Forum - View topicMod edit on the Fena forum thread
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3564 Location: Finland |
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This concerns the first two posts in this thread;
animenewsnetwork.com/cms/discuss/179469 (Fena: Ending Explained (or How To RUIN an Anime In One Episode)) I know I'll get flak for this, as it really doesn't concern me personally, but I could not stay silent about it, as it kept bugging me in the back of my mind... So, SenpaiDuckie decided that one word in each post was offensive/misleading and replaced them, these; Post by BaronViolet, dumb => dull
Post by Angel M Cazares, stupid => dull
What I see is it changes the very meaning the posters are trying to convey. In my books both stupid and dumb when applied in this way implicates an incompetent, illogical approach, with them changed to dull it instead conveys the feeling of boring execution and doesn't say much anything about competence. But to be sure, here's a comparison of the three from Merriam-Webster;
I don't think either word is offensive in the right context when describing things, but, if they have to be replaced, please at least use ones that don't change the very meaning? A work can be boring, but still competently done. And in the case of Fena, it was evidently more the other way around... I've messaged both BaronViolet and Angel M Cazares for their feedback on this as it's their posts. |
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5501 Location: Iscandar |
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I also think that the use of the word dull changes the meaning. But I am more concerned with ANN censoring posts to be politically correct.
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager
 Posts: 523 Location: PH |
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Thank you for this btw.
I believe at the end of the way, we are on the same side of the argument. We are all debating on context. Alright, the reason why dull was chosen is because of the following: 1. its definition: "If you describe someone or something as dull, you mean they are not interesting or exciting." found on Collins Dictionary; and 2. Upon reading BaronViolet's succeeding sentences, the focus is on the crazy adventures which were "more entertaining" as found on the article. Being entertained means also that the object, item, anime, manga holds the person's interest. In definition, interesting means "attracting your attention and making you want to learn more about something or to be involved in something : not dull or boring" found on Collins Dictionary as well. Hence, the word dull was chosen. It is the opposite of interesting. Unlike dumb: "not requiring or resulting from intelligence" Collins Dictionary; and stupid: "not intelligent : having or showing a lack of ability to learn and understand things" Collins Dictionary Finally, I believe this issue isn't about censoring in the end, but on upholding thoughtful responses found on The Rules of ANN Forums since this is more about context rather than content. The word stupid or dumb isn't banned or censored at all. This is more on the interpretation and the way that written responses are arranged. As Jack N. Wismer (32-36) said, in written communication, a message includes two elements: the content and feeling. Each word also gives/describes the behavior of the message, whether positive or negative.
If you happen to look at the link, the word stupid can be categorized as shaming, which I believe the intention for your posts is not it. Both posts end up with the positive note, as I believe all of us that are engaged on this thread share the same side -- that Fena was and/or will be "the more other way around". Hence I shall emphasize the word small edit as I have written on both posts. More than 80% of the content was also not touched. Lastly, don't worry, I shall not flak anyone here on this thread. This is a conversation on an issue that may lean more on possible miscommunication. |
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Zerreth
 Posts: 210 Location: E6 |
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No horse in this fight, but going through the thread in question, replies now seem to be under the impression that the posts used much stronger language than they actually did, to the extent it would be considered rule breaking, such as using slurs because that's what is often expected when moderation is executed.
In general, I've seen people who have argued in bad faith, concern trolled, and toed the line with the forum rules and those people have been addressed appropriately. Are we to expect that we should now be expecting mods to be combing through threads adjusting/cleaning up our language? Because that seems dumb, and feels like overstepping. For something like language adjustments, I would've assumed that the first step would be to PM the users in question considering what they have posted isn't offensive. A nudge seems more appropriate over an intervention. The posts in question aren't short quips with no context so I can understand the idea to change it, but they're not your posts. Whether proactively or not, those were the words chosen with their perceived implications/intensity. In the same vein where it sounds like I'm putting words in their mouth (I'm not), those edits feel the same way. |
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager
Posts: 523 Location: PH |
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@Zerreth
Yes, I believe intensity is what we were ultimately debating about and that's why I appreciate your feedback indeed, that it is better for a nudge or PM first. I believe this will also lessen the miscommunication for future posts. Following up this discussion, I believe this is best to share this -- that the important factor that made me moderate the posts was the cultural difference. From where I live, the words 'stupid' and 'dumb' are frowned upon. For us, 'stupid' would equal to r-word and all the negative that comes with it. Dumb, on the other hand, is borderline r-word. It is more hurtful if we happen to say it in our native language. It is considered as a profanity, a very explicit word. Hence, the moderation happened. I hope this somehow enlightens everyone that under all of these written discussions, there is an underlying factor that is unseen and not discussed. I hope this will give everyone a better view on where I, as an individual and a moderator, come from. Last edited by SenpaiDuckie on Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:17 am; edited 2 times in total |
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NeedMoreCats
 Subscriber Posts: 333 Location: Westchester, NY |
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I first thought that the moderated word was “retarded” which is generally frowned upon these days so I could be on board for that. However, this thread says that the moderated words were “stupid” and “dumb”.
To me, this feels like overstepping. The ANN forums are littered with “dumb” and “stupid” all over the place for years. I feel that it’s not up to a single moderator to ban those words in a single thread for personal preference. I think that becomes censorship, which cannot be supported. I do feel strongly that Lynzee or Chris really needs to weigh in here. |
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Blanchimont
Posts: 3564 Location: Finland |
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@SenpaiDuckie
After reading your post I sort of understand your motivation for changing them. Though I still disagree that they're offensive when used as an adjective to describe inanimate/impersonal things. But that does little to change the fact that 'dull' is definitely the wrong word to use as replacement as it changes the meaning/tone of what the writers intended. For example, using a word like 'ridiculous' or 'brainless' or 'nonsensical' would have preserved the tone of the first post, ie;
And in the second post, a word like 'illogical' or 'awkward' or 'foolish' would have worked a lot better to preserve the meaning, ie;
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager
Posts: 523 Location: PH |
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Once again, the words stupid and dumb are not banned, as stated on the first post I did on this thread. Secondly, it wasn't because of personal preference that I moderated it. This is a culture clash in language.
As Jones and Hubert said, "culture defines language, and language is shaped by culture. Language is a symbol of cultural and personal identity. Language is the medium by which culture is transmitted from generation." There are words that will 'sound' or be perceived different to others. Hence, my explanation above. In the end, that's why I believe Zerreth's suggestion is a great one. This will lessen the chance of another clash on words, especially as it is already apparent, that English is not my first language, but second. Other than that, I am currently learning other languages as well. And for Blanchimont, thank you for understanding. I believe we have come to a common ground. The suggested words are definitely great. I'll get to work on this and PM Baron and Angel M Cazares.
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NeedMoreCats
Subscriber Posts: 333 Location: Westchester, NY |
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I guess I don’t understand what’s going on here, then. Or perhaps I have a different definition of personal preference. Either “stupid” and “dumb” are allowed at ANN, or they’re not. They can’t be allowed in most forums, but disallowed in forums where you are the moderator. If, as you say, they are not banned, then, again, it feels like overstepping for you to replace them. You edited someone’s words, replacing them with a word that changes the meaning. I can’t stress enough how strongly I think this is a bad idea, and very dangerous. I’ve never seen that kind of edit here in these forums. I’ve seen mods edit out words that ANN has determined are slurs, vulgarity, etc., and will not be permitted but I’ve never seen a single mod edit out common words like this. Also, like others have noted, there’s a difference between calling a person stupid, and calling an inanimate thing like a plot line stupid. I’ll say again that it feels like a kind of censorship to me, and it scares me because it’s a very slippery slope. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6583 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I think it's time to let this go. We've taken on board what has been said here, so let's show some trust and see how we go moving forward.
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager
Posts: 523 Location: PH |
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Quick follow-up on this matter:
Done PM'ing both Baron and Angel (since yesterday and waited for their replies) and with a good note, we are moving forward. |
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