Forum - View topicAnswerman - Discs of Steel
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
merr
Posts: 477 |
|
|||||||||
This sort of thing is highly illegal in every developed nation, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Sailor Moon situation.
You really have zero clue of how publicly traded businesses work. Toei doesn't HAVE the luxury of getting off on doing things GATSU thinks are mean, because, guess what, they have shareholders to think about. Toei is not a person. They are a company. You keep assigning emotions and motivations to them, which, if you had even basic understanding of the world, you would realize are totally absurd. Unless you have some special insight into the inner workings of Toei's boardroom, you should just stop, because at this pointing you're only making yourself look liked a bitter ignoramus. Their business decisions may not make sense to you, but they're still business decisions, and they're rooted in something other than the pettiness and irrationality you keep alluding to. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15385 |
|
|||||||||
|
merr:
So, again, how would allowing Sailor Moon to be pirated be in the interest of their shareholders?
Business decisions involve the exchange of currency, not the deliberate avoidance thereof. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
PurpleWarrior13
 Posts: 2027 |
|
|||||||||
|
Towers, the company in Mexico that got the Sailor Moon license in 2011, confirmed in a podcast interview that Naoko Takeuchi is deeply specific about how the Sailor Moon property is handled. She now has to approve everything from package design and the DVDs themselves to every single piece of merchandise like (in our case) the Great-Eastern Animation merchandise, the Hot Topic t-shirts, and of course the show itself's presentation, which is why Towers couldn't release their new Spanish-dubbed versions of the theme songs. The approval process made such an envevor impractical.
Sailor Moon has been re-licensed around the world, and continues to be. The show just got re-licensed in France and Germany, and is currently being re-released in those territories. There are other territories that remain to be licensed such as Spain (the anime at least, they have the manga back). Kodansha, Toei, and Takeuchi have been focusing on limited territories at a time. It makes sense for English-speaking territories to be saved until later. It's the biggest market, so it has to be done carefully. It's not like we're being completely ignored. We have the manga, the merchandise, the T-shirts, the costumes, the action figures (both the Japanese versions and our own from GE), streams of the new series, and an artbook. The anime (the original) will likely come in due time. Some fans have gone overboard with Takeuchi's approval though. Some interpreted the Brazillian licensors' comments when they couldn't redub the show itself (and why they started with the S season) is that Takeuchi wouldn't allow any more redubbing. That's just not true. It's a bit more difficult than the average series, but not impossible, as is shown with the redubs in the territories I mentioned in a previous post (also according to KAZE, it's possible Stars will finally be dubbed in French if the sales are good, which they have been so far). Toei's attitude toward piracy and Sailor Moon is no different than any other series. It's true that Sailor Moon has always been a very pirated series (mostly because of the difficultness of getting it properly legal), but so has Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, and Pretty Cure. Heck, there was a time a couple years ago when they were policing Sailor Moon on YouTube like a hawk. It was difficult for a Sailor Moon video to be on YouTube, especially a complete episode, without it being taken down by Toei. They've relaxed some, but it's clear they know it's an issue, at least some people there. Lots of anime are pirated if they aren't available legally. I'd even say MOST are. One more reason I have confidence that Cinedigm will get the home video/streaming license (Toei would still have the other licenses) is also that they have Zatch Bell, which we all know also had licensing problems (that we didn't even know were resolved). If they can get Zatch Bell, Sailor Moon shouldn't be that much of a problem. This is just a guess on my part though. I could be surprised. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15385 |
|
|||||||||
|
Purple: So, basically her high-maintenance attitude lost her a ton of a money to bootleggers. Brilliant.
Yes, and that's that they're ok with it, as long as they can make a quick buck off the hacked and edited versions, which is why they also looked the other way on DBZ and One Piece being traded and torrented for the better part of a decade.
Exactly, because they just want that Japanese/4Kids money to the point that they don't even care if the creators get screwed out of royalties. What do you not get about them that you keep defending their behavior? They're greedy and self-serving, but in a short-sighted way-much like many corporations nowadays.
Yes, but you can still find unauthorized copies of it everywhere else. They only want to create the impression that they still care.
Yes, but only a few Japanese licensors are willing to accept those lost sales just because they didn't get their way. Toei is one of them. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
PurpleWarrior13
Posts: 2027 |
|
|||||||||
|
Naoko is very protective of her creation. There is nothing wrong with that. The show's still coming out, and so is merchandise. She doesn't even appear to be that difficult to work with. The show is still being marketed in Italy as a major kids brand (especially a couple years ago). She still makes money, but she does so in a controlled way so that her creation (which she is very protective of) is handled correctly.
You have no proof that Toei is purposefully letting Sailor Moon or ANY series be pirated. It's only a guess or assumption (and it crosses into conspiracy theory territory). Actually, the fact that they once were very strictly policing the series is evidence to the contrary, if ever so slight, but at least it's something (and it's not some crazy reason like they wanted us to "think" something. Once again, Toei is not a person, and you have no evidence to your claim). In that case, Sailor Moon was a bit unusual. You can find almost any unlicensed anime series on YouTube, and even some that are available legally here (in some cases, even free). All are from many different companies, not just Toei. I'd say every company that distributes anime has a long list of titles you can easily pirate. Look at all the websites that upload anime content for free (illegal) viewing. Each and every one of those websites has a REALLY large catalog of titles. Pretty much any anime you would ever care to watch is easily available for free viewing on the internet. Some are policed better than others. That's just a fact. Sailor Moon is pretty far from being abnormal. Actually, you can find almost any TV series or movie period illegally online fairly easy. Are major Hollywood studios letting their properties be pirated on purpose? Look, I'm not saying Toei is a perfect company. They've made many mistakes, but they've also done many good things. In Sailor Moon's case, a lot of it is up to the creator, not Kodansha or Toei. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15385 |
|
|||||||||
|
Purple:
Not really, because shutting down a couple Youtube streams don't stop bootlegs from being sold on Ebay or torrents being available elsewhere.
Yes, but not every unauthorized stream is from a hit title which would make money here, but which is being deliberately denied that opportunity.
Apparently, HBO is with Game of Thrones. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
|
|||||||||
It seems to be a hobby. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||||||
And fairly uncommon ... it was more popular for financial firms to sell debt of other firms to customers while betting on the collapse of that firm. Mind, that also had a tendency to involve illegal trading, but since the expected fines were a small fraction of the expected payoff, the risk of enforcement of the law was just an accepted cost of doing business that way. None of which has much of anything to do with anime, which even in Japan really is not a massive corporate player. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15385 |
|
|||||||||
|
agila:
Not true.
Toei is, though. They're a joke here, but they're as big as Disney over there. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
PurpleWarrior13
Posts: 2027 |
|
|||||||||
A couple YouTube streams? They PURGED YouTube of Sailor Moon for a long time. SailorMoonCenter had to keep starting new channels because their old ones kept getting suspended before they were suspended again in a matter of weeks.
This all includes hit titles. You can find full episodes of highly popular anime like Death Note, Pokémon, Naruto, Bleach, and Dragon Ball on YouTube, as well as complete movies like Akira, The Girl Who Lept Through Time, and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzuiyma, among countless other examples in both categories (and yes, I double checked every one of those examples just now). Oh yes, you can (now) find Sailor Moon episodes too (although they aren't quite as plentiful as they used to be)...
Actually, the purpose of creating HBO GO was to help combat it, and they're also expanding on making their shows better available worldwide within a week for the same reason. The director of the show is against piracy, even though he says it helps give the series buzz. Either way, it's only one example. Hollywood studios are notoriously trying to crack down on it, which is why they supported SOPA. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15385 |
|
|||||||||
|
Purple:
The point is that it's still available illegally in enough places with few options for legit buyers.
Yes, but again, those are titles which are generally available through legal means, too.
The purpose for it was to pay lip-service to people who wanted to see it online and on their tablets, but they still choose to be dicks to customers who are willing to meet them even halfway.
No, they aren't. I still read about people who either do the unauthorized stream or hack thing, because they can't get HBO in their countries.
They supported SOPA, because they want to look for any reason to intimidate people who dare to buy used copies of a film or tv show, because that's where they're really losing money. Not that the money they do make goes back to people who actually work in Hollywood, but that's a different rant. The piracy thing is just a cover. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
PurpleWarrior13
Posts: 2027 |
|
|||||||||
And how is this any different from any other anime, whether it's available legally or not?
You can also find titles that are NOT available legally on YouTube and countless other sites. Also, neither Haruhi or Girl who Lept Through Time are available legally (other than out-of-print DVDs).
How about both reasons? http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2013/03/04/how-hbo-is-protecting-game-of-thrones-from-online-piracy-in-2013/
See above. At least they're acknowledging it. Whether they've been doing a good job about it is another matter.
Got any direct proof for that? I'm not saying Hollywood studios are perfect, but when you go on bringing up these conspiracy theories on how they're doing something as a "cover," it's really hard to take such a thing seriously... |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
GATSU
Posts: 15385 |
|
|||||||||
|
Purple:
Again, it's a title which could be available legally, but the owner prefers it be pirated, because the management is on a power trip.
I said generally.
I don't see how HBO is protecting the most pirated anything from piracy when they openly cop to it, and don't care.
They're acknowledging it, because they think
No, but if it's anything like the music and publishing industry, then it probably applies. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
PurpleWarrior13
Posts: 2027 |
|
|||||||||
Once again, do you have any proof for that at all? Or is this just another assumption? The series is difficult to license. That's been clear for years now. It's only been possible to license again since 2010 when Toei offered the 200 refurbished episodes at the MIPTV Media Market in France. Allegedly, the series is difficult to license because of it's price tag, and Naoko Takeuchi holding approval over pretty much everything. Also, it's very clear that the powers-that-be are focusing on LIMITED MARKETS AT A TIME. The series hasn't been re-launched in more than a couple different markets at once, beginning with Italy in 2010, and continuing on with France and Germany in 2013.
It's possible they may only care to a limited extent, but they've still acknowledged the issue at least. There is no evidence that they outright don't care though. Policing piracy is very difficult if not outright impossible, especially for a show like that. Also once again, HBO (or any company) is not a person. There might be some key people there who do care, others that don't, and some inbetween.
Even if the motion picture industry did look down upon used DVDs/Blu-rays (which they probably do), it doesn't mean they don't care about piracy. There's no proof that their support for SOPA had anything to do with used movies (which would make no sense anyway). |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||||||||
|
Game of Thrones was the only thing I ever pirated that ever led to an actual warning letter from my internet provider, so I find the assertion that HBO doesn't care about piracy to be ludicrous. They care more about providing incentives for expensive subscription packages (that have to be added to already expensive cable plans) than they do about making any particular show more accessible, but they certainly discourage piracy.
PurpleWarrior13 has explained the lack of a new Sailor Moon license in the US very well. I would like to see some sources for the international stuff (because I'm unfamiliar with the French and Italian anime markets), but I found all those tidbits really interesting. I'm not even a Sailor Moon fan, but I hold out hope for the fans' sake that Sailor Moon will eventually be re-licensed and redubbed in its entirety in English. Perhaps after the new season finally comes out. Patience is a virtue when it comes to all things Sailor Moon, it seems. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group