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NEWS: Japanese Industry Launches Global Anti-Piracy Effort


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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:58 am Reply with quote
pparker wrote:
* * That ISPs have to proactively police copyright...


Er, ISPs are not the same as Flickr or YouTube.

That said, it all looks rather horrible and totalitarian. Ouch.
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:26 am Reply with quote
pparker wrote:
Not to ignore you, LordRedHand, but I so love it when the irony of timing becomes simply overwhelming...


Secret ACTA Internet chapter leaked: Global DMCA and 'three strikes'
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/20233.cfm
Google (for more)
http://www.google.com/search?q=acta+internet


My favorite for summarizing the results of this proposed and secret action (emphasis mine):

"The internet chapter of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a secret copyright treaty whose text Obama's administration refused to disclose due to "national security" concerns, has leaked. It's bad. It says:

* * That ISPs have to proactively police copyright on user-contributed material. This means that it will be impossible to run a service like Flickr or YouTube or Blogger, since hiring enough lawyers to ensure that the mountain of material uploaded every second isn't infringing will exceed any hope of profitability.

* * That ISPs have to cut off the Internet access of accused copyright infringers or face liability. This means that your entire family could be denied to the internet -- and hence to civic participation, health information, education, communications, and their means of earning a living -- if one member is accused of copyright infringement, without access to a trial or counsel.

* * That the whole world must adopt US-style "notice-and-takedown" rules that require ISPs to remove any material that is accused -- again, without evidence or trial -- of infringing copyright. This has proved a disaster in the US and other countries, where it provides an easy means of censoring material, just by accusing it of infringing copyright. (I will add that this is also used as an anti-competition business tactic -- pp)

* * Mandatory prohibitions on breaking DRM, even if doing so for a lawful purpose (e.g., to make a work available to disabled people; for archival preservation; because you own the copyrighted work that is locked up with DRM)

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/03/secret-copyright-tre.html


But this statement cuts through immediately to the insanity, and the danger, of it:

"The proposal is based on the assumption that ‘intellectual property rights’... trump personal privacy, data protection, probable cause, and lots of other important principles in western democracies."

http://torrentfreak.com/proposed-treaty-turns-internet-into-a-virtual-police-state-080524/

One purpose exists for it, and that is to theoretically increase revenue for entertainment companies. If you ever needed an example of short-sighted, bad intentions toward mankind for personal gain without regard for consequences, this is it. The net effect of this would be to enable and enact a system of harassment and control virtually the same as the Chinese censorship system. The agreements and technology would all be in place to surveil and to penalize Internet users without due process of law, directly counter to fundamental rights of U.S. citizens.

This isn't proposed legislation, meaning that the public are not being allowed to participate its formulation in any fashion. Hell, they aren't even being told about it. The participants are the entertainment industry and the law enforcement organizations under the executive branches of government, with the full blessing of our current U.S. administration. Exercise of The Freedom of Information Act revealed less than 15% of the text of the agreement, and none of substance, because those involved have gone to great lengths to keep the entire document and the process completely secret. I will be most interested to see if it even reaches the front page of newspapers or is suppressed in the general media. I predict that even if it does, it will be downplayed and spun in so many ways that the public will never understand the implications.


When Orwell wrote 1984 and Huxley wrote Brave New World, they were prescient and thoroughly understood human nature. While speculative in nature, the works factually represent how far human beings will go in the wrong direction given the chance and the capability. China is moving precisely in that direction by the book, and of course Orwell already had Nazi Germany, Japan and the USSR as examples (which makes Huxley all the more impressive in extrapolating the history of oppression into a future, total global context). The authors had to envision or assume technology capable of enabling the societal and governmental conditions. The enabling technology has emerged. We can spy on every human being visually, we can monitor all communications including personal speech, we have governmental mechanisms in place to bypass due process of law and representative legislation. We have the means to enable a police state across the globe. All that remains is the will and the resources to use them, and modern governments have plenty of each. Recent events show that printing enough money is no problem.

I just find it too ironic that the supposed upholders of the rights of artists, who have historically been at the vanguard of freedom, are the very people attempting to destroy it. Obviously, they are lying about their true materialist intentions. And if anyone thinks this is an overreaction, I just have to remind you that the vast majority of humans thought Hitler was justified in his actions as late as 1939 and that Stalin died of old age having murdered more humans than anyone else in history. We humans have a bad habit of repeating mistakes and avoiding confrontation. Unless we get smart enough, soon enough, it's only a matter of time until we make that a big one that takes us beyond recovery.


A pretty low blow doing that, bringing that particular internet meme in.

But let's go past the fear your trying to cause and look at the points raised, youtubes, jangos and any other company that actualy licenses the rights to particular shows, songs, whatever will be fine.

The internet is not a right given unto an individual either morally or legally and as it is right now must be purchased for access in some way. The internet is but one way to get information that you so expertly listed. But there is nothing that guarantees you access to the internet, period. As you know your ISP can cut off service to you for any reason, at anytime, they can stop and take down the hosting abilities of websites already without trial. So in some aspects nothing new has occurred.

And you show little about how our own government works. Sure our president can send a delegation and accept a treaty proposal, but our senate has to agree to it, we can either vote down or even gasp change aspects of it to keep our values in it.

But there is one thing I can agree with in this, is that there needs to be law and order, as it's been shown that responsibility has been something of a trait to avoid for awhile, now they are taking responsibility for you in this proposal. As you speak to me of the freedom you stand for, for that there must be law, you have to be responsible for what you do, as without it there is tyranny. And I'd much rather respect those willing to jump through the "hoops" to ask for permission to do something then someone who comes up excuses as to why they don't.

Edit: Also some background on proposal above, started in 2007, more countries joined in 2008, and this proposal is still under discussion with estimates into 2010-ish. And is a Voluntary agreement, i.e. it's non-binding and if the U.S. were to agree bring forth the Senate.

For further info here,

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2008/october/tradoc_140836.11.08.pdf


Last edited by LordRedhand on Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 1185
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:36 am Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
[a lot before I did...]

I am so embarrassed. For some reason... I suppose reading before starting my first "morning" coffee (strange schedule), I completely missed your post. I appreciate your comments and just feel dumb that I didn't notice a new post above LordRedhand's.

Mea culpa for seeming to ignore completely what you said, which of course I agree with, having redundantly said the same thing Embarassed.

Also, dtm42, I could be mistaken, but I believe the action provides for all content providers to police content, not just ISP's. The entertainment industry has been trying to implement that for some time, but was turned back every time because it simply isn't feasible.

I'll read and respond to LordRedHand, but wanted to get this posted ASAP to acknowledge my my oversight.
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:53 am Reply with quote
LordRedhand wrote:
But let's go past the fear your trying to cause

I don't see it as creating fear, but awareness, of something that requires response and action from the public. The one fact of how secretive the participants are are being, to the point of watermarking copies of the proposal, makes it obvious they aren't working in the public's interest. There is no "national security" issue here. Invoking that concept to protect secret, international deliberations intended only for the benefit of a commercial industry is a disgusting abuse of power.

As an aside, even being mostly conservative, I supported Obama enough to give him a chance, even still up to this point when he hasn't really accomplished much beyond smiley speeches and his proposals are pretty scary to a capitalist. No more. He is the wolf in sheep's clothing, period.

I will save the Jefferson quotes about vigilance being required to preserve one's freedom. That's what the Internet is for... which by the way scares the hell out of a lot of powerful people, not just the Chinese, because it gives people access to "too much information".

If you can't see the significance of the threat involved by this type of activity, and are fine with a police state as long as it brings about complete enforcement of every law devised by humans and put on the books--many of which are only there to preserve a cultural or economic status quo against change--then nothing else I could say would make any difference.
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:07 am Reply with quote
Your causing fear simply because a) the proposal is not done yet. b) the system has been agreed to be a voluntary system for nations to join. c) Our Senate would have to agree to the provisions of such a proposal, as would most assemblies in western (and eastern) democracies. and finally d) most of the things you list as being potentially taken away, you can do all of them without the internet. The internet is a tool, nothing more.

So how is this relevant again, I thought you would like countries to form their own decisions without outside influence and well this is something being proposed by the industry, in Japan, so according to the above argument you would be wrong to influence them not to do it as much as mine to do, assuming of course you hold that no nation or outside force should influence the decisions of another nation. I don't hold such relativistic notions.

As an aside I'm a Democrat, and I wish Obama would take a stronger stand on some issues, I see the beginnings of the "Change We Can Believe In." So where do you think that put's me in our little debate?
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:41 am Reply with quote
LordRedhand wrote:
...The internet is a tool, nothing more...

No... the Internet has done more than any politician since the Founding Fathers in enabling freedom of speech and communication, as well as creativity, for the human race.

You are naive if you think the world works in the way they taught you in civics class. This is pure politics, being done in secret to create a fait accompli before people can find out about it. The technicalities of approval are just window dressing after it's all been decided behind closed doors. Sure, there will be some minor changes, because, unfortunately, politicians have to appear to be earning their salary. But don't doubt it, the entertainment industry will have spent millions in preparing all the proper marketing material to spin it favorably to legislators and the public via their lobbyists and the liberal mass media. Much of it will sound just like you, accusing me of being Chicken Little.

Obama has been extremely secretive about his own roots, both personal and political (of which there are admittedly few in terms of experience). But his first cabinet appointment ended any misconception created by him as being a populist, anti-politics, new age President. He is a pure politician, raised in Chicago politics, and is the current penultimate example of the species in the U.S. My own current projection in terms of actual accomplishment is that he will end up being the uber-Jimmy-Carter.

Now... you have the last word.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:09 am Reply with quote
Are you two finished scaremongering or should I let this go on for another half-dozen 1400-word posts about how we should all be super-spooked about a scary new piece of legislation that hasn't been reported on at all by any reputable news source or even mentioned by anyone who's trustworthy?

Quote:

Obama has been extremely secretive about his own roots, both personal and political (of which there are admittedly few in terms of experience). But his first cabinet appointment ended any misconception created by him as being a populist, anti-politics, new age President. He is a pure politician, raised in Chicago politics, and is the current penultimate example of the species in the U.S. My own current projection in terms of actual accomplishment is that he will end up being the uber-Jimmy-Carter.

Now... you have the last word.


Oh, here we go, this is why you're making things up and holding a flashlight under your face. OOOHH SCARY OBAMA HE'S GONNA TAKE AWAY YOUR INTERNET BECAUSE HE'S SECRET COMMIE MUSLIM

This site is not your personal political blog, it's an anime site. The Japanese corporations defending their copyrights have nothing to do with whatever bullsh*t paranoid conservative fantasy scenarios you'd like to peddle here. Surely Stormfront or Teampalin would love your input.
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:12 am Reply with quote
pparker wrote:
LordRedhand wrote:
...The internet is a tool, nothing more...

No... the Internet has done more than any politician since the Founding Fathers in enabling freedom of speech and communication, as well as creativity, for the human race.

You are naive if you think the world works in the way they taught you in civics class. This is pure politics, being done in secret to create a fait accompli before people can find out about it. The technicalities of approval are just window dressing after it's all been decided behind closed doors. Sure, there will be some minor changes, because, unfortunately, politicians have to appear to be earning their salary. But don't doubt it, the entertainment industry will have spent millions in preparing all the proper marketing material to spin it favorably to legislators and the public via their lobbyists and the liberal mass media. Much of it will sound just like you, accusing me of being Chicken Little.

Obama has been extremely secretive about his own roots, both personal and political (of which there are admittedly few in terms of experience). But his first cabinet appointment ended any misconception created by him as being a populist, anti-politics, new age President. He is a pure politician, raised in Chicago politics, and is the current penultimate example of the species in the U.S. My own current projection in terms of actual accomplishment is that he will end up being the uber-Jimmy-Carter.

Now... you have the last word.


No I actually am calling on more than just civics, try history, look up League of Nations, it says hello, something we participated in making and that we did not join. There is a system in place, and one that is democratically elected by the people, so we will get our voice if what is in this proposal is actually going to be what comes out of negotiations and is not some proposal brought forward by a participant in the group and being taken and labeled as the proposal.

So ye of little faith, why do you put so much of it in the internet when we already had the freedoms and creativity without it? I'm sorry but I refuse to hook up to your joy-box, or your black hole were everything gets crushed into being the same, and the thing is Obama is our president and he must make our nation one of laws again, so that is why there are some actions taken I disagree with but they must be confronted, there wil be things he will do that will dissatisfy me and you, but to expect perfection is something the internet has done to you, you should come down, and remember to breath, and step back a bit.

You bring this in not to inform but to distract, your trying to cause panic and have cynicism about the process which our founding fathers made, what can the internet guarantee you? It guarantees nothing, any thing on it can be fabricated, distrust spread easily, and swallowed believed just the same, creativity is dying for shows, songs and other entertainment becomes the same, not changing ever and being forgotten over time in a distribution claimed to preserve it.

Information can be found yes but alone it's not enough and trusting someone who says look at this! is foolish at best and dangerous at worst. You proved that by not even taking the time to look at the facts presented and then casting about doom and gloom when presented. The internet isn't freedom, it's another chain that must be overcome in this world, as it has strayed from it intentions and become another distraction, stopping us and trapping us in things that we must do. It's not bringing us together, it's separating us more into smaller and smaller cliques and groups. So you are talking to a person who is perfectly fine with going without the internet for extended periods of time, yet I can the information I need, the internet is a tool out of many, nothing more.
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:03 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
...even mentioned by anyone who's trustworthy?

Well, if the EFF and PC World, so far, are disreputable, as well as organizations that have been actively applying the FOIA against this process, then you're right. The fact that MSNBC hasn't reported it doesn't make it false. The points are logical extensions of existing policies in place or pursued by the entertainment industry in any case.

I'm aware that the political comments are off topic, sorry. To be clear, however, I didn't say anything you claim I said.
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Ktimene's Lover



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:56 am Reply with quote
My speech in public speaking class about this stuff would be incomplete without mentioning this.
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