Forum - View topicNEWS: Mainstream Moe Raises Artist's Ire
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hkrok76
 Posts: 118 |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikkikomori Moe is character obsession. Generally referring to cute things. Japan has always liked cute things. Look up the Tokyo fire department and police department. Look at their mascots. You would think they were for kids visiting the site, but it's the overall mascot for their respective institutions. If you've ever had a burning obsession with a character, you've stepped foot into the realm of moe. If you haven't, that's fine too. Different strokes for different folks. Learn the different meanings for the words you use, and shut up about whether a person is "mentally disturbed" when they have different taste then you. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10425 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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No, that doesn't make her a hypocrite. First off, she refers to herself as "reformed." Which means she has changed, this may mean that she doesn't even approve of the type of porn manga she made. Secondly, her complaint is (partially) about people who become sexually aroused by non-sexual images of children. Regardless of whether or not that is right/wrong/sick/normal/etc... it is very different from people who get sexually aroused by looking at sexually explicit pictures of mature people. You can easilly be a supporter of one and think the other is unacceptably deviant. I myself have a libertarian point of view on the subject. While I find moe-fetich (the sexualisation of moe) to be disturbing, I think that people should be allowed to create and look at whatever they want, in whatever manner they want, provided no child is directly hurt by the process. Yes, I know someone will say "but child-porn leads to child abuse," but if that's true then "porn leads to rape," "action movies lead to murder" and "horror movie lead to cults" would all be just as true. Each is, actually somewhat true, but they're only half the equation, you also need to add in a severely unbalanced person. And I don't think it is appropriate to limit the options of the majority, due to the possible reactions of the mentally unbalanced. The reason that some people want this material to be outlawed has more to do with revulsion, than logic. What's more, moe isn't even necessarily sexual. Most moe has no overt sexual references (although covert references are often to be found, added for no reason other than to pander to those who sexualise moe) and can be enjoyed by an adult (male or female) without them thinking the least thing about sex. -t Last edited by Tempest on Mon May 15, 2006 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10425 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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You can get married at 12 in the USA. In fact, some states have no minimum age whatsoever. http://www.coolnurse.com/marriage_laws.htm http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm (Cornell's table is actually out of date, Kansas recently increased their minimum age to 15) |
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hooliganj
 Posts: 113 Location: Longhorn Central |
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This is actually my original point - if the art has absolutely no connection to reality, then you shouldn't be aroused by it, and if it does, then what it represents is child porn. Psychologically, loli-hentai is a no-win proposition - you're either a pervert for being aroused by children, or a deviant for being aroused by an abstract symbol. |
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Ongaku_no_tenshi
 Posts: 209 Location: Virginia |
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Tempest, you just reminded me that the state of the U.S. is not all that much different from that of Japan. I mean sure, here in the U.S. we have to deal with the ever-present policing force that is religion that tighly restricts and dictates what we should and shouldn't think to the point that laws are even made based on the overbearing whims of (sometimes obnoxious and pushy) religous groups. And sure, you can walk into a public place in Japan and openly buy (used?) panties from a vending machine. That aside, fundamentally, both the United States and Japan are dealing with the same issues. Even before things like moe, lolicon, and shotacon became as popular as they are in today's anime scene. The problem is just more out in the open in Japan due to their lax government. Last edited by Ongaku_no_tenshi on Mon May 15, 2006 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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tempest, I agree with your points, but I wonder is this your accurate thought or a typo?
If that's your comment, it seems to be comparing apples to oranges and is COMPLETELY the realm of deviant behavior of an individual vs anything ANYONE can really do aside from remove ALL media. If the problem is the sexual arousal of an individual by something TOTALLY not intended as sexual (like say the child girl character in Detective Conan) then that is solely a mental imbalance of the viewer. The show is NOT targetted to adults, the character is NOT intended to be viewed "sexually" and the material in NO WAY presents a "sexual" image. OTOH, if the problem is sexual portrayals of a character who was not intended to be portrayed that way (say, doujinshi of the same character doing something pornographic) then that is a problem of the producer. I don't think Ms. Sakamoto was making some sort of commentary on the sect getting off to broadcast run episodes of Conan or Doraemon or something similar. Her problem seemed to be more with "competing" products that DO feature or promote sexually explicit images, but admittedly I found her true point to be "vague" enough to not be certain of that. Either way, I think it's ludicrous and pointless to take exception to that EXTREME miniscule percentage that somehow get aroused to NON-porn and somehow use that as reason to rant against "unacceptable" porn. |
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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I agree with you 100% here.
Even if moe isn't sexual, it does represent a very strange behavior. Why is such a large percentage of anime devoted to prepubescent characters? It would not be made if there wasn't an audience for it. I think Sakamoto makes a very good point when she says ""This fetish you call 'moe' is a pedophiliac fetish and is nothing more than perversion." At least in looking at the Engish translation, the use of the word perversion does not necessarily mean something sexual, just a fixation. It just so happens that often this fixation is sexual in nature for a great number of fans. Lots of people can enjoy Cardcaptor Sakura which represents a more innocent moe show. It takes a specific type of person to enjoy moe programs with constant panty shots. The sexualization of a young character should be enough to make a nonpedophile have reservations about the content of the show and yet certain people revel in these shows. I think she makes an interesting point in talking about the 'otaku boom.' Only a few years ago, non-Japanese people have been critisized for using the word 'otaku' incorrectly, even sometimes as some sort of badge to geekdom. Sakamoto correctly points out that the success of Densha Otoko means its becoming cool to be considered an otaku in Japan too. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10425 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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No, no typo. She' complaining (partially) about people who get off on moe, most of which is non-sexual in nature, and features children. My point was that moe and hentai are apples and oranges, and that she is not a hypocrite for producing one and complaining about the other. -t |
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[Bond]
 Posts: 12 |
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You can't really call a loliphile a pedophile because drawings aren't children. That's pedantic, but I don't care.
Also: I know this is a kneejerk reaction by most people but I blame it on the lack of introspection on their part. This kind of thing is only wrong because it is "wrong". On the whole, loliphilia is a fairly innocuous fetish. Many loliphiles I've spoken with aren't even aroused by the idea of being *with* the loli, they're aroused at the idea of *being* a loli. I think it's related to some sort of power/domination, age regression or macrophilia fetish. It'd be interesting to do some studies but basically impossible. Even if you found willing participants, there's no way to be sure they would reveal truths to you. That being said, I'm not pretending that there aren't people who are aroused at the idea of intimate relations with a loli. Sexuality is an incredibly complex/delicate/hilarious thing. People can, and have, sexualized anything. There are many, many more disturbing (to most) things out there. Trust me on this my friends. Above all, remember, you can't spell lolicon without lol. |
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Jermhatespants
 Posts: 25 |
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Uh no, it was originally meant as honorific equivalent to "vous" in French. It literally translated to "your honorable house[hold]." Later on, it came to mean a fanatic/geek. It may have once meant someone into loli (ref: Tsutomu Miyazaki) but this was not its original meaning. And its meaning has been sanitized. Deal with it. It's kind of like how some blacks use the word "[slur]" as a badge of pride. Sure, others may be offended or puzzled by it, but it's not their place to be language police. And moe is different than loli, plain and simple. While moe can be loli, it isn't by definition loli. |
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Jermhatespants
Posts: 25 |
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Not joking? So you honestly think mainstream, legal adult porn and loli porn are linked? WTF? And I have a feeling we'd have a bunch of pedos in this country with or without the aid of porn. They are sick in the head without outside help. Let's put it this way: Have you seen porn? If so, by your logic, you'll soon be a pedo. Even if you see loli porn, it won't make you pedo because I will assume you aren't sick in the head. While adult porn may be degrading to men and women, it doesn't lead to loli porn, plain and simple. |
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[Bond]
Posts: 12 |
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Dangerous words. Neurotypicality doesn't exist. |
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beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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I read it more as a fan who is complaining about other fans ruining "her" fandom and giving it a bad name. It doesn't matter if she works professionally in it or not, that's the impression that she gives.
And as I stated in the journal of someone else who pointed the article out to me: Unfortunately, it's a kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". As long as fandoms remain on the fringe, they will attract fringe people, including the loli's, the shota's and the more extreme furries. But if it becomes popular, then we end up with wannabe's who are only in it for because they can be different like all their friends. I just end up rolling my eyes when things like this come up because how much people end up showing their predjudices and use something like this to further them. |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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um yes I can there depictions of children. but as to real children vs drawn children Id rather have the pedo's going for the drawn children. |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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You really should amend your statement to include the words "with parental consent"; the waiver which was if the bride is pregnant in some states (so the guy can avoid the statutory rape charges if the girl is not of legal age); and required court permission in some states, otherwise you will be giving people the wrong impression of marriage in the US. Last edited by hikaru004 on Mon May 15, 2006 7:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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