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I can understand doing the live-action stuff sub-only, but why don't they dub the anime in that pile? Do they WANT to alienate dub fans? Evil or Very Mad

The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:

I can understand doing the live-action stuff sub-only, but why don't they dub the anime in that pile? Do they WANT to alienate dub fans? Evil or Very Mad

Yes. Yes, they do. Section23 exists soley to make dub fans upset with them. They're certainly not trying to release new series in a manner that won't cause them to hemorrage money. It's all to annoy dub fans.

Oh, also, yay for release dates for the second sets of Clannad AS and Ghost Hound. Those bad boys are going to be getting a pre-order.

Quark wrote:

The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:

I can understand doing the live-action stuff sub-only, but why don't they dub the anime in that pile? Do they WANT to alienate dub fans? Evil or Very Mad

Yes. Yes, they do. Section23 exists soley to make dub fans upset with them. They're certainly not trying to release new series in a manner that won't cause them to hemorrage money. It's all to annoy dub fans.

Oh, also, yay for release dates for the second sets of Clannad AS and Ghost Hound. Those bad boys are going to be getting a pre-order.

I love the sarcasm.

To the young otaku dub fanboys: Please stop complaining about the lack of a dub. I don't see you doing that to Rightstuff,Bandai or Media Blasters.

GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:

Quark wrote:

The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:

I can understand doing the live-action stuff sub-only, but why don't they dub the anime in that pile? Do they WANT to alienate dub fans? Evil or Very Mad

Yes. Yes, they do. Section23 exists soley to make dub fans upset with them. They're certainly not trying to release new series in a manner that won't cause them to hemorrage money. It's all to annoy dub fans.

Oh, also, yay for release dates for the second sets of Clannad AS and Ghost Hound. Those bad boys are going to be getting a pre-order.

I love the sarcasm.

To the young otaku dub fanboys: Please stop complaining about the lack of a dub. I don't see you doing that to Rightstuff,Bandai or Media Blasters.

Haha then you're not looking hard enough. Bandai, Rightstuf and Media Blasters are all on their shit list too. It's a shame too since aside from the sub-only thing, I would say that Nozomi has the highest quality releases out there.

Quark wrote:

GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:

Quark wrote:

The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:

I can understand doing the live-action stuff sub-only, but why don't they dub the anime in that pile? Do they WANT to alienate dub fans? Evil or Very Mad

Yes. Yes, they do. Section23 exists soley to make dub fans upset with them. They're certainly not trying to release new series in a manner that won't cause them to hemorrage money. It's all to annoy dub fans.

Oh, also, yay for release dates for the second sets of Clannad AS and Ghost Hound. Those bad boys are going to be getting a pre-order.

I love the sarcasm.

To the young otaku dub fanboys: Please stop complaining about the lack of a dub. I don't see you doing that to Rightstuff,Bandai or Media Blasters.

Haha then you're not looking hard enough. Bandai, Rightstuf and Media Blasters are all on their shit list too.

What dub FUNi fanboys don't seem to understand is that the R1 market is not healthly enough for all the licenses to get english dubbed. This isn't 2004. It's 2009. One large label CPM who dubbed everything is gone. ADV has reached a point of starting all over in which they haven't got the ablility to risk dubbing every title they license for Sentai. Maybe if they stopped and thought about the point that the R1 market reached this point because of the fact that lots of titles were illegally stolen,burned and ripped from the net. All the losses Geneon/Pioneer suffered from all the singles that didn't generate profit in which everything was dubbed has brought us to this point and I've learned to accept that.

When Section23 finds another albeit larger investor like FCI/Pony Canyon I'm sure they will be able to invest in english dubbing again.

I mean what if Funimation stars subbing some titles? That's very possible that they may do that as well. Will they whine and complain then?

You forgot Geneon's obscenely overpriced box sets. What the hell were they thinking?

Furthermore, why is the anime industry so slow to adapt and change, and why don't they go after fansubbers? What do they think is going to happen?

Bandai, Sentai, RightStuf, MB, and The Company Formerly Known as ADV all need to get their shit together and start DUBBING everything! No dubs, no sales!

I sure wish Funi got their hands on Ghost Hound before Section 23 did. I was so disappointed when I heard S23 bought the license.

It feels strangely satisfying to see the industry finally recognize the sub fans-who've had to sit back and endure questionable translations and edits over the years-finally get the recognition they deserve for supporting the actual genre and product, while everyone else just makes demands for random titles which they never actually buy. Or when they do buy said titles, it's usually after they've been severely discounted to the point of non-profitability.

While there are dub fans who take the recordings and art-form as seriously as they take the genre, a lot of 'em out there will only watch a show dubbed if it fits into their Hot Topic-verse view of the world. [That is, if "everyone" they know is doing it.] Thus, the only things they've succeeded in doing for the domestic industry are killing off the variety of shows the rest of us can watch, while siphoning the profits and animators' wages off the production companies in Japan by supporting pirating of just about anything and everything under the sun. So, as far as I'm concerned over these wannabe-parasite fans, good riddance. If you want your shit dubbed that badly, then it might help to support it the first time around.

In the case of GITS 2, I could understand why it was dumb for DW not to have a dub, since there was clearly enough of an audience to justify the extra recording dough. But most shows don't have a lot of takers, partly because the same people demanding a dub for them will find another reason not to buy those particular titles. And the only thing this does is screw over the domestic licensors who go to the trouble of picking up these properties to please the fans in the first place. So why blow the extra money for an audience which isn't there, anyway, when you can just go directly to the actual buyers?

Hooray for generalizations. To be honest GATSU, my own experience is the complete opposite. The most damaging and parasitic fans I've ever run across are the fansub fans who hate all things dubbed, and usually are content to download whatever they watch without giving the industry a dime, all while flocking to the internet to make demands of an industry they have no intention of supporting. Some fansub watchers do support the industry though, many do in fact, so there in lies the problem with generalizations. I've met the type in the past, but honestly most fansub watchers I've met don't fit that profile and are good people.

Also, accusing dub fans of not supporting the industry is a horrible comment, not to mention trolling. Not only do you have no proof that dub fans don't support the industry, particularly since to watch a dub they pretty much have to support the industry, but you decide to insult them and generalize as well. I don't need to remind you about the rules regarding trolling here, particularly since your insult and attack is based on absolutely nothing you bothered to present. Either way, this isn't an anti-dub thread, so cease the soapboxing because it's not going to be turned in to one either.

I don't see how this news remotely demonstrates any greater love towards "sub fans" anyways, who are apparently the better and superior fan in your eyes. This is particularly the case since the appearance of a dub has no effect on the way the sub is translated except in the less common and increasingly rarer event of "dubtitles" and edits are even rarer, and hardly an issue since the 90's. Plus, these things your griping about are hardly something you've had to "endure" because of dub fans, and I'm pretty sure dub fans weren't the only ones requesting random titles they never bought. Seriously, do you just have a pair of dice that you roll when you enter a thread to decide what or who of the many things and groups you hate you're going to blame this time? Seriously man, your argument is based on irrational and unlikely assumptions and bias and generalizations.

Keonyn:

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Not only do you have no proof that dub fans don't support the industry,

The fact that even financially stable companies like MB have to sell some of their newer stuff sub-only, because the dubbies don't care, unless the show's dumb enough for them to appreciate, sounds like valid proof to me. I mean, seriously, what're some of the better bilingual sellers from FUNi again? Kenichi and Shuffle? I know To Luv-Ru isn't exactly written by MENSA candidates, either, but at least you can get some entertainment value out of it. The FUNi stuff is mostly dull and generally caters to the consumers who are easy lays. That's why they have to attract the Geneon and ADV buyers with their license-rescues and thefts, because they know their target audience isn't enough to keep them going forever. 4kids was pretty huge once, too, after all.

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particularly since to watch a dub they pretty much have to support the industry,

Not if you watch it on tv.

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Plus, these things your griping about are hardly something you've had to "endure" because of dub fans,

Considering they were willing to buy the dubbed and edited (and cropped) DBZ, as well as Robotech, I beg to differ. Those fans lowered the bar, so we're just taking them out of the equation, that's all.

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The fact that even financially stable companies like MB have to sell some of their newer stuff sub-only...

Not quite. They sell them sub-only because creating a dub costs money, and if it's a very niche release that isn't likely to draw in enough to pay for it then they're not going to spend the money. The rest of your comment is complete bull, again insulting the fans of those shows, and using your own generalization and bias viewpoints as the facts to base your statement on. Again, this behavior is trolling, and trolling isn't tolerated here. That's two warnings.

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Not if you watch it on tv.

Viewership means advertisers pay more for ad slots, and ad slots bring in a lot of money, even for niche shows. It's just as supportive of the industry as the fans who view on TV back in Japan.

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Considering they were willing to buy the dubbed and edited (and cropped) DBZ, as well as Robotech, I beg to differ. Those fans lowered the bar, so we're just taking them out of the equation, that's all.

As I stated, your points were outdated, as evidenced by your use of two very outdated releases.

Now, as I said already once, soapboxing and your little crusade is not the intent of this thread, and what you're discussing is irrelevant to the titles posted here. On top of that, generalizations and insults of an entire element of the fandom and firing off attacks based on assumptions of how they hurt the industry is also not the point of this thread, and is trolling, plain and simple.

So, once again, you're done here.

TV viewers brings ad revenue for television and cable stations, not for the anime itself, since the licensors have to pay to have it broadcast on tv. Nowadays, the only shows the fans normally put their money where their mouths are for the ones they were gonna get on dvd, anyway, even if those series didn't get airtime. Everything else is a crap-shoot, which is why dub fans are currently a thorn in the side of the industry.

The reason is, unless there's a successful manga tie-in, or unless you can keep the concept and/or concept art low-brow or simple enough, it's just not worth it to cater to them. I mean, when even a dubbed Ah My Goddess hemorrhages money for MB, you just know the people who would rather watch, say, Negima, are not going to even consider anything with an iota of depth, characterization, or entertainment value. And those are usually the same people who
drop that stuff and move on to other things, anyway.

As for those releases I described being "out-dated", the cropped DBZ has been around for the last two years, and made money for FUNi, even though the company admitted it sucked. Meanwhile, no company can justify the money to get more Macross over here; but they've already upgraded that Korean Robotech thingy to BD. So if dubbies did enough to help the industry, then we'd be getting the good stuff, and not settling for half-assed releases and content.
And we wouldn't be crossing our fingers that smaller companies get the shows we actually want to see, because the bigger companies either sit on the titles in question [*cough* Monster, Nana, H+C *cough*] or they go for whatever they see out of instinct, just because no one else is interested. [*cough* Shigurui *cough*]

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TV viewers brings ad revenue for television and cable stations, not for the anime itself, since the licensors have to pay to have it broadcast on tv. Nowadays, the only shows the fans normally put their money where their mouths are for the ones they were gonna get on dvd, anyway, even if those series didn't get airtime. Everything else is a crap-shoot, which is why dub fans are currently a thorn in the side of the industry.

You do realize that Funi, MB, Bandai,ect all want their shows to be on TV because that mean potential higher dvd sales and an increase customer base for future products.

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The reason is, unless there's a successful manga tie-in, or unless you can keep the concept and/or concept art low-brow or simple enough, it's just not worth it to cater to them. I mean, when even a dubbed Ah My Goddess hemorrhages money for MB, you just know the people who would rather watch, say, Negima, are not going to even consider anything with an iota of depth, characterization, or entertainment value. And those are usually the same people who
drop that stuff and move on to other things, anyway.

Generalizations for the win?

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As for those releases I described being "out-dated", the cropped DBZ has been around for the last two years, and made money for FUNi, even though the company admitted it sucked. Meanwhile, no company can justify the money to get more Macross over here; but they've already upgraded that Korean Robotech thingy to BD. So if dubbies did enough to help the industry, then we'd be getting the good stuff, and not settling for half-assed releases and content.
And we wouldn't be crossing our fingers that smaller companies get the shows we actually want to see, because the bigger companies either sit on the titles in question [*cough* Monster, Nana, H+C *cough*] or they go for whatever they see out of instinct, just because no one else is interested. [*cough* Shigurui *cough*]

Good stuff is entirely subjective what may be awesome for someone might be awful for somebody else. And one thing you have to realize, Gatsu, is that dubbies is essential to the market. The average anime viewer is not going to want to anime subbed. That's just the way things there. And without dubs the industry would be a lot more niche then it already is.

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TV viewers brings ad revenue for television and cable stations, not for the anime itself...

Again, you fail to present anything that passes a basic logic test as to why dub fans are a thorn in the industries side. You again insult those fans, generalize them, and are basically trolling. And frankly, watching it on TV promotes the anime. On top of that, you're mistaken if you think they just pay the stations to put it up and then the stations take all the ad revenue. Man, if only business were as simple as your narrow-mind believe it was.

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The reason is, unless there's a successful manga tie-in, or unless you can keep the concept and/or concept art low-brow or simple enough, it's just not worth it to cater to them. ...

Are you serious? Because someone likes dubs they're only capable of enjoying something low-brow or simple? This entire paragraph of yours is mindless assumptions and sickening generalizations from someone who is obviously so narrow-minded you've become a form of anime purist/bigot. I'm warning you right now GATSU for the last time. If you're going to just insult people with nothing to support yourself except your own assumptions and generalizations, all while trolling and insulting an entire segment of the fanbase just because they don't see things exactly how you want them to see it, then you're done here. Understand? This is not your soapbox or your reich, so step down.

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As for those releases I described being "out-dated", the cropped DBZ has been around for the last two years, and made money for FUNi, even though the company admitted it sucked. ...

And again you fail to present a logical case that is anything beyond what you either want to believe or convinced yourself is the case, for the sake of your own prejudice and intolerance. Macross is older than dirt, and DBZ is a very specific title catering to a specific audience, and is in no ways representative of the industry as a whole. You took two of the most extreme examples possible to prove your point, and frankly, no one is going to buy it. Not only that, but you failed to actually present how any of that is the "dubbies" fault or how the "subbies" who latch on to fansubs and don't buy are not responsible in any way.

Frankly GATSU, you've again done nothing but proven your bias, prejudice and intolerance, evidenced by your entire argument based on half-truths, generalizations and assumptions, all while making repeated attempts to insult the segment of fans you decided you don't like. The fact you go out of your way to insult them only makes your prejudice that much more glaringly obvious. And in the process of your trolling, you've managed to outright kill yet another thread and drag it off topic. And so with that, I'm telling you right now that this is done. So unless you're going to present something real and beyond your insanely narrow-minded bias, then your exercise in bigotry is over.

I'm perplexed at the MRSP of Ghost Hound. Why so much compared to the other titles?

I don't recall Clannad being served up at $40 per set either.

The $40 price point is interesting, and welcomed. I guess Sentai Filmworks is trying to recapitalize and hopes this price will attract more customers for its sub-only offering.

Anyone own the Clannad DVDs and have seen the TANOD airing? I'm curious to know if the sub-titling is the same.

The subtitles in Aria weren't the same as TANOD, which is why I ask (and why I bought the DVD series).

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