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ANNCast - Critical Mass II: The Seasoning

Says who? You? Tolkien? Why should I, or more importantly, Kawakami Minori, give a flying fudge about that? He's not writing LotR, he's not writing Wheel of Time, he's not writing any-other-damn-thing but his goddamn story.

You are the one laying down entirely arbitrary restrictions on creativity for no other reason than that "its always been done that way"

Sure, Tolkien "wrote the book" on fantasy, good for him. So [expletive] what? When was it decided that Tolkienian fantasy was the only acceptable form? Show me that clause in the contract people have to sign before being allowed to write. Oh wait, there is no such thing.

I really expected better from you dtm, I am, no kidding, incredibly disappointed in you here. You don't have to like Horizon, but I damn well expected you to defend it existing as a creative work. That you aren't, that you are actually arguing that there are distinct RULES as to what types of fictional characters can exist together...well, thats just shitty of you my friend.

You are such a BULL SHITTER Fencedude5609. dtm42 has outargued you, but your stubbornness and pride does not let you see that. It has become clearer that it is a complete waste of time to try to have a constructive discussion with you.

Hate me if you want, but I do not think I am alone with this opinion.

The reasons humanity became this way was covered in Owari no Chronicle, the Light Novel series that covers the "AHEAD" portion of Kawakami Minoru's universe.

The difference between LotR and Horizon? Orcs, dwarves, humans and elves are all logical beings in a Fantasy work and it is further logical to see them inhabit the same world. Heck, Tolkien literally wrote the book on that. Whereas an incubus has no business being in the same work as a robot, and an angel has no business sharing screentime with a racist Indian caricature.

angelmcazares wrote:

You are such a BULL SHITTER Fencedude5609. dtm42 has outargued you, but your stubbornness and pride does not let you see that. It has become clearer that it is a complete waste of time to try to have a constructive discussion with you. Hate me if you want, but I do not think I am alone with this opinion.

Ok, do you have an actual opinion on that post, or did you just feel like injecting your personal opinion of me into a discussion you weren't even involved in?

Also, point out where dtm "outargued" me. Please, proceed.

No, I do not have an actual opinion because I have not watched Horizon yet. I am making an observation from following the back and fort between you and dtm42.

Or maybe it's because Horizon literally RUNS on Rule of Cool. Everything about it is cool. Horizon basically crams every single anime cliche into a blender and somehow became one of the most awesome shows in the recent years...and I'm only 6 episodes into the 1st season.

Says who? You? Tolkien? Why should I, or more importantly, Kawakami Minori, give a flying fudge about that? He's not writing LotR, he's not writing Wheel of Time, he's not writing any-other-damn-thing but his goddamn story.

You are the one laying down entirely arbitrary restrictions on creativity for no other reason than that "its always been done that way"

Sure, Tolkien "wrote the book" on fantasy, good for him. So [expletive] what? When was it decided that Tolkienian fantasy was the only acceptable form? Show me that clause in the contract people have to sign before being allowed to write. Oh wait, there is no such thing.

I really expected better from you dtm, I am, no kidding, incredibly disappointed in you here. You don't have to like Horizon, but I damn well expected you to defend it existing as a creative work. That you aren't, that you are actually arguing that there are distinct RULES as to what types of fictional characters can exist together...well, thats just shitty of you my friend.

This is the point where I ask precisely how much of Horizon you have seen and/or read.

angelmcazares wrote:

No, I do not have an actual opinion because I have not watched Horizon yet. I am making an observation from following the back and fort between you and dtm42.

So you agree with the side that says that deviations for the Tolkienian Fantasy Norm are inherently bad, and there is no reason for them to exist?

Glad we've established that!

i made popcorn, anybody want some?

Tolkien didn't create most of those creatures, if he created any at all. I'm pretty sure all or almost all of the creatures in his stories already existed and he decided to create a sprawling, epic fantasy story using at least a dozen different fantasy creatures. Why exactly is it "logical" for humans, dwarves, elves, dragons, wraiths and orcs to exist in the same work of fiction, but not humans, angel people, werewolves, incubi and slimes?

Whereas Horizon's cast is just a bunch of Anime tropes - some borrowed from other sources (like angels), some only appearing predominantly in Anime - thrown together in order to make more sales. It's a problem that afflicted the also-recently-aired Campione!.

I'm glad you recognise that he's writing a story. Given the way you were talking about characters living their lives I was afraid you were actually . . . you know what, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that Horizon was made to be popular, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it goes about it in the stupidest, cheapest way possible.

It would be really nice if you didn't ascribe to me things that I never even said or meant. I mean, you know how to use quotation marks properly, right?

Whereas an incubus has no business being in the same work as a robot, and an angel has no business sharing screentime with a racist Indian caricature.

I never said that everything has to be like Tolkien; way to miss the point. I was merely defending LotR's internally consistency while pointing out that Horizon has no internal consistency.

I'm not going to defend Horizon "as a creative work" because the only thing it does creatively is stuff a record (well, this is Anime we're talking about, so probably only near-record) amount of ill-fitting tropes together in a single badly-directed, badly-written show. If that bugs you then I'll send a bouquet as recompense. Are you still living at your old address of [email protected]?

This is the point where I direct you to my Anime list (not the website), while also asking you yet again to actually provide some explanation as to the backstory and how it justifies the trope pileup.

No, I NEVER SAID THAT, don't bullshit me, please.

angelmcazares wrote:

No, I NEVER SAID THAT, don't bullshit me, please.

You said that dtm was winning the argument, which implies you agree with the positions he's stated, and that was one of them.

I say that dtm42 is winning the argument because his/her arguments use logic. Whereas your arguments reduce to something like: why is there an eclectic mix of characters in Horizon? just because; do not [bleeping] question it.

Do not ask me to prove this because I doubt you will consider my arguments.