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What's the difference between anime and U.S. cartoons?


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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:13 am Reply with quote
Heh. I know this thread's been around before, but I just want to see what'll happen.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. I just want some of your opinions on what you think is different between animated films in Japan and America (*whispers* it's for my paper.)

Basically, all I can come up with is that anime has a different art style and that the content is much more diverse than U.S. cartoons.

Yes, yes, I know in Japan manga actually means comic or cartoon, and that anime is just a word to classify the genre, like "sci-fi" or "slasher" (at least that's what I think I remember hearing... Rolling Eyes.)

Anyway, go ahead and discuss this if you want, hopefully you all can generate a good, clean fight without taking a bite out of your opponent's ear. Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Tony K. on Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mitsuru



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:26 am Reply with quote
By definition, anime is a format and is strictly drawn in Japan. There have been times, where you couldn't tell it was anime until you looked at the credits - so I have read.

But in my opinion, the adapted definition in today's society of anime is - a show or movie, with a style of art that was created by Japanese culture. It usually consists of certain elements - story, drama, (tragedy or comedy), etc.
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Chiyosuke



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:45 am Reply with quote
In Japan anime means any form of animation (including Western). In the US anime means strictly Japanese animation (created, planned and animated in Japan). Also hybrid production count as anime (like how ADV, Bandai, Geneon or Urban Vision produce/finance Japanese animation) I don't consider The Animatirx to be anime because that was an American idea/production, not Japanese (although they did the direction and animation production), and two of the shorts weren't anime anyway. One was American and one was Korean. Manga is Japanese comics.

I hope that helps.
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Aaron White
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:10 am Reply with quote
I suspect Tony is really more interested in talking about the differences between Eastern and Western animation than the same old boring haisplitting definitions of "anime."

One thing I think is significant is that western animation developed the "classical" or full-animation style that we see even before color in animation-early on, the Fleicher Bros. and Disney were doing cartoons that emphasised smooth flowing motion. Classical animation became the standard in western animation, while in Japan they didn't have the resources for much of that. Instead they created a limited-animation style that depended on editing largely static shots together, so Japanese animation depended more on Eisensteinian editing that Western animation ever has. It's stayed that way, even though more anime has full or partially full animation, and there's a lot of limited animation in the west now. When Western animators like Hanna and Barbara switched from classical to limited animation they did so in a more primitive and less cinematic fashion than japanese animators had, relying on dialogue and minimal visual staging.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:38 am Reply with quote
Aaron White wrote:
One thing I think is significant...(etc.)

Wow. That's pretty insightful. Thanks. You mind if I add some of this info to my paper? You won't sue me or claim plagerism will you? Crying or Very sad
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Aaron White
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:49 am Reply with quote
I don't mind at all, but I'm no authority; you're gonna want to cite more substantial sources than "Some internet fanboy." And I can't for the life of me recall what source material I'm drawing on for that post. I mean, some of it comes from my own observations, but I'm pretty sure I read some stuff about how early eastern and western animation styles developed, and that fed into it.
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the_soultaker



Joined: 25 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:19 pm Reply with quote
lmaooo there's a huge difference. any otaku knows that with anime there is better storytelling, although most series can be a bit too epidsodic and some just drag on and on. ("cough" noir "cough" garasaki "cough")

there's also no holds barred action, battle scenes,profanity and a bit of sexuality that do not cater to the dreaded FCC's standards of practice. what you see is what you'll love.

back when i was much younger. (13 yrs old) while many kids my age was tuning into lame @ss he man cartoons, i was watching captain harlock,cyborg 009,galaxy express etc on a foreign station. (with english subtitles) and i was hooked ever since. now the unfortunate thing is that one-shot ovas a few and far between. most anime series can drag as long as 8 volumes. it could be a good thing as well as bad depending on how much one likes a series in particular. (HELLSING rules!)
Wink

plus i resent when people think of a prime example of anime; they mention DRAGON BALL Z(!?!) WTF?



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jmays
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:27 pm Reply with quote
I'm sure you're sick of all the "technical" definitions of anime, but an LA Times article from a few days ago had the best one I've seen from a major paper:

Quote:
Although "anime" simply means animation, the product differs from U.S. cartoons and animated films in that it is not geared mostly to children. Like its printed counterpart, manga comics, anime is a diverse field, producing everything from cute children's programs such as "Sailor Moon" — a superhero schoolgirl with impossibly long legs and big eyes — to violent and sexual images for Japan's otaku, or "nerd," subculture.

Many foreign fans have been won over by the imagination and intelligent story lines in the genre's most celebrated works. Others are drawn in simply by the vivid colors, fantastic characters and surreal landscapes common in anime.

I'd also suggest you steer clear of the stuff the_soultaker said above...but I'm sure you knew that already.
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the_soultaker



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:11 pm Reply with quote
i wasn't quite sure what he maigi meant when he said to steer clear of the stuff i mentioned. (albiet my opinion or the aforementioned animes themselves.) or does he strongly dislike my previous post. i would hope it wasn't the latter because as a moderator, i think he would do well to avoid a posting a cheap shot like "which i'm sure most of you have". Shocked i dunno Confused

his statement can be viewed two ways. it all depends on one's perception. oh well everyone is entitled to their opinion albeit right,wrong or indifferent.

my thanks to tony k for an interesting topic and feedback.


Last edited by the_soultaker on Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Aaron White
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Soultaker, I think he meant steer clear of Gasaraki, noir, DBZ, and he-man, the shows you mentioned as inferior shows. In other words, I think s/he was agreeing with you.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:49 pm Reply with quote
Aaron White wrote:
I don't mind at all, but I'm no authority; you're gonna want to cite more substantial sources than "Some internet fanboy."

Hmm. Now that I think about it, maybe I shouldn't get so techincal in the paper. It sounded nice when I first read it, but when I looked at my outline and paper guidelines, I remember my professor saying "it should be information you are realtively familiar with, but don't try to make it a research paper, either."

So, maybe I'll just try and keep it a little more simple. Thanks anyway. Very Happy

Miagi wrote:
I'm sure you're sick of all the "technical" definitions of anime

Yeah, I kind of already had an idea in terms of origin. However, right now, I'm looking more for opinions from actual viewers in what they think about anime in an entertainment sense rather than how it differs technically.

Yeah, I suppose having some technical differences can extend my paper's content, but I think the more relevant difference lies in the enjoyment values. But thanks for that L.A. Times quote, that's the general idea I'm looking for. Razz

Miagi wrote:
I'd also suggest you steer clear of the stuff the_soultaker said above...but I'm sure you knew that already.

Yeah, DBZ, Gasaraki (which I haven't seen), Pokemon, and Yuu-gi-oh! will all be avoided for reference puposes.

Thank you the_soultaker-san! Wink
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Tenchi



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:03 pm Reply with quote
I find that, whenever this subject is addressed, usually there are generalities about American cartoons, and I hate generalities, because generalities all suck. Twisted Evil

Actually, I addressed this very subject in an article I wrote in my blog entitled "PARENT'S GUIDE TO ANIME" (...FANDOM CHAUVINISM)". (In keeping with the rules of this forum regarding spoilers, beware the unmarked Cowboy Bebop spoiler, it's a doozy.)

It's way too long for me to repost in its entirety, but here are the most crucial two paragraphs.

I wrote:
See, that's the number one thing that annoys me about a lot of pro-anime propaganda, the cheap shots they often take at western cartoons. No, not all American or Canadian cartoons have "one-dimensional" characters. Have these people ever seen The Nightmare Before Christmas or King of the Hill or The Iron Giant or Daria or Undergrads, which are just some examples American-produced cartoons which have at least some characters which aren't just one-dimensional? All those cartoons have strong, character-driven storylines. Even a lot of the superhero cartoons, especially those made post-Superfriends, have characters whom do worry about things outside of their day-jobs, inspired, yes, in some cases by anime, but also their source material. comic books, has, in many cases, matured compared to what they used to be in large part due to the graphic novel revolution of the 1980s, as well as influences from more underground comic books prior to that era.

And, of course Bugs Bunny is completely one-dimensional... he's the star of seven-minute long cartoons which are basically successions of sight gags with Bugs as a "trickster" character. And some of those cartoons are absolutely brilliant in that way, because some cartoons neccessitate one-dimensional characterizations; multi-dimensional characters in one-dimensional situations wouldn't work. One-dimensional characterizations are not a sign of inferior writing, just a different style of writing. And to imply that there aren't any Japanese cartoons with one-dimensional characters is just ludicrous. Adventures of Mini-Goddess is an example of seven-minute long gag cartoons with characters, with the exception of Gan-chan whom is the comic foil "straight man" (or "straight rat", I suppose), just as one-dimensional as anything in the Warner Brothers' Looney Tunes stable. And, yes, there are plenty of bad Japanese cartoons with one-dimensional characters, like an awful lot of the Dragonball or Yuu Yuu Hakusho-clones I've seen, which, if I named them, I'd get angry e-mail from the fans which would read like "But in episode 92, so-and-so-a-character, who's usually a generic tough guy, showed some degree of anguish, therefore he isn't one-dimensiuonal!", in which case I could name "In episode XX" examples for the American cartoon shows I watch to disprove any one-dimensional claims. Yes, even for Ralph Wiggum. And Urusei Yatsura, about my favourite anime, has mostly characters whom are one-dimensional at least 90% of the time. The times when Ataru does show his affection for Lum doesn't disprove the fact that he's a fairly one-dimensional girl chaser in most episodes.
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kamiboy



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:25 pm Reply with quote
To me, the main difference is that American animation reached the peak of its development in the 40-50's and hasn't really developed since then. It has been stuck in the "cartoons are for little children" rot and that has retarded its further development. In Japan, on the other hand, animation was just getting started when western animation had already come into its own. I think it can be widely agreed upon that Japanese animation reached its development peak in the 80-90's and hasn't developed much since then.

But that is not talking about the technical aspects of animation, which have lately been going trough a revolution of sorts with the transition into the digital domain and the increased use of 3D CGI.
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Aaron White
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:38 pm Reply with quote
kamiboy wrote:
American animation...has been stuck in the "cartoons are for little children" rot and that has retarded its further development.


Fritz the Cat, American Pop, Simpsons, Beavis and Butthead, Heavy Traffic, Aeon Flux, The Maxx, South Park, are a few that break out of that paradigm. And many of Disney's and Warner Bros. cartoons aren't "for little kids" but "for everyone, little kids included."

Quote:
I think it can be widely agreed upon that Japanese animation reached its development peak in the 80-90's and hasn't developed much since then.

How so?
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Nagisa
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:03 pm Reply with quote
Aaron White wrote:
Soultaker, I think he meant steer clear of Gasaraki, noir, DBZ, and he-man, the shows you mentioned as inferior shows. In other words, I think s/he was agreeing with you.


No, Miagi's saying that what the_soultaker posted was juvenile and ignorant. Which...it is.

There's no reason to avoid the shows that the_soultaker mentioned, just ignore his "anime r better then Amerikun toons because theyres sex & vilince!!!!!!!11111111" nonsense.
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