Forum - View topicThe first?.. A story of anime archetypes.
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Wu Ming
Posts: 113 |
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This is a question of origins.
All of us here can probably pick apart the archetypes and tropes that make up most of the manga series we see today. But, many of these archetypes had to come from someplace. Now i know someone could probably trace it back to classical literature, but i'm not really talking about that. More like: 1.) Who was the first modern tsundere? "Modern" as in the bi-polar type that Rie Kugimiya has made her career off of and not the older type that was more of a transitional "I hate the main character, but now i'm starting to like him" phase than a mental disorder. 2.) Who was the first modern good guy/everyman with a harem? The great big fixture of harem anime being the nice likeable fellow who is in over his head. ***************************************************** Stuff more like that I suppose. Maybe even "First" is a bad word to use, since i'm really referring to not characters from obscure anime but characters who essentially defined (or in the case of the tsundere, redefined) the stereotypes that recur again and again. Can anyone name a few? I'm curious as to see what shaped modern anime. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3992 Location: New York state. |
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1. Though I wouldn't exactly say she falls under one of the two character types that the archetypal tsundere girl falls under, Madoka Ayukawa from 1988's Kimagure Orange Road is the earliest example of a tsundere I can recall. Her behavior towards love interest Kyosuke Kasuga would depend on her mood, especially with her best friend Hikaru also having interest in him. But, Madoka never went as far as to physically beat or berate him like the more well-known tsunderes of today. There were only a couple cases I recall from the first series of her slapping Kyosuke (one as a front for her reputation as a delinquent, another being justified from Kyosuke misunderstanding Madoka's reputation.) 2. Don't know what you mean by modern good guy. Of what I've seen, Tenchi Masaki is the earliest nice guy that I've seen from the 1992 OAV series Tenchi Muyo: Ryo-ohki to have an unwanted harem of alien girls winding up in his household. But if you are looking for a recent example, Keitaro Urashima of Love Hina from 2000 features the guy as a nice guy ronin student taking over a girl's dormitory because his grandmother, the inn manager, retired from the position which lands him in a dormitory of several girls who follow different romance anime archetypes. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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The Tenchi franchise was earlier, but Love Hina is what popularised (amongst idiots) the Harem Genre. Sayaka Yumi from Mazinger Z was one of the first examples of Tsundere, and Lum from Urusei Yatsura popularised (amongst idiotic hypocrites) the character type. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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the first modern Tsundere was Lum from Urusei Yatsura which came out in 1979.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18588 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I was going to say Lum, too, for the tsundere origin, but she's almost more of a reverse-tsundere character (i.e. sweet on the outside but with a vindictively temperamental nature hidden underneath).
The original Tenchi Muyo OVAs certainly deserve the most credit for founding what we now call harem series, although the Oh My Goddess!! OVAs which came out at about the same time also arguably contributed. (Granted, there was only one true love relationship involved, but it was a case of a nice guy cohabitating with multiple ladies and picking up additional outside love interests from time to time.) Hmmm, I'm thinking John Opplinger once addressed either or both of these issues. I'll check in his archive later in the day and see if I can find any of his Ask John pieces about this. |
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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I always thought Lum was more of yandere than a tsundere because she would get pretty crazy with those lighting strikes. I haven't seen a lot of Urusei Yatsura, but Lum seemed a little more aggressive than a typical tsundere. She does, however, meet the Rie Kugimiya-type of tsundere that seems to be the standard nowadays. I always considered those types to be crazy bitches, but that could just be sign of how anime has changed over the years.
Personally, since I don't count Lum as a tsundere, the earliest tsundere I've seen is Akane Tendo from another Rumiko Takahashi work, Ranma 1/2. She's not as violent as Louise or Nagi, but I think the label of "Tsundere" fits her much better than the others because she's much sweeter. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Why would Elizabeth from Pride and Prejudice not qualify? |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6903 Location: Kazune City |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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1. I think the best link to early tsundere would be Lum from Urusei Yatsura, as Charred Knight. But Of course this can be disputed because some see Lum as not quite fitting the roll of a tsundere. Also some might go so far as to argue that the actual original tsundere was Sayaka Yumi from Mazinger Z. I find this to be a bit of a stretch but I can understand the reasoning. I think one way or another she might have very well been the first (or at least the proto-type of) tsundere.
2. I think it's quite safe to assume that, as people have said already, Tenchi Muyo is considered to be the first harem. I honestly cant think of anything else before it so that would have to be my default answer. I like this topic idea and I hope it keeps going. We could try thinking up other firsts to investigate into and it could lead to some interesting discussions. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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When you consider the anime version of Akane, and Naru are considered Tsundere and both are clearly based off of Lum, than I see no reason why we shouldn't include Lum. As for Harem, the first modern harem was definitly Tenchi Muyo! with Urusei Yatsura, Ranma 1/2, and Fushigi Yugi, being series that came before Tenchi Muyo! but where not really modern harem as we know it. Urusei Yatsura was the first guy surrounded by beautiful women, but in that case only two of them loved Ataru and the rest hated him because of the fact that the man was a pervert whose dream was to have a harem. Ranma 1/2, and Fushigi Yugi while having a sizable romantic tangle really didn't have the size that I think you want. |
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The King of Harts
Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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I don't know, Charred Knight. Ranma has a large nest of love with Akane, Shampoo, Ukyo and Kodachi. Meanwhile, Tenchi has Ryoko and Ayeka (the only two who are in love with him) and then everyone else. When it comes to women actually loving the protagonist in a romantic way, Ranma has the larger harem. Hell, it's still 1:6 of male to female in both series if you take into consideration all the women, but only 1/3 of the women love Tenchi and 2/3 of the women love Ranma.
 Tenchi- Ayeka, Ryoko, Wasshu, Mihoshi, Kiyone and Sasami
Ranma- Akane, Shampoo, Ukyo, Kodachi, Nabiki and Kasumi
I also really want to disagree with Akane being based off Lum, but I don't know if I'm qualified to since I've only seen the first 10 episodes of Urusei Yatsura. In those 10 episodes, though, I saw Lum as a hardcore psycho. Akane is just kind of brutish from her martial arts training, but still softens up a good deal as the show progresses and was much more passive aggressive with the occasional punch. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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They all love Tenchi in the OVA, it's just that Ayeka and Ryoko are the most vocal about it.
I also see no difference between Lum shocking Ataru, and Akane hitting Ranma into the sky. |
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Wu Ming
Posts: 113 |
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Let's expand this a little shall we since this is the thread of "firsts":
1.) The First Yandere? 2.) The First Reverse Harem? 3.) The First School/Slice of Life series that didn't involve mystic powers, giant robots, etc? 4.) The First Rivalry?: Ie the Show whose cornerstone was the rivalry between the protagonist and antagonist (I'm guessing Gundam). Rivalry defined not as simple opposition but more like "We understand each other, and maybe in another life we would have been friends..." :cue dramatic score: or something to that effect. 5.) The First Modern Magical Girl anime? |
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Wu Ming
Posts: 113 |
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Share with us what you find Key! As for Ah My Goddess!!, i'm reluctant to classify that as harem anime. The points you make are good, but Keiichi seems a little more decisive (not too much more  ) than say Tenchi about having a relationship.
I will say this though, with Urd and Skuld around the series seems to be the first case of Anime In-Laws - secondary characters related to one of the primary characters whose goal is to push/pull the relationship in a non-serious manner/for comedic effect only. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I'm glad you at least seem to understand that. Anyway, besides the fact that it has absolutely no redeeming value (not even for fanservice), many of those who initially liked Love Hina have since changed their opinions. I notice you haven't, but one negative does not disprove a generalisation. The franchises of Slayers and Tenchi Muyo were also popular back in the day, and yet nowadays what you hear is former fans saying how they don't like it anymore. And I think to myself, "It took you this long to realise? For shame." |
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