Forum - View topicNEWS: Japanese Industry Launches Global Anti-Piracy Effort
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
Author | Message | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
Er, ISPs are not the same as Flickr or YouTube. That said, it all looks rather horrible and totalitarian. Ouch. |
||||
LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||
A pretty low blow doing that, bringing that particular internet meme in. But let's go past the fear your trying to cause and look at the points raised, youtubes, jangos and any other company that actualy licenses the rights to particular shows, songs, whatever will be fine. The internet is not a right given unto an individual either morally or legally and as it is right now must be purchased for access in some way. The internet is but one way to get information that you so expertly listed. But there is nothing that guarantees you access to the internet, period. As you know your ISP can cut off service to you for any reason, at anytime, they can stop and take down the hosting abilities of websites already without trial. So in some aspects nothing new has occurred. And you show little about how our own government works. Sure our president can send a delegation and accept a treaty proposal, but our senate has to agree to it, we can either vote down or even gasp change aspects of it to keep our values in it. But there is one thing I can agree with in this, is that there needs to be law and order, as it's been shown that responsibility has been something of a trait to avoid for awhile, now they are taking responsibility for you in this proposal. As you speak to me of the freedom you stand for, for that there must be law, you have to be responsible for what you do, as without it there is tyranny. And I'd much rather respect those willing to jump through the "hoops" to ask for permission to do something then someone who comes up excuses as to why they don't. Edit: Also some background on proposal above, started in 2007, more countries joined in 2008, and this proposal is still under discussion with estimates into 2010-ish. And is a Voluntary agreement, i.e. it's non-binding and if the U.S. were to agree bring forth the Senate. For further info here, http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2008/october/tradoc_140836.11.08.pdf Last edited by LordRedhand on Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
||||
pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
|
|||
I am so embarrassed. For some reason... I suppose reading before starting my first "morning" coffee (strange schedule), I completely missed your post. I appreciate your comments and just feel dumb that I didn't notice a new post above LordRedhand's. Mea culpa for seeming to ignore completely what you said, which of course I agree with, having redundantly said the same thing . Also, dtm42, I could be mistaken, but I believe the action provides for all content providers to police content, not just ISP's. The entertainment industry has been trying to implement that for some time, but was turned back every time because it simply isn't feasible. I'll read and respond to LordRedHand, but wanted to get this posted ASAP to acknowledge my my oversight. |
||||
pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
|
|||
I don't see it as creating fear, but awareness, of something that requires response and action from the public. The one fact of how secretive the participants are are being, to the point of watermarking copies of the proposal, makes it obvious they aren't working in the public's interest. There is no "national security" issue here. Invoking that concept to protect secret, international deliberations intended only for the benefit of a commercial industry is a disgusting abuse of power. As an aside, even being mostly conservative, I supported Obama enough to give him a chance, even still up to this point when he hasn't really accomplished much beyond smiley speeches and his proposals are pretty scary to a capitalist. No more. He is the wolf in sheep's clothing, period. I will save the Jefferson quotes about vigilance being required to preserve one's freedom. That's what the Internet is for... which by the way scares the hell out of a lot of powerful people, not just the Chinese, because it gives people access to "too much information". If you can't see the significance of the threat involved by this type of activity, and are fine with a police state as long as it brings about complete enforcement of every law devised by humans and put on the books--many of which are only there to preserve a cultural or economic status quo against change--then nothing else I could say would make any difference. |
||||
LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||
Your causing fear simply because a) the proposal is not done yet. b) the system has been agreed to be a voluntary system for nations to join. c) Our Senate would have to agree to the provisions of such a proposal, as would most assemblies in western (and eastern) democracies. and finally d) most of the things you list as being potentially taken away, you can do all of them without the internet. The internet is a tool, nothing more.
So how is this relevant again, I thought you would like countries to form their own decisions without outside influence and well this is something being proposed by the industry, in Japan, so according to the above argument you would be wrong to influence them not to do it as much as mine to do, assuming of course you hold that no nation or outside force should influence the decisions of another nation. I don't hold such relativistic notions. As an aside I'm a Democrat, and I wish Obama would take a stronger stand on some issues, I see the beginnings of the "Change We Can Believe In." So where do you think that put's me in our little debate? |
||||
pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
|
|||
No... the Internet has done more than any politician since the Founding Fathers in enabling freedom of speech and communication, as well as creativity, for the human race. You are naive if you think the world works in the way they taught you in civics class. This is pure politics, being done in secret to create a fait accompli before people can find out about it. The technicalities of approval are just window dressing after it's all been decided behind closed doors. Sure, there will be some minor changes, because, unfortunately, politicians have to appear to be earning their salary. But don't doubt it, the entertainment industry will have spent millions in preparing all the proper marketing material to spin it favorably to legislators and the public via their lobbyists and the liberal mass media. Much of it will sound just like you, accusing me of being Chicken Little. Obama has been extremely secretive about his own roots, both personal and political (of which there are admittedly few in terms of experience). But his first cabinet appointment ended any misconception created by him as being a populist, anti-politics, new age President. He is a pure politician, raised in Chicago politics, and is the current penultimate example of the species in the U.S. My own current projection in terms of actual accomplishment is that he will end up being the uber-Jimmy-Carter. Now... you have the last word. |
||||
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
Are you two finished scaremongering or should I let this go on for another half-dozen 1400-word posts about how we should all be super-spooked about a scary new piece of legislation that hasn't been reported on at all by any reputable news source or even mentioned by anyone who's trustworthy?
Oh, here we go, this is why you're making things up and holding a flashlight under your face. OOOHH SCARY OBAMA HE'S GONNA TAKE AWAY YOUR INTERNET BECAUSE HE'S SECRET COMMIE MUSLIM This site is not your personal political blog, it's an anime site. The Japanese corporations defending their copyrights have nothing to do with whatever bullsh*t paranoid conservative fantasy scenarios you'd like to peddle here. Surely Stormfront or Teampalin would love your input. |
||||
LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||
No I actually am calling on more than just civics, try history, look up League of Nations, it says hello, something we participated in making and that we did not join. There is a system in place, and one that is democratically elected by the people, so we will get our voice if what is in this proposal is actually going to be what comes out of negotiations and is not some proposal brought forward by a participant in the group and being taken and labeled as the proposal. So ye of little faith, why do you put so much of it in the internet when we already had the freedoms and creativity without it? I'm sorry but I refuse to hook up to your joy-box, or your black hole were everything gets crushed into being the same, and the thing is Obama is our president and he must make our nation one of laws again, so that is why there are some actions taken I disagree with but they must be confronted, there wil be things he will do that will dissatisfy me and you, but to expect perfection is something the internet has done to you, you should come down, and remember to breath, and step back a bit. You bring this in not to inform but to distract, your trying to cause panic and have cynicism about the process which our founding fathers made, what can the internet guarantee you? It guarantees nothing, any thing on it can be fabricated, distrust spread easily, and swallowed believed just the same, creativity is dying for shows, songs and other entertainment becomes the same, not changing ever and being forgotten over time in a distribution claimed to preserve it. Information can be found yes but alone it's not enough and trusting someone who says look at this! is foolish at best and dangerous at worst. You proved that by not even taking the time to look at the facts presented and then casting about doom and gloom when presented. The internet isn't freedom, it's another chain that must be overcome in this world, as it has strayed from it intentions and become another distraction, stopping us and trapping us in things that we must do. It's not bringing us together, it's separating us more into smaller and smaller cliques and groups. So you are talking to a person who is perfectly fine with going without the internet for extended periods of time, yet I can the information I need, the internet is a tool out of many, nothing more. |
||||
pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
|
|||
Well, if the EFF and PC World, so far, are disreputable, as well as organizations that have been actively applying the FOIA against this process, then you're right. The fact that MSNBC hasn't reported it doesn't make it false. The points are logical extensions of existing policies in place or pursued by the entertainment industry in any case. I'm aware that the political comments are off topic, sorry. To be clear, however, I didn't say anything you claim I said. |
||||
Ktimene's Lover
Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
|
|||
My speech in public speaking class about this stuff would be incomplete without mentioning this.
|
||||
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
||
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group