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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4473
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2024 12:41 am
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MFrontier wrote: | It's not often we get an episode where the main character isn't even there, but it's a great opportunity to spotlight the supporting cast and show the MC's influence on the world and people around them.
A Villainess doesn't need to give charity, making you self-sufficient is better in the long run.
I think Alicia's dad is probably one of the better Villainess dads. He means well and when he's already lost two sons to Liz, you can see where he's coming from. He just didn't reckon for how hardcore his daughter is...or how that would put him in the doghouse with his wife.
Liz is slowly but surely brainwashing the entire school. Which is kind of ironic because now she has girls acting catty and dismissive of Alicia which is exactly what a Villainess would do to the Heroine. Though the real question is whether she's doing this consciously or it's just a natural byproduct of her Saint powers.
"Fait accompli" "I don't want anyone else to know her as well as I do" - Jeez Duke, simmer down. Maybe it's for the best that she's basically aged up to an adult woman now before their relationship escalated even more.
But Liz's time-skip design is absolutely drop-dead gorgeous. |
i have a feeling that if they are not going to the whole "the villainess all along" plotline, its mode likely that her ability to charm others will be due to her gift as a saint, and it a ability that she cant control ala alicia from villainess lv 99!
though i would not be surprised that her charm did ended up working on everyone minus gil. that including the duke.
after all, unless that opening theme scenes was a massive red herring, (with those end up crossing swords , and in the proccess, the duke being the reason alicia looses her left eye ) its a safe bet that he will end up being her enemy due to the time skip
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beaverusiv
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 20
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:48 pm
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Quote: | Good on Jill for being more than a yes-man. He immediately calls Alicia on her BS for how she treated Duke. |
While I agree with this, I wasn't sure how to interpret this scene; is it someone whose conflicted and their actions end up different to how they'd want to act, or is this maybe Liz's power in action? Or the plot trying to reset itself?
I guess we'll find out as it goes, I don't particularly like or dislike any option
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MFrontier
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 14258
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:59 pm
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Alicia truly has become a Villainess that will go down in history, Already flexing her skills, giving away an eye to her beloved grandfather so he can finally see his loved ones again and how far Roana village has become, winning several verbal joust with Liz and her brainwashed flunkies, and even rejecting the prince!
I'm starting to think Liz is genuinely so caught up in her status as a Saint and the way the world just seems to bend itself around her to work in her favor that she has virtually no self-awareness or can't even understand her own feelings. I really think she didn't realize how much she might actually resent Alicia, or might have unconsciously put her in danger, until Alicia put the idea into her head. But obviously the Saint isn't supposed to feel these things...I wonder if there's still a way she and Alicia can come together. Deep down it doesn't feel like they should be enemies even though they keep ending up in opposition.
Alicia's relationship with Duke is probably one of the more controversial and least explored dynamic in the series. I mean, he was coming off wayyyy too strong and possessive, and Alicia is right that they don't really have that kind of relationship, but she has been in denial about Dukes' feelings constantly and may have realized that his affections matter more to her than she realized.
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4473
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 3:12 am
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MFrontier wrote: | Alicia truly has become a Villainess that will go down in history, Already flexing her skills, giving away an eye to her beloved grandfather so he can finally see his loved ones again and how far Roana village has become, winning several verbal joust with Liz and her brainwashed flunkies, and even rejecting the prince!
I'm starting to think Liz is genuinely so caught up in her status as a Saint and the way the world just seems to bend itself around her to work in her favor that she has virtually no self-awareness or can't even understand her own feelings. I really think she didn't realize how much she might actually resent Alicia, or might have unconsciously put her in danger, until Alicia put the idea into her head. But obviously the Saint isn't supposed to feel these things...I wonder if there's still a way she and Alicia can come together. Deep down it doesn't feel like they should be enemies even though they keep ending up in opposition.
Alicia's relationship with Duke is probably one of the more controversial and least explored dynamic in the series. I mean, he was coming off wayyyy too strong and possessive, and Alicia is right that they don't really have that kind of relationship, but she has been in denial about Dukes' feelings constantly and may have realized that his affections matter more to her than she realized. |
have a feeling that this rejection will be the turning point of the series. aka, allow liz to use her abilities to charm duke into submission while he's at his lowest mentally and emotionally.
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Thesarum
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Joined: 25 Mar 2022
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2024 4:17 pm
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jr240483 wrote: | have a feeling that this rejection will be the turning point of the series. aka, allow liz to use her abilities to charm duke into submission while he's at his lowest mentally and emotionally. |
That was my thought too - his interest in Alicia immunised him in some way against Liz's charm ability. Even if that's just that he thought much more highly of her actions and ideals and had faith in her ability to deliver them, so Liz's particular brand of idealistic wish fulfilment found no purchase in his mind. Now, Alicia has unfortunately broken her own spell and hurt him. He's going to be a lot more susceptible to someone promising a future where things just work out because we want them to.
She's the protagonist of this story of course, so she'll presumably put things right eventually... but maybe it's time for Alicia to be forced to do a little of her own self reflection. On just what being a "villainess" means to her.
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Thesarum
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Joined: 25 Mar 2022
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Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 4:15 pm
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Gill has grown into such a great character. I love him teasing Alicia, or just generally being sarcastic in her direction. He's a great foil to puncture her villainess bubble. He's fiercely loyal, but he's also smart. And that means he recognises that he can't be a bag-carrying yes man. He needs to be there to pull her back a little from her self-imposed persona when it gets between her and what she actually wants. And sometimes he needs to say what Alicia herself cannot.
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MemoBookworm
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 30
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 9:56 am
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Despite Alicia being the MC I'm honestly a lot more intrigued by Liz. At this point I'm pretty sure there's no hidden twist and she's exactly what she seems to be, and what she seems to be is pretty interesting.
The tragic thing for Liz is how much her charm magic has stunted her growth. Her ideals are childish and naive but because they always seem to work she hasn't been forced to modify or adapt them. We've seen that she can come up with better solutions when Alicia challenges her or points out their flaws, but she's absolutely surrounded by yes-men who rush to shout down any challenge- no matter how reasonable.
She also can't accept that she might fall short of those ideals. Her reaction when Alicia points out that Liz must hate her is interesting- frankly Liz has every right to dislike Alicia. She's been consistently antagonistic to her if not outright mean and on top of that the guy who Liz has feelings for has feelings for Alicia. Not liking her would be a totally normal human emotion! But that falls short of Liz's lofty ideals so she can't accept that and instead she represses those emotions. Which is potentially very dangerous!
It's all interesting enough that I might have to pick up the original novels. I'm always a bit iffy on how these villainess stories treat the original heroine. Making her an outright villain feels contrary to the motivations of these stories, but having her just be one-dimensionally nice is boring. Thus far I think Liz is one of the best i've seen.
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Yunuyei
Joined: 28 Nov 2024
Posts: 1
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Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 2:38 am
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I'm surprised how many people have a problem with the age gap.
It was a little bit weird when Alicia was 10 that Duke had a crush on her, but he really starts pursuing her when she is 15 and it is a somekind medieval world.
5 years is not so huge. In my school many of many of my 15/16 years old classmates had boyfriends 4-7 years older. Pretty common in Germany
On the other hand, she is is older as him when it comes to her mind. Many people criticize this regarding Mushoku Tensei (he is in adult an teenage boy body marrying teenage girls.
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MFrontier
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 14258
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Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:18 am
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Alicia entering the Heroine's class like a boss!
I know Alicia claimed Liz might secretly hate her but I feel like she's pretty much genuine in her intentions to get along with Alicia but that she unconsciously channels her negative emotions in ways she doesn't expect like into her groupies or unconsciously controlling Alicia and not the thug who could attack her.
Will Alicia and Liz ever get along? Are they forever destined to be rivals? I mean, that's what Alicia wants, but is she being too hard on Liz when it seems like Liz is genuinely trying to connect with her? Although I get that Liz is the type of girl that Alicia hates, but it seems like a part of her refuses to understand or meet Liz halfway.
If Alicia is going to entertain the idea she has romantic feelings for Duke, then she's going to act on them in a way befitting a Villainess. Even if she still acts like a maiden in love otherwise.
A Villainess Condemnation event! And an attempt to frame Alicia in a way she can respect!
I'm curious why there are some students who aren't brainwashed while most are. Like Carol seems like a genuinely nice person who is immune to the effects of Liz and doesn't seem to understand why people are acting this way.
Alicia and Duke being open and honest with each other might be the best thing to happen to their relationship.
Alicia has gained a fangirl and Liz has a hater!
What a surprise that Will is Duke's uncle! Even if they'd kind of been spoiling it the whole time...
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Thesarum
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Joined: 25 Mar 2022
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Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:11 am
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MFrontier wrote: | Will Alicia and Liz ever get along? Are they forever destined to be rivals? I mean, that's what Alicia wants, but is she being too hard on Liz when it seems like Liz is genuinely trying to connect with her? Although I get that Liz is the type of girl that Alicia hates, but it seems like a part of her refuses to understand or meet Liz halfway. |
Both girls are captives of their own narratives. Liz self-defines as a "good person", and a good person would try to reach out even to their bullies. Alicia self-defines as a "Villainess", and that means she must be aloof and standoffish at all times. That said, Liz does seem genuine in her attempts to connect, it's not just lip service, the evidence is that she really thinks about the things Alicia says, but it feels like Alicia is so caught up in her own story she's not prepared to see that. She's generally a kind and considerate person despite her act, but she wants to be Liz's enemy (despite being tasked with guiding her) because it's something she "should" do as a villainess. It makes her a bit less sympathetic really.
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Joe Mello
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2317
Location: Online Terminal
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Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:15 am
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MFrontier wrote: | I know Alicia claimed Liz might secretly hate her but I feel like she's pretty much genuine in her intentions to get along with Alicia but that she unconsciously channels her negative emotions in ways she doesn't expect like into her groupies or unconsciously controlling Alicia and not the thug who could attack her.
[...]
I'm curious why there are some students who aren't brainwashed while most are. Like Carol seems like a genuinely nice person who is immune to the effects of Liz and doesn't seem to understand why people are acting this way. |
Is it possible that there is more nuance to Liz's power? Or that there's another force that exudes similar power but in more subtle ways?
I've been waiting for the Big Twist to one of these is that the true antagonist is The Game Itself and everything has been happening according to its will. After all, even the PC Hero who can change the world at-will is limited in what they can truly do by the rules of the Game's universe. I doubt this would be the series to do that, but being a villainess that transcends its own world and literally breaks the game it's in would go down in history.
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4473
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 11:58 am
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MFrontier wrote: | Alicia entering the Heroine's class like a boss!
I know Alicia claimed Liz might secretly hate her but I feel like she's pretty much genuine in her intentions to get along with Alicia but that she unconsciously channels her negative emotions in ways she doesn't expect like into her groupies or unconsciously controlling Alicia and not the thug who could attack her.
Will Alicia and Liz ever get along? Are they forever destined to be rivals? I mean, that's what Alicia wants, but is she being too hard on Liz when it seems like Liz is genuinely trying to connect with her? Although I get that Liz is the type of girl that Alicia hates, but it seems like a part of her refuses to understand or meet Liz halfway.
If Alicia is going to entertain the idea she has romantic feelings for Duke, then she's going to act on them in a way befitting a Villainess. Even if she still acts like a maiden in love otherwise.
A Villainess Condemnation event! And an attempt to frame Alicia in a way she can respect!
I'm curious why there are some students who aren't brainwashed while most are. Like Carol seems like a genuinely nice person who is immune to the effects of Liz and doesn't seem to understand why people are acting this way.
Alicia and Duke being open and honest with each other might be the best thing to happen to their relationship.
Alicia has gained a fangirl and Liz has a hater!
What a surprise that Will is Duke's uncle! Even if they'd kind of been spoiling it the whole time... |
its was more or less too predictable regarding will! i mean the opening theme more or less spoiled it.
also i have a feeling that its NOT going to be liz, but it will be jill & mel that is gonna be the real obstacle regarding any advancements of any romantic relationships for alicia & prince duke. ESPECIALLY THE LATTER whose fangirl towards the point on having a yuri like attitude for alicia reminds me way too much of the MC from I'M IN LOVE WITH THE VILLAINESS!
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Thesarum
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:22 pm
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Is Liz just offloading her negative emotions onto others here? She maintains her self-image by literally purging emotions that are inconsistent with it (though this isn't a perfect process because the occurrences seem to be getting more frequent and stronger) but they have to go somewhere, and unlucky Jane is the conduit this time.
It is indeed interesting that Duke was so quickly on to what was happening with Gill. Thought he's suspicious of Liz in general, so probably treats all of her interactions with others as suspect until he can confirm otherwise.
I'm fairly convinced still that Liz has no idea that she's doing either of these things. She still seems genuine in her desire both to acomplish her goals and ideals and to learn and improve herself. I think her request to Gill for example wasn't cold manipulation (which I think Duke saw it as), but a genuine desire to get to know him and learn how to help his home village better. Unfortunately for her, she's not really able to "genuinely" desire other people's cooperation though, doing so robs them of their own will. Something I think would horrify her if she stopped for a moment to think about it.
Alicia had a great episode though! Limited insane obsession with being Liz's enemy and being universally hated, more of the "haughty but kind and sorta inspirational" good stuff.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18507
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:53 pm
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Review wrote: | • Wild speculation #2: The world (or a similar outlying force) is rejecting what has happened and forcing the story back toward how things should go. |
Even though we haven't seen any indication of it so far, I'm leaning towards this explanation. It's a similar approach to what Villainess Level 99 did earlier this year, but instead of being more obtrusive (like in 99), this could be a case where the story only corrects if the characters' independent actions go beyond a certain breaking point.
Either way, this is a pretty big twist for how late in the season it is. Curious to see how the season's going to end with this in play.
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4473
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:56 am
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Key wrote: |
Review wrote: | • Wild speculation #2: The world (or a similar outlying force) is rejecting what has happened and forcing the story back toward how things should go. |
Even though we haven't seen any indication of it so far, I'm leaning towards this explanation. It's a similar approach to what Villainess Level 99 did earlier this year, but instead of being more obtrusive (like in 99), this could be a case where the story only corrects if the characters' independent actions go beyond a certain breaking point.
Either way, this is a pretty big twist for how late in the season it is. Curious to see how the season's going to end with this in play. |
i highly doubt speculation 2 is the reason! its already been done in level 99 and there is no indication that this series is using the same scenario!
while it is unlikely, its possible duke might be faking his memory loos to get alicia to admit his feeling for her instead of going down the obvious tsundere route whenever she interacts with him!
well either way, it appears this is probably how that scene in the opening theme song ends up coming to pass!
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