how this may be tied to a darker backstory, then the writing is doing its job. The way you framed it, it's as if the episode ignored the conflict entirely and frames Chisato as being right, which it didn't.

Is Chisato some deeply written protagonist? Not yet; has she been decently fleshed out by the writing in an organic manner? Yea, I would say so. Is she waifu bait? Well anyone can be thrown into that category, 3-dimensional or not, so scrutinizing this element requires more constructive criticism. Chisato being shown as an expert in combat above everybody else doesn't make her perfect; that's the only field in which she's shown to be better than others at, and like i mentioned before, Takina has been noted to be a better long-range shooter than her, with visual evidence to back this up.

Before I close this up ill ask this: if you've ever seen Trigun before, do you consider Vash the stampede a gary stu? if you do, why? If you didn't within the first 3 episodes, what did the writing do to convince you of his non-gary stu-ness that you find so different from Chisato.

In regards to Chisato, its a totality of the circumstances type of situation. I dont have a paticular bias towards that character type per se, but its the very likealbe endearing character, coupled with her unending compassion, along with her incredible skills merged with a plot that seems to be saying she is in the right despite what the higher powers say. She honestly reminds me of Marin from Dress Up Darling, but while Marin had the insecurities pertaining to her romance keeping her from being too perfect (side note, I think Marin is a great character as is Yotsuba from quints so I dont have an issue with genki characters). Now take Marin, remove the insecurities, add wisdom beyond your years and incredible combat prowess and its too much for me.

n the case with Fuki, I would argue its being shown in a positive light. At this stage in the plot Fuki is the "enemy". She has part of the system thats keeping Takina out of the agency.

I mean, I guess were not going to be on the same page with this one. you say its wrting being done well, I honestly think its kind of terrible.

Again I disagree, the narrative seems to be providing plot armor for Chisato, creating a scenario where even though she's wrong the plot will make it out so she's right. I could be wrong, but you haven't provided me with a convinccing argument saying otherwise.

I dont consider being less good at long range shooting to be much of a weakness when you can literally dance through gunfire and not get hit.