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NEWS: Bloomberg Report: NetEase Plans to Close Visions of Mana Developer Ouka Studios


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Gem-Bug



Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 1307
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 1:23 pm Reply with quote
Imagine getting laid off the day after a big game you worked on launched. Confused
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 13660
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 1:32 pm Reply with quote
That's a big bummer.
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Pandsu



Joined: 16 Sep 2017
Posts: 197
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 1:45 pm Reply with quote
Another piece of evidence that something is fundamentally broken about the current (gaming) industry. Layoffs after a single project doesn't quite live up to (often too lofty) expectations are bad enough, but doing it without even giving the product a chance to be successful is absolute madness.
And from a human perspective, this terrible as well. Who knows how much the developers might have sacrificed for this project. Who knows how much they might have crunched. How much drama there may or may not have been behind the scenes. And then that's finally coming to a close, they want to celebrate the launch, see its reception, hopefully celebrate that too. But any celebration is stopped dead in its tracks because welp, time to pack up your things and look for new employment.

a bit cringe, innit
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Chris Handsome



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 314
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 5:51 pm Reply with quote
Japanese console gaming in China is dead after Black Myth released. You're going to see alot more big budget console games from China now.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14886
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 6:35 pm Reply with quote
It's a mismatch in ambition - the Chinese think global; the Japanese think local

"Tencent, NetEase rethink Japan investments after yielding few blockbuster video games" - Chinese gaming giants are reconsidering their spending in Japanese studios amid a revival in the Chinese market, led by Black Myth: Wukong

Quote:
The previously unreported moves to cut back staff and spending in Japan follow years of investment in the world’s No. 3 gaming market, with not much to show for it. China’s two dominant game publishers sought to escape a stagnating home market by making a series of bets in Japan from 2020 onward, looking to incubate the next great entertainment hits to bring back home.

In one of the more prominent deals, Tencent in 2023 secured the rights to develop and publish the mobile edition of Bandai’s Blue Protocol, which it hoped to build into a franchise. But this week, its Japanese partner said it will end support for the game in 2025.

Shenzhen-based Tencent, the world’s biggest games distributor, has been frustrated by its interactions with Japanese developers, in part because of a mismatch in ambition between the Chinese firm and local partners, the people said. Local creators are adept at smaller-scale, lower-risk projects, whereas Tencent went to Japan in search of tentpole franchises to take global, one of the people said. Since late last year, Tencent has been setting higher goals and expectations when offering money to studios, according to the people.

"We may be approaching a point where Tencent and NetEase begin to scrutinize their returns more closely,” Bernstein analyst Robin Zhu said. "Globally, the video gaming industry has retrenched post-COVID, and many large publishers have reduced headcount or scaled back investments. Anecdotally, the Japanese developers’ desire to tightly control what can be done with their IP (intellectual property) has sometimes been a source of friction.”


Notice that J-game projects with Chinese backing launches everywhere from mobile to PC to Xbox, whereas Japanese tend to launch only on what works in Japan
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DolFun The Dolphin Vtuber



Joined: 16 Jun 2024
Posts: 37
Location: Phinland/Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Sad news to hear.
I enjoy live streaming this game on a daily basis.
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Kraz



Joined: 28 Aug 2016
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:24 pm Reply with quote
Or you can blame bloomberg for reporting something intentionally misleading, right when the game is releasing ?

Look at the negative reviews for the game on Steam, some of them specifically mention that news, thankfully it's still has a very positive global review.

The Ouka studio has been scheduled to close for a while, the original japanese bloomberg author is even surprised by the reactions of the english article:
Quote:
NetEase has been cutting staff at Ouka for a while, since this spring at least.

https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1829342570042048776

The closure of the studio has nothing to do with Visions of Mana, if it sells good enough it may motivate Square-Enix to produce a new Mana game instead of lazy remakes and mobile games, but for NetEase (and Tencent), the projects they invested into with japanese devs did not find the success they were hoping for, a single game will not change anything.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2341
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:01 pm Reply with quote
It does seem that China is realizing that Japanese studios want more control with the franchises they created rather than just giving carte blanche to external devs. Concentrating on local talent in a growing scene was probably eventually going to happen, but I raise my brow at one game (that has had a reception of "yeah, it's alright") is going to bring in some explosion of Chinese development

As for Mana, I don't think the studio closing ultimately matters as if the game does well I can see Square continuing with new entries. Hopefully it also lets them look into more of their catalog (make a new Parasite Eve, Square!)
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Pandsu



Joined: 16 Sep 2017
Posts: 197
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 10:14 pm Reply with quote
Wukong?
More like woo.. con't wait to play that game eventually, it looks kinda decent.
...
gotem
roasted
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light turner



Joined: 13 Aug 2022
Posts: 177
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 4:33 am Reply with quote
Chris Handsome wrote:
Japanese console gaming in China is dead after Black Myth released. You're going to see alot more big budget console games from China now.


I have noticed an increase in both Chinese and Korean games doing well and just plain being more interesting and fun to play. I feel like Japanese games are focusing more and more on appealing to the west which is diluting what I used to love about them. There's still some good Japanese games coming out but I find it a bit hard to get excited for much these days. Seeing the ever-increasing reliance on ports and remakes of older games (which are 99% of the time worse versions than just simply playing the original) really indicates to me how either the talent just isn't there anymore or the industry itself is struggling.

Hideaki Itsuno also recently left Capcom which I feel is a good move and I hope whatever new project he's working on is more interesting than what Capcom has been putting out.
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TheOnePieceIsReal



Joined: 06 Jul 2024
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:25 am Reply with quote
light turner wrote:
I have noticed an increase in both Chinese and Korean games doing well and just plain being more interesting and fun to play. I feel like Japanese games are focusing more and more on appealing to the west which is diluting what I used to love about them. There's still some good Japanese games coming out but I find it a bit hard to get excited for much these days. Seeing the ever-increasing reliance on ports and remakes of older games (which are 99% of the time worse versions than just simply playing the original) really indicates to me how either the talent just isn't there anymore or the industry itself is struggling.

Hideaki Itsuno also recently left Capcom which I feel is a good move and I hope whatever new project he's working on is more interesting than what Capcom has been putting out.


This is a difference of opinions but I have no idea what you mean by that comment. Compared to the 2000s the Japanese games today feel far more Japanese. Just look at Metaphor Re:Fantazio. Again, this might be a difference of opinions, but I don't see what you mean by "appealing to the west". And even then I don't see why that's a bad thing given the popularity of Japanese games in the west west nowadays.

Also I don't see why getting ports and remasters for old games is a sign that the industry is struggling. Especially since there is actually a demand for the ports and remasters. And since you've brought up Capcom the reason why they ported the Apollo Justice Trilogy was because there was an ACTUAL demand for them to port/remaster the games. Especially since it's now impossible for us to legally buy them, IE Duel Destinies and Spirit of Justice, on the 3DS with the eshop dead.

This might be me but your comment comes off as a bit melodramatic, not helped by how vague it was as well. It doesn't scream to me that you're upset that the Japanese Gaming Industry is suffering, but more of that you're upset that the Industry isn't making the types of games YOU personally want.
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Pandsu



Joined: 16 Sep 2017
Posts: 197
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:59 am Reply with quote
There was a time, during the PS3/360 era, where I also felt like Japanese games were trying a bit too hard to appeal to a western audience and that it was running the risk of ruining a lot of things for me and many others. But I think that's largely over.

Like, of course, they try to cater to a global audience in some way. But not in a way where it feels like higher-ups are trying too hard to push something of one shape, and devs who want to build that shape, into the mold of another shape that they perceive to be more popular in the west.

Things that were once seen as 'too Japanese' to bring to the west officially, now release worldwide simultaneously. And I don't think all that came at the cost of losing those uniquely Japanese things. They've simply noticed that there's an audience for that vibe outside of the target demographic.

Maybe 'the west' has shaped Japanese devs and projects a little bit, like how something like Monster Hunter was streamlined quite a bit with World, which arguably was the first game to really try and push out of its little niche it resided in before, especially in the west, but I personally don't think that's a bad thing.

If anything, the real potential problem is that games don't dare as much anymore to be niche or hidden gems. We don't really see something like a Killer 7 anymore. Or a Shadow of the Colossus. Or even a Demon's Souls before the soulslike craze. Or a Monster Hunter when that was new.
Or an MMO that doesn't follow the basic design philosophy of WoW. Or a Resident Evil without much action and without 'modern', shooter-type controls.

Though, to be fair, we got that Kunitsu-Gami game that seems very unique but nobody seems to really care about it, which might reinforce for publishers that such niche products just aren't worth the investment anymore.
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Avec ou Nous



Joined: 17 Feb 2023
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 2:30 pm Reply with quote
Pandsu wrote:
Maybe 'the west' has shaped Japanese devs and projects a little bit, like how something like Monster Hunter was streamlined quite a bit with World, which arguably was the first game to really try and push out of its little niche it resided in before, especially in the west, but I personally don't think that's a bad thing.

I felt World was too dumbed down compared to past games myself, and seeing Wilds doubling down on that kind of tapers my interest in it. Letting players change their weapons on the fly just seems like it will kill to impact of dedicating yourself to one weapon style.

I think the shift did start with the 360 and PS3 era but I disagree that it's gone away. It seems more prevalent now than ever given how many games launch with a worldwide release in mind. The days of Japanese game companies making games for Japanese audiences and then them being localized to the west later on are over. The biggest offender I think people always cite is Sony moving away from the Japanese market and killing off all their Japanese IPs.
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Stinkabod Lamé



Joined: 30 Aug 2024
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 2:53 pm Reply with quote
TheOnePieceIsReal wrote:
Also I don't see why getting ports and remasters for old games is a sign that the industry is struggling. Especially since there is actually a demand for the ports and remasters. And since you've brought up Capcom the reason why they ported the Apollo Justice Trilogy was because there was an ACTUAL demand for them to port/remaster the games. Especially since it's now impossible for us to legally buy them, IE Duel Destinies and Spirit of Justice, on the 3DS with the eshop dead.


Do people not know how to emulate? Ports and remakes are uncreative, lazy, and a mismanagement of resources that could be better used to make new games. The FF7 remake seems to have underperformed too which I can't blame since the original is a;ready great and the remake just seems wholy unnecessary and changes things for no reason. I hope Square-Enix can get their stuff together and make good games again.
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i got the shivers!



Joined: 30 Nov 2022
Posts: 114
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:13 pm Reply with quote
AiddonValentine wrote:
It does seem that China is realizing that Japanese studios want more control with the franchises they created rather than just giving carte blanche to external devs. Concentrating on local talent in a growing scene was probably eventually going to happen, but I raise my brow at one game (that has had a reception of "yeah, it's alright") is going to bring in some explosion of Chinese development


Getting the highest concurrent playerbase on Steam is a pretty big achievement. There's also Genshin Impact and other mihoyo games. China's definitely taking a large slice of the pie away from Japan these days.

Visions of Mana seemed like one of the few interesting Square Enix games though so it's a shame it got caught in the crossfire here.
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