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Mike Lazzo Changing Adult Swim?


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Fallen Embers



Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: CA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:05 am Reply with quote
http://www.paradigm-city.com/forums/thread.php?threadid=8004&sid=&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=1



"The man in charge of Adult Swim, Mike Lazzo, envisions the future of Adult Swim to be inexpensively produced "funny cartoons," not anime. This "mindset" was further reinforced at the web cam party where certain Adult Swim staff members mocked Big-O, and referred to it as "sh**" before shutting it off."

If there's any basis for this then it's rather troubling to me.
(Edit - I see this has been mentioned previously. Close it if you have to)
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:58 am Reply with quote
Wild Conspiracy Theory time!!

CN probably got word that Viz was researching ideas to start a Japanese Anime Network (the story about Viz hiring folks on some big project). And with ADV and thier Anime Network up and running, it's a good excuse to dump Anime on CN.
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Nagisa
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:08 am Reply with quote
I'm not so sure this is true. I mean, if they were seriously considering getting rid of anime, I don't think they'd be making anime-related programming plans that stretch as far as mid-2005 (Full Metal Alchemist & GitS: Stand-Alone Complex this year, Inu-Yasha movie next year).

They might cut it back (which might be a good thing, given the frustrating amount of reruns being aired now), but I highly doubt they'd eliminate it entirely.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:41 am Reply with quote
I don't think the Anime is going anywhere, considering that ratings are up for AS. 2nd quarter ratings

And for another article FilmForce
but to quote the article (from April this year): "A news release in the press kit gives more detail: among Adults 18-24, Adult Swim gets higher ratings than David Letterman, Craig Kilborn or Jimmy Kimmel; among Men 18-24, Adult Swim does better than any of the three aforementioned talk shows and better than Jay Leno as well. Even among Men 18 to 34, Adult Swim gets higher ratings than either Letterman or Kimmel. As the press release points out, Adult Swim is not only "sweeping past all other basic cable offerings" (in its time period, that is), but talk shows on the supposedly more popular broadcast networks as well."
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Nagisa
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:43 am Reply with quote
It's true the ratings are up, but the sources give all the credit to the comedy. Anime isn't even mentioned. The boys at WS are probably thinking the same way, and probably believe that anime is just a burden stopping them from even bigger numbers.

But then, this is all if the article at the top of this thread is real. Personally, I still don't think anime is doomed, but I can see where the possibility would exist.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:58 am Reply with quote
Nagisa wrote:
It's true the ratings are up, but the sources give all the credit to the comedy. Anime isn't even mentioned.


Maybe, but I tend to think that some of it is people that wanna tune in for the action block tune in earlier and also watch the comedy block that wouldn't normally watch it alone. I'm not saying huge numbers do that, but I bet it adds a bit to the ratings. I also think it's stupid to base ratings the way they are done (Nielsen) I mean c'mon how many Nielsen households do you think have people watching anime and/or have the people (most likely younger) actually reporting that they watched it. A friend of mine's family used to do Nielsen, and I KNOW he never reported anything.

Even if they do plan on doing something with Anime, I doubt it will be until they get some of the ratings in from GitS and FMA
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drakh



Joined: 18 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:32 am Reply with quote
Fallen Embers wrote:
"The man in charge of Adult Swim, Mike Lazzo, envisions the future of Adult Swim to be inexpensively produced "funny cartoons," not anime.

US produced animation ain't cheap, certainly not compared to anime. Because of the differences in pay rates for the people involved, you could produce an episode of a pretty stunning looking anime TV series for what two Adult Swim shorts cost. Never mind that aside from ratings juggernauts like DBZ, CN is undoubtedly paying far less than an anime's actual budget when buying the broadcast rights (I hear Bandai in particular gives them stuff very cheaply). The difference is that the comedy shorts give consistently strong ratings, while anime has been uneven, so they're still feeling their way forward with the latter, trying to figure out what works.
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Kagemusha



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:17 pm Reply with quote
man i hate AS original shows, with the exception of Aqua Teen Hunger Force. they all use really stupid humor. the only show that i really like on AS comedy is Family Guy
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:29 pm Reply with quote
drakh wrote:

US produced animation ain't cheap, certainly not compared to anime. Because of the differences in pay rates for the people involved, you could produce an episode of a pretty stunning looking anime TV series for what two Adult Swim shorts cost. Never mind that aside from ratings juggernauts like DBZ, CN is undoubtedly paying far less than an anime's actual budget when buying the broadcast rights (I hear Bandai in particular gives them stuff very cheaply). The difference is that the comedy shorts give consistently strong ratings, while anime has been uneven, so they're still feeling their way forward with the latter, trying to figure out what works.


Then again, if the bean counters at CN figure out that commiting to more Comedy Shorts will cost them money in the long run, while getting Broadcasting right to Anime is much cheaper in the long run, I wouldn't be surprised if WS goes thru a major shake-up of sorts.

Then again, it's wishful thinking, considering how American companies operate sometimes. Rolling Eyes
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Emerje



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:47 pm Reply with quote
Haiseikoh 1973 wrote:
Wild Conspiracy Theory time!!

CN probably got word that Viz was researching ideas to start a Japanese Anime Network (the story about Viz hiring folks on some big project). And with ADV and thier Anime Network up and running, it's a good excuse to dump Anime on CN.


They've also got their co-project with Bandai, "Adult Swim On Demand" which you can be sure will be an anime graveyard of former Adult Swim shows. Once/If it goes linear then there's a good chance of a decrease of anime on Adult Swim as well. However, if the numbers should go up then they'll be in a much safer position.

But I prefer to wait for something from the source rather than wild speculation. You don't push for a second season of a show just to drag it through the mud. And I really don't get why people are saying this is a sign that there won't be a third season of Big O, what implied that there would be one in the first place? The second season had a pretty certain ending.

drakh wrote:
US produced animation ain't cheap, certainly not compared to anime. Because of the differences in pay rates for the people involved, you could produce an episode of a pretty stunning looking anime TV series for what two Adult Swim shorts cost.


That's true for most US animation (Simpsons is a prime example), but i doubt it's true for AS's original animation. They're made very cheaply by cutting and pasting images over a background in completely 2D environments (don't they use Flash for their animation?) Probably their most expensive original animation is Harvey Birdman as there's a lot of actual animation in there, but that's not the case for Sealab, Brak, or ATHF. I'd have trouble believing that they pay much for their actors either, most of them do multiple roles (ATHF has only 4 regulars, Brak has about 6 per show). I'm also pretty sure they do all of their work inhouse right at Williams Street, another money saver. Cartoon Network is making big money off of cheap animation, it's no wonder they favor it.

Emerje
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Swordfish_II



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:31 pm Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:
Probably their most expensive original animation is Harvey Birdman as there's a lot of actual animation in there, but that's not the case for Sealab, Brak, or ATHF.


Not anymore. Birdman's gone entirely to Flash. Actually, I think it's the only Flash show. Everything else is done in Adobe Aftereffects, I think. And I'm not sure about Sealab since it's not done by Williams Street.
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Emerje



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:46 pm Reply with quote
Just looked it up, 70/30 also uses After Effects on Sealab.

Emerje
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Fallen Embers



Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:04 pm Reply with quote
Interesting. As I said at first, I really have no clue as the validity of these statements. But I would never doubt the will of studio executives to treat their viewship like dirt or a commodity (whichever you view worse). I am curious though, does anyone, perhaps someone who frequents the AS forums, know if there's anything to this "webcam" story?
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Emerje



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Fallen Embers wrote:
I am curious though, does anyone, perhaps someone who frequents the AS forums, know if there's anything to this "webcam" story?


They probably did that, but the whole thing is likely being taken to serious. At the same party Space Ghost held up a sign that said, "Cus anime is teh s uck Adultswim.com" It's just them having fun with fans and trying to get their goat and generate some feedback. Afterall, negative publicity is still publicity.

Emerje
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drakh



Joined: 18 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:40 pm Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:
That's true for most US animation (Simpsons is a prime example), but i doubt it's true for AS's original animation. They're made very cheaply by cutting and pasting images over a background in completely 2D environments (don't they use Flash for their animation?)

Judging by the commentary on the Aqua Teen DVD, producing the episodes takes a lot more time and effort then you'd think. And all of the animators are in the US, and thus get paid far better then a Japanese or Korean would get for the same work (remember those articles about Japanese in-betweeners not earning nearly enough to live off?)

Quote:
Probably their most expensive original animation is Harvey Birdman as there's a lot of actual animation in there,

Used to be outsourced to Rough Draft Studios in Korea, though they switched to doing it in-house with Flash because they were having trouble communicating the timing of the jokes to the animators. It now looks much the same as the other AS shows.

Quote:
I'd have trouble believing that they pay much for their actors either, most of them do multiple roles (ATHF has only 4 regulars, Brak has about 6 per show).

Birdman has SAG actors, so that's nearly $700 per episode (plus residuals). The others are non-union I suspect, so they'll get less, though still more than the average dub actor or seiyuu.

Quote:
I'm also pretty sure they do all of their work inhouse right at Williams Street, another money saver. Cartoon Network is making big money off of cheap animation, it's no wonder they favor it.


Well, to give you some hard numbers (from memory), per half hour slot filled...

Bog standard anime series - about $100,000
AS shorts - about $250,000-$300,000
Powerpuff Girls - about $400,000
Ghost in the Shell: SAC - about $400,000

(The latter reportedly being the most expensive anime TV series ever produced.)

(And of course, some of these numbers may be calculated using different exchange rates, or otherwise outdated.)
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