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Loli discussion

Also, after having a nearly 4-5 page discussion with you on the basis of the words, it should be fairly obvious to anyone who had read the thread (see the new 1 week ban rule at the top of the freaking page) that loli is not inherently a sexual term unless you misconstrue it as so.

This is a personal problem on the part of the misconstruer (somehow, I don't think that's a word), and is not the responsibility of the rest of the world to correct him. If he thinks loli = lolicon hentai in the face of a discussion and rather widespread agreement that the term 'loli' should not refer exclusively to sexualized content, then he's just being stubborn unless he can provide a convincing reason why it is not.

Finally, here is the problem with what Mohawk is saying: Mohawk is looking at goth loli pics and calling some of the pictures 'erotic in an uncomfortable way'. Here's the thing, he seems to be assuming that becuase there are one or two pictures that are showing some skin, it must be some sort of sexual fetish complex. THIS IS WRONG.

Every model, for every type of product or every photo shoot does this, I can not think of a single example where any model has EVER deliberately gone for a non-cute or non-sexy pose. Why? Because that is how they are judged to look best. You may argue that there is some aspect of sexuality there, and I can't really disprove that, but find me a model for ANYTHING that doesn't try and play on that card and I'll show you a bad model. You ever see really fat models? Not really. Ever see a model with a nose like an elephant's? Of course not. How about a leper as a model? Ewww... Models are attractive, that's the idea; good looking people just plain get better reactions, this is just something that is true in the world, whether you want to admit it or not.

Even if they're not professional models, everybody is well aware of that fact, particularly cosplayers. You can find those pictures as disgusting as you wish to read them as, but to go and assume it's all just some sort of sexual fetish without even trying to understand what is going on... that's pretty ignorant.

You can claim whatever you want all you want, but that doesn't mean it's true or was intended that way.

Every model, for every type of product or every photo shoot does this, I can not think of a single example where any model has EVER deliberately gone for a non-cute or non-sexy pose. Why? Because that is how they are judged to look best. You may argue that there is some aspect of sexuality there, and I can't really disprove that, but find me a model for ANYTHING that doesn't try and play on that card and I'll show you a bad model. You ever see really fat models? Not really. Ever see a model with a nose like an elephant's? Of course not. How about a leper as a model? Ewww... Models are attractive, that's the idea; good looking people just plain get better reactions, this is just something that is true in the world, whether you want to admit it or not.

I don't see the point of arguing that loli isn't sexual, it certainly doesn't have to have some hardcore erotic appeal, but its there because the audience finds it attractive in some way. A lot of people throw around the art argument, but I have to say, when it comes to representations of people you can't really equate it to enjoying a nice landscape. Sure its there sometimes (I'll be damned if stuff like Takamichi's drawings aren't amazing art) but the core of it all IS about finding in this case drawings of a certain body type appealing. Its the same as enjoying traditional huge boobed or assed ecchi or having a thing for chubby girls. It doesn't make you some hentai fiend but to say the sexual element is entirely absent is ridiculous.

The term is borrowed from Japan, where it is a slang portmanteau short for Lolita complex. In Japanese, it refers to an attraction to girls below the age of consent, or an individual attracted to such a person.

Agreed. Some people here seem to have some kind of sick, twisted image of loli as simply being a kind of art, which is indeed a "sick, twisted" image that worries me. If nobody has read the wikipedia on lolicon that was mentioned in the thread starter's post, let me quote it:

You may argue that there is some aspect of sexuality there, and I can't really disprove that, but find me a model for ANYTHING that doesn't try and play on that card and I'll show you a bad model....Models are attractive, that's the idea

That means that the word "lolicon" has 100% sexual connotations. It has 100% sexual implication. It refers 100% to sexual attraction. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean "lolicon" automatically points to "loli hentai", as there are plenty of lolicon in your-average-anime, but the average person who doesn't know much about anime but knows what lolicon means will believe that lolicon = loli hentai. To think that is a matter of ignorance is ignorance (of not knowing what lolicon truly is) on the part of the person who thinks in that manner. The only difference I see between lolicon-in-your-average-anime and lolicon-in-hentai is that one's implied, while the other is explicitly shown. Either way, lolicon is sexual attraction toward girls below the age of consent.

To address the difference between "loli" and "lolicon", it's pretty obvious that "loli" can either be a short form of "lolita" or an adjective of the noun "lolicon". Either way, does it make much difference?

/Complex:
7. Psychology. a system of interrelated, emotion-charged ideas, feelings, memories, and impulses that is usually repressed and that gives rise to abnormal or pathological behavior.
8. a fixed idea; an obsessive notion.

No, I honestly didn't read your posts. I only read the ones I agreed with and deduced from what was written...

Either way, lolicon is sexual attraction toward girls below the age of consent.

an attraction to any girl beneath the age of consent, both perceived and actual pedophilia and ephebophilia.

What a nice little flame war this is. It's so nice to see grown men and women bickering like little children. GROW UP. It is very obvious neither side wants to listen to the other.

Since it's painfully obvious this thread is well beyond the means of any kind of civil discussion if the mods have any kind of heart in them pleassssseeeeee lock it now and stop this endless, futile debate that will never be resolved.

What a nice little flame war this is. It's so nice to see grown men and women bickering like little children. GROW UP. It is very obvious neither side wants to listen to the other. Selenta, you're a smart person so you should see the futility of constantly explaining yourself to people who's head is so far up their butt that they couldn't tell the color of the sky if it fell down on them. Save your breath and your sanity, and simply take to heart you know the difference between the terms loli and lolita.. To all the "loli is the same as lolita" people, get a grip and go take some damn valium. You guys make it seems like a damn crusade you have going on here. They are both seperate terms deal with it or move on. Since it's painfully obvious this thread is well beyond the means of any kind of civil discussion if the mods have any kind of heart in them pleassssseeeeee lock it now and stop this endless, futile debate that will never be resolved.

psycho 101 wrote:

What a nice little flame war this is. It's so nice to see grown men and women bickering like little children. GROW UP. It is very obvious neither side wants to listen to the other. Selenta, you're a smart person so you should see the futility of constantly explaining yourself to people who's head is so far up their butt that they couldn't tell the color of the sky if it fell down on them. Save your breath and your sanity, and simply take to heart you know the difference between the terms loli and lolita.. To all the "loli is the same as lolita" people, get a grip and go take some damn valium. You guys make it seems like a damn crusade you have going on here. They are both seperate terms deal with it or move on. Since it's painfully obvious this thread is well beyond the means of any kind of civil discussion if the mods have any kind of heart in them pleassssseeeeee lock it now and stop this endless, futile debate that will never be resolved.

For the second time, thank you for your kind backseat moderation, sir.

/ㅎㅎ