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What is the "Absolute Territory"?


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Brutannica



Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 257
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:16 pm Reply with quote
H. Guderian wrote:
You can 'attempt' ZR on the arms...but the arms just aren't interesting territory. ZR is appealing without being sexual.


You know, I actually think the same principle would work here. Wearing long gloves does highlight shoulders more, and if character designers/actual people used them more often, it could conceivably start a shoulder fetish. Is it the next ZR? Probably not, but you never know.

#861208 wrote:


from tourabu


All right, this is one of those cases where the character designer just drew a girl and called her a boy...
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3768
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Brutannica wrote:
You know, I actually think the same principle would work here. Wearing long gloves does highlight shoulders more, and if character designers/actual people used them more often, it could conceivably start a shoulder fetish. Is it the next ZR? Probably not, but you never know.


I've seen sleeveless shirts and long gloves/arm covers before, so it is conceivable. Though I think it would be most appealing to already extent fetish of another area that would be exposed rather than starting a new shoulder fetish, though I'm not sure the latter doesn't already exist.
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lebrel



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:12 pm Reply with quote
Brutannica wrote:
All right, this is one of those cases where the character designer just drew a girl and called her a boy...


I dunno, the body proportions fit a guy (of the "slender girlish bishounen as seen in shoujo manga" variety). Look at the hands and the torso/leg ratio...

zrnzle500 wrote:
Brutannica wrote:
You know, I actually think the same principle would work here. Wearing long gloves does highlight shoulders more, and if character designers/actual people used them more often, it could conceivably start a shoulder fetish. Is it the next ZR? Probably not, but you never know.


I've seen sleeveless shirts and long gloves/arm covers before, so it is conceivable. Though I think it would be most appealing to already extent fetish of another area that would be exposed rather than starting a new shoulder fetish, though I'm not sure the latter doesn't already exist.


I think that combo shows up on a number of ninja-esque outfits in particular, including the occasional guy...
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3768
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:59 pm Reply with quote
lebrel wrote:
zrnzle500 wrote:
I've seen sleeveless shirts and long gloves/arm covers before, so it is conceivable. Though I think it would be most appealing to already extent fetish of another area that would be exposed rather than starting a new shoulder fetish, though I'm not sure the latter doesn't already exist.


I think that combo shows up on a number of ninja-esque outfits in particular, including the occasional guy...


That's right. That made me think of an example
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/5/54/SakuraSaberGOStage4.png/revision/latest?cb=20161126193311[/img]
Though I think that one is aiming for a different target audience, so to speak.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4430
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:11 pm Reply with quote
#861208 wrote:
.... if Chise's knees count, boys' knees count, too.


Chise and Yagen - easily best characters of the season.

edit: wait! L has the OTK version!



what I am more surprised is that boys using ZR weren't used more often since they were used a lot in some bishoen yaoi and pseudo yaoi series. one example is of course series like gakuen heaven , free eternal summer and ouran host high school .
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13599
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:11 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
A lot of the Disney Channel live-action sitcoms also put their female leads in combinations of short skirts and socks, though the socks typically only go up to about halfway up the shins or just below the knees. Someone at the Disney Channel's wardrobe department seems to be a fan of C- and D-grade zettai ryouiki.

If the House of Mouse is wanting to maintain a family-friendly image with shows appeals to boys and girls, I don't think such clothing is a good role mode for girls. Now, if the show is TV-PG or TV-14 oriented, then I don't think's as bad.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:24 am Reply with quote
Kadmos1 wrote:
If the House of Mouse is wanting to maintain a family-friendly image with shows appeals to boys and girls, I don't think such clothing is a good role mode for girls. Now, if the show is TV-PG or TV-14 oriented, then I don't think's as bad.


Well, as others previously mentioned in this thread, zettai ryouiki likely came about because skirts and socks or stockings leaving a strip of exposed skin had already been around as a combination on young ladies, and in Japan accidentally became a fetish trope. Consider also that a skirt and stockings with some amount of exposed legs is already a standard part of the archetypal Catholic schoolgirl uniform (which is fetishized in the west in a similar way that the sailor fuku is fetishized in Japan), and I'd say that showing some leg is one way they can have some fanservice without setting off the moral guardians (along with the too-tight T-shirts many seem to wear).

Nickelodeon's live-action sitcoms have also been doing this sort of thing (though not quite as much as the Disney Channel), which leads me to believe there was once a common ancestor of these fetishes, which diverged such that there was less exposed leg in Japan and more exposed leg in the west.
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Peebs



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 423
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:20 pm Reply with quote
I wish a woman had written this article. She could've come up with visual examples of males wearing ZR, or at least mentioned names other than TMR. #justsaying
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Mojave



Joined: 07 May 2017
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:28 am Reply with quote
Peebs wrote:
I wish a woman had written this article. She could've come up with visual examples of males wearing ZR, or at least mentioned names other than TMR. #justsaying


The article spelled our pretty clearly that ZR as a trend originated specifically from the uniforms of Japanese schoolgirls, and that it became a fetish for reasons unique to that situation. The article was right to leave out most mentions of boys wearing something only slightly similar, as that's not what ZR is or comes from. I realize there are a large number of female commenters on here who are very interested in fan-service aimed at them, but bashing articles that discuss specific themes found only in male-oriented fan-service for not catering to you is wildly inappropriate.
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#861208



Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 423
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:31 pm Reply with quote
lebrel wrote:


zrnzle500 wrote:
Brutannica wrote:
You know, I actually think the same principle would work here. Wearing long gloves does highlight shoulders more, and if character designers/actual people used them more often, it could conceivably start a shoulder fetish. Is it the next ZR? Probably not, but you never know.


I've seen sleeveless shirts and long gloves/arm covers before, so it is conceivable. Though I think it would be most appealing to already extent fetish of another area that would be exposed rather than starting a new shoulder fetish, though I'm not sure the latter doesn't already exist.


I think that combo shows up on a number of ninja-esque outfits in particular, including the occasional guy...




^ if you didn't just get this song stuck in your head, you must not have seen this episode, and if you haven't seen this episode, I feel sorry for you.



Peebs wrote:
I wish a woman had written this article. She could've come up with visual examples of males wearing ZR, or at least mentioned names other than TMR. #justsaying

- That's what forums are for, or write your own article. Fix it, don't complain.
- Gay men exist
- Hashtag...? really?

I... don't get the impulse to complain instead of fixing it.
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jutsuri



Joined: 14 Aug 2015
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:39 am Reply with quote
I've seen a couple other areas proposed as ZR, namely the nape of the neck of a girl with a ponytail and the exposed skin between a working mans' socks and the hem of his pants when he crosses his legs.

I have a particular fondness for the nape of a mans' neck, particularly one wearing a kimono. There's something about that collar that just gets me, so that would be my personal ZR.

I have to disagree with the statement that woman don't fetishize men's legs, I've always appreciated a 'well turned calf' and I think the phrase exists because many other women do too. One could probably make a good argument for a male ZR in the calf area, although I'm not fashion conscious enough to come up with examples of clothing that leave that particular section exposed...
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invalidname
Contributor



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2476
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:02 am Reply with quote
One thing I'd like to know is if and how, IRL, socks or stockings of this height stay up, especially once they're covering a knee that's being constantly bent. Do they have to be really tight? Are they even comfortable?
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9981
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:48 am Reply with quote
@invalidname

The ones I've seen have a band of fairly strong elastic at the top. They constrict the thigh to some extent and, according to my wife, are not comfortable. The knee is handled by the fact that the basic stocking is stretchy and has what was initially advertised as "memory yarn". You couldn't do this with nylon stockings as they had very little stretch and tended to bag at the knee if not tended. That is why they had elastic garters to hold them up.

As bad a rap as pantyhose gets these days, I can remember when all the young women of my acquaintance readily adopted them. The reason being that they were much more comfortable and practical than the hose and garter system they replaced.
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