Forum - View topicMononoke.
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Aromatic Grass
 Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Since we don't have one yet, I thought I'd grace the forums with a Mononoke thread. Forgive me. It's been a while since I've started a thread.
So, just recently I watched the Bakeneko arc of Ayakashi, and Mononoke continues the story of the Medicine Seller and these evil spirits called, well, "Mononoke." I haven't seen any more of Ayakashi, so I can't say much, but I absolutely loved the Bakeneko arc! The Medicine Seller is freaking awesome! Moving on, the first thing I noticed about Mononoke is its amazing visuals and animation style. I'm not exactly sure how this was done (and maybe HellKorn or someone else can enlighten me), but it has a unique appearance. I've only watched two episodes so far -- those two, along with the three from Bakeneko, really got me excited about this series. It's just as exciting as Ghost Hound! 
As I understand it, these Mononoke spoiler[merge with strong negative human emotions and are turned into some kind of demon. The Medicine Seller must find "katachi" (shape [of the demon]), "makoto" (truth), and "kotowari" (reason/regret) before he can draw his sword and slay the demon]. The stories behind these spirits and the characters they haunt are the reasons I feel this series is going to be addicting for me. Also, in a preview of episode three, I noticed spoiler[the servant girl named Kayo from Bakeneko is back]! 
[EDIT: This thread has been added to the All Discussions index. -TK] |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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I REALLY should have made this thread earlier. Mononoke is as underappreciated as gems such as Mind Game and Pale Cocoon, and easily ranks up there with the sheer genius and the fact that it isn't even remotely like any other anime ever created.
I do not exaggerate at all. Andrew Cunningham perhaps summed it up best in AoD's Mononoke thread:
And that's what Mononoke -- and by extension the Bakeneko, or Goblin Cat (as Geneon USA has titled it) arc of Ayakashi ~ Samurai Horror Tales -- really is. An animated kaiga with kabuki actors, with the added bonus of some of, if not the greatest "camera work" that anime has ever seen. Again, I do not exaggerate in the slightest. For those who are jaded of the general tripe produced, who want something so far beyond even experimental that it becomes a genre all its own, you have to watch Mononoke. (Yes, Zalis, in spite of the fact that it was subbed by THAT GROUP, this includes you too.) And of course I cannot neglect the always awesome AniPages for reviewing nine of twelve episodes of the series. (Of course it will probably only interest Cloe and the like should they be reading this thread, but I do encourage others to read it!)
I love you for it.
The other two arcs were pedestrian, though the Yotsuya one was mildly amusing toward the end after the story ended and went into a history about the historically famous tale. But Bakeneko is the real gem, and aside from Mushi-shi carrying over it's easily the best anime "series" from 2006. I've already seen it three times and it never fails to blow me away -- some of the most goddamn great direction ever witnessed in anime, and the final episode is so emotionally powerful. And yes, the Medicine Seller is the definitive bad-ass. Very cool.
Yeah, like I said, it's like an animated kaiga. The editing allows for some very precise glimpses of the reactions and movements by the characters; it also allows some clever moments of suspense to build up. And when the characters are actually moving... god, that's a whole 'nother matter. While it isn't up at the plateau that Mushi-shi has created, or even what Denno Coil or Ghost Hound has done, Mononoke has AMAZING animation. Incredibly fluid and filled with detail. It might go unnoticed by most viewers' eyes for much of the time, but it becomes very obvious such as when the Medicine Seller transforms and takes on the mononoke -- absolutely stunning. It's also where the aforementioned "camera work" comes in, with the perspective and angles constantly shifting as if they were literally rotating around the battle scene. There's also similar moments, such as in episode one, when spoiler[the assassin is suddenly killed and he is flailing around the ceiling.] I've noticed that the style is compared to Gankutsuou, but that comparison doesn't Mononoke justice. Rather than just place some frequently awkward designs that essentially don't move on top of the characters, this effects the entire scenery. Some specific examples: Zashiki-warashi, Part 01, Episode 01 1 2 Umibozu, Part 02, Episode 04 1 2 Nue, Part 01, Episode 08 1 2 (The last picture is caught in motion, so if it seems a bit blurry then know it's to be expected.) As a somewhat related aside, the music also fully compliments the production values. While the opening and ending themes are forgettable, the score is phenomenal with hunting, traditional themes playing one minute and then the next with an orchestral score that has your heart beating hard enough to escape your chest, only to conclude with mournful, somber number as the hardships that these characters must come to grips with comes to light.
I'm not an animator and have no experience and little knowledge regarding it, so any technical explanation would just be something pulled out of my ass. However, I do believe that certain scenes -- such as the rushing close-up when the "camera" is going wild -- is where we see the characters fully integrated with their surroundings. There isn't a "background," per se, to speak of. It also is evident in still scenes because there's an obvious "paper" feel to the show -- again the kaiga aspect appears because it seems as though it were painted then shot.
It only gets better.
What really impresses me is how well-researched and carefully plotted every story is. There's a multitude of references to Japanese lore, some of which would even escape some of the target audience of the show (never mind ignorant foreigners like myself). The first arc, Zashiki-warashi, for instance, doesn't perform a take on the modernized version of the mythology, but rather one of older times.
Heh. spoiler[Yeah, she is a part of the Umibozu, as well the modern version of the Bakeneko arcs.] I really hope that this gets some more attention around these parts. It went largely unnoticed by AoD though was given some attention another forum or two, but nothing here. Eventually, though, Westlo looked into it and I'm guessing after my praising for it you and samurai-with-glasses checked it out as well. (And while I don't know if he'll show up here, Kagemusha really digs what he has seen too.) Really, my only disappointment about the show is that the ending of the last arc (the modern Bakeneko arc) feels contrary to the tone of the rest of the show, so instead of ending up as my favorite anime ever it remains as one of my all-time favorites. But aside from that it's sheer brilliance and fun all the way through. My favorite arc is the third one, Nopperabou, because it is practically everything that I could ever want in an anime: unique art, consistently fantastic animation, effective musical score, superb direction, thoughtful cinematography, sympathetic and human characters, and a complex yet incredibly emotional story that really speaks truths about human nature. All done in just two episodes. And I LOVE the ending to the arc. If it hasn't become obvious by now, I'm absolutely in love with Mononoke. It's one of those special works of art that is most painfully neglected, overlooked because it doesn't conform the notions of what anime is -- if anything, it is the anti-thesis of anime. While not suitable for everyone's tastes, those seeking a title outside the box can do no better than this. It's a genuinely incredible experience, and I can only hope that more folks around ANN will seek it out. |
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Maken Buster
 Posts: 104 |
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Wow, that's a hard post to follow...
Anyways, I'm glad to see Mononoke gettin' some love. Although I've only seen the first episode (and have no experience Ayakashi), visually, it's one of the most original and brilliant shows I've seen in...well, ever! It's like watching a woodblock printing come to life with vivid color. The tone and mood it sets is very foreboding and the use of weird sounds is very well done. I'm really looking forward to watching more. |
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Samurai-with-glasses
 Posts: 628 |
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HellKorn's right. I did check it out based on his recommendations.
Thanks a lot for that by the way! 
My reaction was, to put it simply, "Oh My!" It's a very interesting piece of art. The execution of the story is like a mixture between traditional Japanese theater (I do not recall the names, but they're noted, at least to Westerners, as being completely stylized to the point of having no "rational" logic behind the story) and the mystery. The art is even more amazing -- in fact, I highly suggests anyone who finds Gankutsuou's style to be interesting to check this one out: it's Gankutsuou on a psychedelic acid trip mixing -- again -- traditional Japanese art with 20th century surrealism. And once you cross the boundaries of verisimilitude you'll find the Medicine Seller to actually be pretty deliciously handsome in his own colorful way. 
The arcs vary widely and make for a fresh viewing throughout. I don't feel repetitive after each arc since they are all so different from another. I actually like the ending of the new Bakeneko arc though: it felt...conclusive. And kind. Like it's saying to the audience to comfortably move on. I thought that after spoiler[all the blood and blindness and suffering (even on comic relief girl! (love her by the way), oh my!) that the characters whose guilt essentially came down to apathy would, well, die. And they didn't. It made me feel good: like the punishment was just, rather than indiscriminately cruel.] And the best thing is, despite the extremely stylized execution and plot, I find that it's not trying to cover any shallowness while doing so. Some of the central questions behind each arc are rather powerful -- and hard to answer. For example [and this is a pretty big spoiler, so I suggest not revealing it unless you already watched the show: curiosity makes a cat a bakeneko remember!]: spoiler[The Zashiki Warashi arc portrays a woman's love for her child...and other children. Was she doing the right thing when she essentially offered herself and her child as "sacrifice" so the Zashiki Warashi can be born? Is that kind of "love all humans but thyself" action (apparently thwarted by the Medicine Seller fortunately) a good action, a right one? The "fancy boat" arc (for lack of a better term) is even deeper and more complex: facing one's worst fears; future hopes are fear (comic relief girl)? The monk's confession: he claims his crime was incestuous feeling, and one which "oppressed him." The truth is that he did not feel it, but his sister was the one who did, and confessed to him as she went off to die. Why did he claim to be guilty of incestuous feelings when his guilt was apathy? Which one is "worse," especially for us who as a society completely despises incest? Etc.] The show did not offer conclusive answers to these dilemmas, but that's only making it better, instead of, well, pedantic. |
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Aromatic Grass
Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Gah, that's one hella long post. But, yes, even though I had already heard of Mononoke, it was your and Westlo's influence that got me watching. Thank you.
That's a very interesting theory. I wouldn't beg to differ at all. Though animated kaiga and kabuki is a great way to explain it. Oh, and it's really hard to exaggerate when it comes to the artwork here, I can attest to that.
Thank goodness I watched the best part. Though I usually like to save the best for last, I'm still going to finish Ayakashi. I just had to see the introduction of the Medicine Seller. It's really hard to describe the direction and emotional impact without using the word "powerful"! Those two things instantly made me fall in love with only a few episodes worth of animated goodness.
I love those scenes when it appears the movement comes from flipping the pages of a book. Then there are other scenes that get you with just the rotation of the camera. "Guru guru guru guru guru..."
When I looked up the animation studio, I was surprised to find Toei. I was expecting some unknown studio or maybe 4°C. Just thinking of Toei's major works and then Mononoke... weird. All that matters in the end is the great product, right? The Medicine Seller's transformation has a monkey-like appearance (like his sword), which I forgot to mention looks incredible. And so does the animation and camera work, like you said. I noticed the "rotating battle scene" effect, which really made those specific scenes all the more exciting and intense.
That was... a beautiful way to describe it! Gah, I can't believe I forgot to mention the music in my opening post. The theme songs are okay (the OP kinda makes me chuckle), but the BGM... oh my goodness. Classically haunting yet melancholic stuff. I'm going to look up the artist. Yasuharu Takanashi? What an interesting list of titles. I thought the music of a certain specific title on that list sounded too fancy. 
This is something I was wondering. I'm not familiar with most Japanese folktales. However, Mononoke's got me interested. This is what more people could be doing with animation and folklore.
Shh! That's what I was thinking. >;3 You have some really good insight there, SWG. The show doesn't feel repetitive; it's conclusive or not conclusive when it wants to be, yet not shallow at all; and the spoiler[the punishments are just, not cruel]. (Great wording on that last one!)
I hope my thread helps out at least in this aspect. I know I have yet to see all of the series, but I'm all the more excited now. Mononoke is really nothing like I expected at all. Actually, it surpasses all of my expectations. |
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LolItsGriff
Posts: 10 Location: Maine |
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I adored Mononoke, Simply because the kind of messages it's episodes and stories Displayed. Each Arc had a moral to it, and a simple message in the end. Add the amazing Direction and Artwork, Medicine Seller, and spoiler[The Man In Gold] and you get the masterpiece that is Mononoke.
I'm really happy someone else has heard of this anime! The second I saw the art I decided on watching it. I recommend it to anyone. It does take some getting used to though, as sometimes, the transitions aren't completely smooth- whether or not that was on purpose, I don't know, but I tended to get seasick while watching the first few episodes. In my opinion, Mononoke is even better than Mushi-Shi. When you think about it, they both are actually really similar though... Amd as to what HellKorn said about the OP and ED- Sure, they aren't up to par with Mushi-Shi's OP or TMO Haruhi Suzumiya's ED (or it's full dance), I think they are very fine examples of how to make a good OP and ED that corresponds with the animation in the background. The last thing I'd like to address is the fact that all of the ends are tied up by the end of an arc. Though, some problems might be unsolved, even when the Medicine Seller manages to exorcize the Mononoke, You get the feeling that the Medicine Seller doesn't directly involve himself in the affairs of other people. He simply accomplishes his task and that is enough. tl;dr summary: Watch Mononoke. (and a random note, after seeing the first episode I decided on cosplaying Medicine Seller. Seriously- after the first episode. He is really awesome.) |
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Aromatic Grass
Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Wow, I feel so far behind. The series is already over, and most people who care about Mononoke have already seen it. If I had just watched it originally and started this thread earlier, a discussion-by-episode thread wouldn't sound so strange. (Of course, I'm really the only one doing it by the episode.) Unless some others decide to join me and start watching it...?
Yay for my viewing episodes three and four! At first, I wasn't sure if I wanted the Medicine Seller to spoiler[be the one that moved the magnet. I know he really wasn't the one, and it was the monk Gankei, but he just seemed to cool and creepy at the end of episode three!] In episode four, spoiler[each person on the ship was asked what they fear most. I expected at least one of them to "die," and I'm kinda glad it was the samurai. He didn't really interest me much. If the minstrel was lying about being afraid of pastries, why didn't he die? Was he not lying?] All I know is that I wouldn't have known what to say in that position! Can't wait to see what happens in episode five~. The sea was animated nicely here. HellKorn presented an example above under Umibozu (#2). Nice! What is it that's keeping this series from being mainstream, or at least more popular? 
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CorrosiveMeso
 Posts: 58 |
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Thanks for making this thread. I really hope that more people watch this series.
Well, I can't say much more about the series than HellKorn did. Although I was a little disappointed with the ending, it's still one of my favorite anime. I really like the art style, and I loved all the little animation tricks such as the snow in the Nue arc. Nopperabou is my favorite arc as well, not to say that I didn't enjoy the rest. I also agree that the music is great. Mononoke's OP and ED were okay, but I preferred the Ayakashi opening because I felt it matched the animation better and also because I never expected a song like Heat Island to fit any anime, let alone Bakeneko. I also wish it were more popular, and I only know one person personally who's watched any of it. Also, I was hoping that if Bakeneko/Goblin Cat sold well enough, Geneon would license Mononoke, but that's not possible anymore. At least the first DVD sold well in Japan, as far as I know, so maybe that would increase its chances of being licensed. |
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Samurai-with-glasses
Posts: 628 |
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Thanks. Sometimes when I see highly stylized "high art" I find that they are merely trying to be "deep" or "meaningful" without actually being so. So it really is a great thing that Mononoke's strength as a show is not just in the style and execution, but also in the story. I think the spoiler[transformed version of the Medicine Seller] looks more like the Count from Gankutsuou though. I mean, that beard is uncanny! It's like some daring artist carved the Count's likeness into a wall, styling it with an Egyptian flavor, and that likeness came to life. As for you questions in the spoilers: spoiler[I suspect the Medicine Seller was enjoying it to an extend. He seemed to have at least a grasp of what's really going on: something the audience and other characters will not learn until episode 5, which concludes this arc brilliantly. Although in episode 4, the samurai didn't actually really die. He felt he was killed, yes, but it's all an illusion. I suspect the minstrel wasn't entirely lying though. Whatever was in that pastry, I don't want to know.
The monk's reason for directing the ship to the sea would be revealed in episode 5...in a double conclusion! It's like a Conan mystery: somebody said something amazing, and we thought we now know everything about the case, and then something unexpected is suddenly revealed! Why, the monk's true self didn't look half-bad, if kinda effeminate.]
Yeah, the one thing that surprised me is that Mononoke seemed to be rather well-received in Japan. Perhaps it has crossover appeal beyond the otaku market? Since, as prejudiced as this may sound, I don't really see an average Japanese otaku getting particularly giddy about a show as different as this one. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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Mononoke aired in the Noitamina time slot which generally averages a rating of 3-5% from what I have seen which is superior to the majority of late night anime that is popular via fan subs.
Quoting a post made by Andrew Cunningham on AnimeOnDVDs forums
These shows also tend to sell very well, here's some examples Nodame Cantabile *8,325 (8) (J.C.Staff) Mononoke (Toei Animation) 2007/10/26 13,222 Vol. 1 "Zashiki Warashi" (Two episodes) Honey and Clover II (Hachimitsu to Clover II) *6,110 (4) (J.C.Staff/Viz Media) Honey and Clover (Hachimitsu to Clover) 10,774 (9) (J.C.Staff/Viz Media)
There's another group who have subbed up to episode 10. |
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Aromatic Grass
Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Oh, I didn't mean he literally looked like a monkey; I was just reminded of one by the way he moves. Speaking of monkeys, though, I love that little head's scratchy voice. Weird. Anyway, I agree that an Egyptian-flavored Count of Monte Cristo is a good comparison.
Gah, I should've waited until I watched episode five before I said that spoiler[the samurai died. Must've misunderstood when they mentioned an illusion]. The conclusion of Umibozu made me feel sad because it was just that -- sad. (Not that the others weren't or anything.) The monk's spoiler[true appearance] was quite a surprise, I have to admit. I guess I'm moving on to Nopperabou now! 
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Thewalkindude368
Posts: 41 |
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I've only seen the two episodes with the pregnant girl and the inn, but this series is so beautiful and enchanting. The art is like a woodcut come to life, and the story managed to be ridiculously engaging. It does what all good shows should do:Leave you wanting more.
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Jedi General
 Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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I've been on the fence as to whether or not I'd watch this series, and this thread as sealed the deal. I'm definitely going to watch this one. One question though: Does this require one to have seen the "Bakeneko" arc of Ayakashi? Since that arc is only three episodes it shouldn't be a problem. I don't plan on watching the rest of Ayakashi though since the first arc was only barely above average at best and I haven't heard great things about the second arc either.
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Wow, so much epic praise for this series! After reading all of this, how could I possibly not watch this series now?
Well, after having read this thread out of interest, I now officially have 3 episodes downloaded, 3 more still downloading as we speak, and more so to download in the future. Haven't checked any of them out yet though, probably because I'm waiting for them all to download or something. But JG does bring up an interesting point though, do I need to have any previous viewing of this Bakeneko arc in Ayakashi? It'd be nice to know so, especially considering I was just about to jump right into it without having noticed that! It'd probably also be a good idea to know if I have to hold back on those episodes for a little bit or if I can go ahead and watch them now. And which exact episodes are the Bakeneko arc episodes in the first place? I think I'm with JG here, based on what I've heard I don't think I'm at all willing to watch the whole series, although watching that arc may very well change my mind, I guess we'll see. Just taking precautions is all. But yes, this series is definitely one I'm going to check out for sure! |
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Jedi General
Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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That would be the final three episodes. Episodes 9 thru 11, to be precise. |
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