Forum - View topicDeath Note is drastically over-rated.
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BellosTheMighty
 Posts: 767 |
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Over-rated is the wrong word, actually. I don't know what the right one is, but it's not positive, I assure you. Let me just get some stuff off my chest here...
I was a fan of the Death Note manga. When Viz started releasing it, I was on top of every volume. I'd bring one home and wind up reading it start to finish in an hour or two. It has that kind of appeal- you can't really stop in the middle of a volume, the plot just draws you in. I liked the surprise twists, the big reveals, the unraveling of the complicated plots, and so forth. Even the dark and cynical take on human nature was a selling point- it horrifies us, yes, but at the same time it's very appealing to our misanthropic sides. After a while, though, it occurred to me that when you look past the complex chess games that the plot structures itself on, what you're reading is essentially an angry nerd's revenge fantasy. Think about Light for a minute. When we first meet him, he's a brilliant high school student with top marks- suppossedly number one in the nation, and so brilliant that his classes bore him. He's a loner- if he has any friends, we never hear about them. In fact, he seems to have a barely-restrained contempt for others- his first line in the series is "This world is messed up", or something to that basic effect, and later on in the first chapter he notes that "When you look around, you see all sorts of people the world would be better off without." He's the poster boy for isolated teenagers who fell that the world doesn't respect them. Then when he gets the Death Note and confirms that it works, his first thought is to essentially go on a power trip. He starts getting delusions of Godhood and, like any uncaring god, kills off people who displease him en masse. And when people come after him, he beats them not with power, but because he's just plain *smarter* than them. His refusal to bargain for the Shinigami eyes comes off as nothing so much as a boast- he doesn't need that, he's already able to manipulate anyone into doing anything he wants. And the universe is apparently in agreement with him on that, because he's allowed to run amok on everyone else. In fact, he only stumbles when he has to rely on others, because noone else can equal him. Basically the entire plotline worships Light as this Ubermensch intellect, the kind of thing that the Billy Joel's angry young man thinks he is. I tolerated all that in the manga, or maybe I just got too wrapped up in wondering what would happen next to care. But by the time the anime showed up, I knew the whole story, and with the benefit of hindsight I could see that it was- well, quite frankly it was stuck up it's own ass. I've been watching the anime only infrequently, because I can't really take it every week. (So maybe I'm just seeing the wrong episodes, though I doubt it.) But the amazing thing about it, in my opinion, is not the visuals, or the plotline, or how faithfully it adapts the manga, but the degree to which it unashamedly panders to its target audience and gets away with it. The manga was usually restrained- aside from a few key sequences, such as the big car chase in Volume 6, it wasn't something designed to get you pumped up. It was a much quieter story that aimed to fool you and challenged you to figure things out before they were revealed. But in the anime, everything is blown up to ridiculously epic proportions. The omnipresent choir in the background, the "symbolic" scenes, and the constant religious references. Misa walking around town in goth-loli attire singing creepily to herself in a bizarre combination of fake depth and exploitive imagery. And L washing Light's feet this past episode, a scene that I for one found rather tasteless. Everything about it screams "I am important! I am significant! I say things about the world that no one else has the guts to say! Pay attention to me!" The producers either don't know how corny it all looks, or they don't care because they know the fans will eat it up regardless. The new OP/ED is another case in point- the old ones weren't great, but they were enjoyable. The new stuff seems to be built around a basic theme of "Play this loud and piss off your parents". So what exactly am I trying to say here? Well, I guess my point is that Death Note is the new Evangelion- it's phenomenally popular now, when it's new. But after about five years and numerous rip-offs, people will be ragging on it as pretentious and vapid teen angst that tries to conceal its fundamental flaws with "artistry." I find it to be frankly tacky to mine an audience for cash by appealing to their own self-importance. Not to mention that it's bad marketing strategy- as soon as your market is ready to understand that they're NOT God's gift to humanity, they look at their emperor and notice that he's stark naked. Then you cease to be the next big thing and wind up being a laughingstock instead. So in the not-to-distant future when we all look back on this series and wonder why in god's name it was ever popular, I just want you all to know that I'll be smiling, a little like Light does during the big reveal, and saying "I frickin' called this." |
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IchigoK90
 Posts: 1634 Location: Scarborough, Ontario |
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I think the words you might be looking for are:
over hyped exaggerated fluffed up overly dramatic Anyways I get what you're saying but hey I think it would've been dull without all that stuff. As for Light's character I took him more as the anti/tragic hero much like Macbeth. Either way it was still an entertaining ride and I didn't waste my time on it. |
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zhir
 Posts: 353 Location: Nampa, ID, USA |
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You're acting like the major appeal of the show is light being likable. It doesn't worship him anymore than the Hannibal books worship him. He isn't an Anti-hero, he is the antagonist. The story just happens to be told from his perspective.
The enjoyment people get out of the show/manga isn't gained by worshiping Light, it's watching the chess game between Light and L/spoiler[Near]. I don't think any sane person thinks of Light as a legitimate hero after the first episode, and I very strongly doubt anyone thinks of him as a well intentioned anti-hero after he spoiler[kills Penber's wife]. The enjoyment people get out of watching Light is the same enjoyment people get out of watching Gohda in 2nd Gig and that of watching any character-study of someone driven insane with power. Last edited by zhir on Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sj21
Posts: 312 |
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WHAT!!! Okay, I get some of your points but death note is awesome and a very suspenseful. I love the way they have shinigami in it. Its very popular and ispired 3 live-action movies.
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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So you're saying that the anime is overdramatic? I'm a big fan of the anime, but I'll admit that it is overdramatic quite often like ( shown in the dub ->)spoiler[when Matsuda attempted the fake suicide.] But without stuff like that, it would be boring. The series focus is on Light( who isn't the hero, but the villian), who has an enormous God complex, so it's just that natural for the series to have a self-importance attitude. Is it overhyped and overrated? Yes. But IMO, most, if not all, popular series don't live up to hype. |
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monkeyinalamborghini
Posts: 32 |
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I don't know I started watching the show and I hated light right away in fact he's probably the opposite of shinji. I kept watching because of the who's gonna drop next factor.
As far as eva being that flawed people should just take it for what it is. I mean I see it more as a save the world type show and the funny part is a girly man has to do it. That and the show stops and explores different genres something deathnote doesn't do because the creators seem to be afraid that people would lose intrest. As far as pandering I think eva does alot to piss people off. The start of the movie freaked alot of people out ray being his mom in hindsight makes alot of scences really disgusting. Overall I think your right about deathnote it's like lost or nickleback or crack it seems like a good idea at first (although smoking crack while listening to nickleback and watching lost is awesome) in reality it's kinda gay. |
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Veoryn87
 Posts: 808 |
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To me it seems to depend on when you hear the hype. If you hear all this great hype about a series before seeing it, it will likely be disappointing (an example for me would be Evangelion, but it's not a series that I hate), but I didn't hear any of the hype for FMA or The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya till after I watched them, and I completely agree with it all. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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To BellosTheMighty:
"You know what, Dr. Jones? You're absolutely right." But that's not the point. As zhir pointed out, the appeal of the show is solely an intellectual one. Watching Light and L duke it out for justice (and bragging rights) is so ingenious and well-turned that it's enjoyable in its own right. But I think you already know that, don't you? What you're picking on is the sweeping music, self-importance of its own storytelling, and blatant use of religious symbols as surface flavor. spoiler[Yes, L washing Light's feet is almost certainly a play on the Last Supper that bears very little significance to its source material. But the scene is actually enjoyable if you dismiss it as such shallow depiction, and just pay attention to what it says about L's character, which is actually pretty interesting.] Here's the thing, though: Some people, like me, get a kick out of that. I don't take Death Note very seriously. I don't think it's very deep, in fact, I don't think it's any deeper than the average Jump show. Its premise contains far more fertile ground for debate, but the story itself dwells on the thrill of the chase, rather than making a strong point about society, so it becomes an action thriller, not a believable drama. You mentioned Evangelion, which has a similar problem. A work of art can't be considered deep or provoking unless it's saying something defined about life. Death Note and Evangelion both opt for action and ambiguity around a fascinating premise over making one solid statement and making it strong. Cowboy Bebop is really silly and out there a lot of the time, but it's definitely a "deep" show because it puts one defined view of its world and characters into every scene and drop of dialogue. (Easy come, easy go, life is but a dream...) I use it as an example because it's not what many would call a "deep show." So, there are more prevalent examples. And with that said, maybe you'll understand why melodramatic scenes like "I'll take a potato chip...and I'll EAT IT!" make the show worth it for me. The premise of the show and its characters is so far off base from being believable, heck, the most multi-layered character is the nutjob L, that the grand flourishes and angsty nature of the show is more than welcome as a satire against itself. The creators of this show knew it couldn't be taken very seriously, unless you want to make a very immoral and irresponsible statement about ambition and pride, but they also knew it wasn't a comedy. So they made it a classic "The murderer is...YOU!" style of mystery...without the mystery. All the paper-thin drama of a suspenseful whodunnit remains intact, and anyone who finds this show particularly deep has either A) Not been around the block much in terms of resounding works of art, literature, and film. Maybe they confuse evocativeness with depth, or maybe they're not secure enough in what they believe to recognize solid themes from other minds. B) Fallen in love with Light Yagami and considers him a fallen hero or a corrupt tragedy, misunderstood, but his intentions were golden. I know a few people in this thread have said that fans don't think that way...but I know a lot, personally and online. I can't say there's something wrong with them, it is fiction, but it does kind of freak me out, how much some people admire Light Yagami... To answer if Death Note is "overrated," I'd say no. It is insanely popular, and some of its fans are honestly a bit nuts, but it is a smart show, well-written, and deserving of praise. If you can't get past the anime's bizarre atmosphere, love and laud the manga, because it's just as good, if not often better. I prefer the manga, but there's something fantastic about hearing L's voice, seeing Light's eyes turn red, and corny as that music can be, spoiler[getting totally sucked in when the bells, the silence, or those roaring African chants sound the end of L and the start of a new arc this past week.] So, does that clarify anything for you about why some of us who think the show IS silly love it? |
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. When I read the Death Note manga, I thought it was different and exciting and interesting, and I sped through the volumes because I wanted to know what happened. However, the anime is such an amazing representation of everything that appeals to emo/goth subculture that it's just ridiculous. I gave up watching it once it got licensed because it was so incredibly silly as to be a waste of time.
And hearing about the hype for a series before watching it doesn't always make it a disappointment; I was hyped for Cowboy Bebop, Haruhi, and Fullmetal Alchemist, and I enjoyed all three series quite a bit. |
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zhir
Posts: 353 Location: Nampa, ID, USA |
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I agree wholeheartedly. I hope I didn't give you the idea that I don't think some people think Light is in the right. I just think those people have serious issues. While it is just fiction, people who like Light have a very strong tendency to empathize with the concept of considering yourself sufficiently superior to everyone else to justify passing judgment on them. While they might not be, as I said, insane, they do have issues. I would also like to note that, from what I had heard about the show, I expected it to be a kind of deep moral drama about Light slowly going insane due to his own rhetoric. In this I was misinformed however, as Light's megalomania takes over just after killing the biker. If that's what you want in the show, then you are going to be disappointed. However, after getting past that, you can recognize it as a wonderful drama. My favorite genre is very likely dramas that pit the hero/s against a chessmaster style antagonist. I also prefer it if the hero/s are also brilliant as opposed to the ones where they simply blunder through the antagonist's plans until the end (my favorite example being 2nd Gig). Death Note takes this idea, and introduces the brilliant twist of telling the story from the antagonist's perspective. In this way, rather than watching the hero try to figure out the his enemy's plan, you get to watch the plan in all it's glory, while wondering what the hero is going to do to stop it. A good example of this is spoiler[The FBI killings.] You get a detailed description of the seemingly perfect plan, and get to wonder how L can possible unravel it. Therefore, I am willing to say that Death Note isn't great because Light is the hero. It's great because L is the hero and because you aren't allowed to listen to his internal monologue, getting Light's instead. This is why many people think the show goes down hill when spoiler[L dies]. |
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Well despite what negative things you'll hear me say about Death Note from time to time, I actually like this series quite a bit. But really only for what was meant to be liked about it. Which personally I don't think compiles up a Masterpiece rating. Heck, I don't even think it's the best thing Shounen Jump has produced! (personally, I just think that some of Jump's best, such as Naruto, One Piece, Shaman King, ect. are as great as they are because they embraced the great shounen tradition, not ran away from it, and still were able to be as good as they are. While Death Note on the other hand seems like the only way they were able to make it a good series is by betraying everything that makes shounen such a great genre).
I don't think I could call it overrated though. Maybe not "teh greatest ting evar!!!" like most people will make you believe, but I think it's a solid enough series that it deserves at least some kind of praise. It's pretty much the same attitude I have about Naruto, if any of you have ever heard my thoughts on it's popularity. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8499 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Oh look, another anime crusader has come to deliver us from a "pretentious" and "self important" evil. This hero - nay, legend, will no doubt be sung of by the bards of the coming years as one who is like a god himself.
Bellos, Death Note is a cat-and-mouse game of wits between characters, it doesn't try to be anything else but this. Stop mistaking the imagery with pretentiousness or a try at heavy symbolism. It isn't pandering to any audience in particular, and all the accessories to it are simply to amplify the excitement in seeing people doing relatively maundane things like writing names in a notebook or eating potato chips so that it has a visual element in a visual medium. As far as seeing this for the monster that it is later on, "like Evangelion", I'm inclined to point out that the only people who rail against that particular production are the uncalled for shortwits who gnash their teeth and like to point out that perhaps Evangelion's particular choice of relgious symbolism was merely dressing, while everyone else rolls their eyes, having known that for years. Congratulations, iconoclast! |
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braves
Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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I wouldn't say that Death Note "betrayed" the Shonen Jump formula, I feel that it tried to not follow what all the other popular SJ titles do. I wouldn't like Death Note as much if they had 10 minute flashbacks that show how the main character's past was tragic, and having "notebook" and "potato chip eating" fights that last 5-10 episodes. Don't get me wrong, I love SJ titles, but it's nice to have something fresh for a change. 
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sanosuke32
Posts: 454 |
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Angry nerds fantasy, ha, maybe its your fantasy but not anybody else's. Death Note was amazing with the genius schemes that both him and L pulled off. I'll admit, it did drop spoiler[ After L died ] but it was still good.
Okay there, Light is very popular as you can see if you actually pay attention. |
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BrothersElric
Posts: 1996 |
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I'm really talking more about the moral value of shounen series. You know, the kind of heart they have or the types of messages they typically send, how it applies to everyday life, stuff like that. Instead of finding it's own unique way of incorporating all that in, it instead went against it. I think all I'm trying to say here though is that if Death Note weren't a shounen series, I'd probably like it better. Because then it wouldn't look quite as much like it's trying to be something it's not, almost like it's not even a shounen series at all. |
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