Forum - View topicWhat is Anime?
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10455 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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A discussion I just had with Cesar Soriano of USA today brought up an old topic, and I decided to bring it up here to see what people thought.
What is Anime? Is it 1) Japanese Animation or 2) A submedium of Animation originating in, and dominated by animation from Japan. There are two importing things to realize if you accept definition #2. It allows for foreign (non Japanese) works to actually be Anime, and it also allows for some Japanese works to not be Anime. The topic that brought this up was Mt. Head, Soriano asked if it was Anime. I said, roughly, "Yes, but I've seen it described as alternative, non-anime, Japanese Animation." I have 2 problems with definition #1. First off, is the theoretical question of, "What if Bubblegum Crisis had been created (Written, animated and all) by a bunch of Australians in a studio in Australia, but had turned out 100% identical to what was actually created. It would then not be Anime. I guess I just prefer to define Anime in some way related to teh product itself, rather than the circumstances in which it was created (some would call thsi prejudice, judging/labelling something not on it's qualities, but on it's origin). The second problem is a gray area, what about Animation that is co-produced between Japan and another country, ie: Reign, Transformers, etc... Of course, definition #2 leaves an even bigger gray area. If Anime is a definition based on the product, not it's origin, what are the guidelines by which we would decide if something was Anime or not? Some amateur productions that mimick Anime have been very careful not to call their products Anime (or Manga). Fred Gallagher for example does not call Megatokyo Manga, and Pseudome Studio named itself such in order to state that their creation is "Pseudo Anime." From a practical point of view, because of the very subjective gray areas involved with definition #2, definition #1 is clearly easier to go with. But from a philosophical point of view, I find definition #2 more appealing. |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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Don't Japanese folks use the term "anime" to refer to all animation, including Western animation?
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tobalt
 Posts: 8 Location: Los Angeles |
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Anime...surrounds us...it binds us...it's flows through us...it's in this post, in your AIM window, and even in your wallet.. Yes... especially in your wallet. Anime loves to be in your wallet.... :p
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10455 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Yeah, they do. But I'm talking about in English, we already have a word that is teh equivalent of their "anime;" it's animation. -t |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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So what are we trying to figure out? How to pigeonhole animation? Who cares?
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bee
 Posts: 24 Location: Nihon & Zhonguo |
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By Japan For Japan
Corporate HQ is Japanese & Primary audience is Japanese |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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Sez who? If we aren't going to use the japanese definition of the word, how and why do we come up with a definitive and absolute definition? Sounds like an exercise in obsessive compulsion to me.
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bee
Posts: 24 Location: Nihon & Zhonguo |
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The Japanese definition should only be valid in Japan in Japanese discussions. American discussions of anime should use the American definition.
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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What american definition? Tempest's point, as I read it, is that there isn't one-not just one, anyway. It's a word with multiple possible meanings.
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bee
Posts: 24 Location: Nihon & Zhonguo |
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American definition is individually determined by Americans
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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Personally, I consider all animation from Japan to be anime, so I would go with the first option. Something produced in a foreign country, for instance the hypothetical example of Bubblegum Crisis if it were an Australian show, would be recognized by me as an Australian show with anime influences or in a style similar to anime.
As for shows produced jointly between Japan and another country, that would be kind of a case-by-case basis. For instance, a show produced jointly in America and Japan. Was it produced primarily for the Japanese audience? Maybe they had an American audience in mind as well, but was it made specifically for that American audience, or was it intended mainly for Japan? How much was done by each side? IE, did Japan do most of the work while America did most of the financing (as is often the case)? And there are other things to consider as well. It's really a gray area and I can't come up with exact guidelines for something like that, it's more something I decide for each show based on what I know about the specifics of the production. |
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Case
Posts: 1016 |
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I think you and your friend are thinking too hard. #1, straight up. As the most basic level, what we're doing is trying to give a name to these shows we watch... right? Akira, Spirited Away, Cowboy Bebop, Fancy Lala, Tokyo Pig... They cover a huge array of stylistic and other aesthetic areas. But the vast majortiy of them still fall under that first definition. Something like... say... Transformers, or Batman Beyond, does not. But so what? Do they really NEED to be called anime? "Anime" shouldn't be misconstrued as a term of distinction. It's just a name for a certain set of animated works. Transformers and Batman Beyond are international collaborations; if you're obsessed with being technically correct, any variant of that would be perfectly fine from an idealistic standpoint - "international cartoon" or "collaborative animation", depending on your audience of course. That makes perfect sense to me, and I can't find any negative connotation to that phrase in any dictionary I check. I think it actually sounds a little bit flashier than blandly labelling it as "anime"... But maybe that's just me. 
That may be, but appealling is not always equal to truth. Santa Claus coming down the chimney one night every year to promote the spirit of giving is philosophically appealing also.
You mock other people's decisions, but you offer none of your own. How is that fair? What do YOU suggest we do? Not use ANY word to associate Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop if we use them in the same sentence? Should we convey the concept by grunting and nodding instead? Honestly. There's never any point in being non-conformist purely for the sake of being non-conformist. Last edited by Case on Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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I'm not mocking any decisions. I'm saying anime already has a definition-animation. If you don't want to use that definition, fine, but saying "let's make up a new absolute definition" seems pointless to me. If everybody knows what you mean, why not call Eva and Escaflowne anime or animation or cartoons or TV shows or whatever.
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Case
Posts: 1016 |
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I'm sorry, but you did. Saying that we are obsessive-compulsive for having a definition for the word effectively counts as mockey at the vesy least.
That would be fine, if we didn't already have thousands of other works that we call "animation or cartoons or TV shows or whatever". The point of defining it is to let others know that we are talking specifically about "animation or cartoons or TV shows or whatever" that fit into this specific group... Shows like Akira, Spirited Away, Cowboy Bebop, Fancy Lala, or Tokyo Pig. Shows that are discussed on sites like this, magazines like Newtype, and fans of the medium. It's a simple enough to do, if you keep the point of the whole exercise in mind. |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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I didn't call anybody obsessive compulsive, I said it seems like an obsessive compulsive activity to me. And sense one of my best friends is OC, I don't use it as an insult.
I don't see the problem with "anime" having multiple definitions. So many words in english do. That's part of what makes the language so exciting! |
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